topic Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving in Community Spirit

Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

icyfroth — Fri, 29 May 2015 02:40:29 GMT

Leaders of an ultra-Orthodox Jewish sect in north London have said children who are driven to school by their mothers will be turned away at the school gates.

Rabbis from the marginal Hasidic sect Belz have told women in Stamford Hill who drive that they go against “the traditional rules of modesty in our camp”.

In a letter sent to parents last week, seen by the Jewish Chronicle, they say there has been an increase in the number of mothers driving their children to school and add that this has led to “great resentment among parents of pupils of our [Hasidic] institutions”.

The letter says the ban, to come into force in the summer, is based on the recommendations of Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rokeach, the Belzer spiritual leader in Israel.

It says that if a mother has no other choice but to drive her child to school – for medical reasons, for example – she should “submit a request to the special committee to this effect and the committee shall consider her request”.

The move has been met with some disagreement within the Orthodox community.

Dina Brawer, the UK ambassador of the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance, said: “What this is really about is the curtailing of women’s freedom of movement rendering them dependent on men. It’s an issue of power and control not one of religious sensibility.

The Belz, who originated in Ukraine in the early 18th century and established their headquarters in Israel after the second world war, are one of the most prominent Hasidic sects.

Entire Article Here

Sheesh. These ppl are still living in medieval customs, even though Israel has Hi-tech nuclear weapons. That's scary.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 03:03:55 GMT

Shades of Saudi Arabia etc .... the mind boggles!!

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

myoclon1cjerk — Fri, 29 May 2015 05:53:17 GMT

" Dina Brawer, the UK ambassador of the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance, said: “What this is really about is the curtailing of women’s freedom of movement rendering them dependent on men. It’s an issue of power and control..."

Isn't that what all religions are about?

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 05:57:27 GMT

"Isn't that what all religions are about?"

Couldn't agree with you more myoclon.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2015 07:37:27 GMT

What this is really about is the curtailing of women’s freedom of movement rendering them dependent on men. It’s an issue of power and control..."

"Isn't that what all religions are about?"

Couldn't agree with you more myoclon.

have you heard the saying -

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?

what do these women have in common?

i'll give you a clue -

they're all strong, independent women

and they are religious

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

zanadoo_56 — Fri, 29 May 2015 08:22:33 GMT

If I was one of these driving mothers I'd tell them to stick it and continue to take the kids to school by car.

And when they object I'd take the matter to court.

Who do these people think they are? This is another ridiculous rule typical of stupid men in authority who presumably feel threatened in some way. Utterly ludicrous.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 09:36:49 GMT

I've also heard the saying that a lot of experience and knowledge that comes with it becomes an excellent safety zone.

In my opinion I (and experience), some women may be strong and independent, but religion is not dependent on that , Women can be just as productive as leaders etc without it. Religion is the weakest link ....

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2015 10:57:44 GMT

i didn't say women cannot be productive

as leaders without religion.

you agreed with a generalization which

is clearly wrong since many, many women

say their faith is what empowered them

to be strong leaders.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 11:29:07 GMT

While many women say their faith is what empowers them, I'm sure they believe what they say for themselves is just that, a personal thing that they believe and are entitled to do so.

I don't speak for others, they can believe what they like of course. If that works for them, fine, but that doesn't make it factual for anyone else.

i didn't say women cannot be productive

as leaders without religion.

Neither did I ....

When the leadership of churches can and do tell women in particular what to do, how and when to do it, and what they can and cannot do though, and they obey that, it tells me just how weak and perverse, biased and ridiculous such religious systems are.

I don't agree with "generalisations" in what is being discussed here: clearly, there is room for demonstrable examples.

Listening to the Commission regarding the abuse of children from the various religions is revealing, and certainly one in particular, makes me feel sick and distressed. The lies, the contradictions, the sheer and horrific evidence coming forward now (out of the mouths of the so called priests and leaders) is enough to make me hope that there will come a time when "religions" are shut down forever.

If there is a God that has "made man in his image", what a dismal universal failure. What a farce.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:10:45 GMT

can we get back on topic now?

the op is about a small religious

group - a sect called the belz.

comparing it to mainstream religions

shows lack of understanding.

What this is really about is the curtailing of women’s freedom of movement rendering them dependent on men. It’s an issue of power and control..."

"Isn't that what all religions are about?"

no - and that is not an opinion.

its a fact.

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

and ignorance breeds intolerance.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:11:44 GMT

I don't see this as having anything to do with religion. This is a cultural issue.

Nothing in their religion says a woman can't drive a car.

If some nutcase of a religious leaders decides to create his own rules based on (mis)intepretation of his religion, then followers of that religion have the choice to go with it or create their own rules.

That's how most religions work.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

i-need-a-martini — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:16:16 GMT

I agree with you Julia. I think people outside religions are too quick to assume women are being forced to be submissive because of religion. This is rarely the case.

And even those religions that appear to treat women poorly often create amazing women. Malala is a good example.

Women submissiveness is nearly always cultural.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2015 12:18:21 GMT

Malala is a good example.

yes she is. i meant to include her in

my earlier post.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:31:18 GMT

In my opinion, it is all about religion.

It is religious in it's very nature given the whole topic and issue is about certain religion/religions that dictates, dominates and clearly demands women (in this case) to be oppressed and ordered to do what they are told whether they like it or not.

I don't want, expect or need anyone to agree with me .....

Cultures and religion in many countries are juxtaposed; seemingly inseparable, so that is enough for me to understand why and how those societies function that way, sadly.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:36:00 GMT

I'll stay with my post at 6441, sorry Martini.

Visit Saudi Arabia and see how that works for women (just as one example). It is both cultural and religious as I see it, but again, when you work and live in one of those countries, like I once did, the reality is quite different (and frightening) to what some think about it through rose coloured glasses and from a safe distance.

I do know how religion works, and how certain cultures work as a part of it.

Thankfully, so far, a democracy works quite differently, not always successfully, but with a lot more freedom.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:42:51 GMT

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

and ignorance breeds intolerance

Yes, I do agree with that, and it works both ways ...

Malala is a fabulous example of what someone can do when they are brave enough to speak out. The price of it though is what she has suffered. Many women hold dear to her opinions, so do I.

There are very few who can do that though, as many women are tightly bound by fear pertaining to the rules of their own religion and menfolk who have not come to grips with the fact that women should have the rights and freedoms that they do within their own cultures/religion, no matter what that society or church/religion or where.

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

tasfleur — Fri, 29 May 2015 13:59:57 GMT

Nothing in their religion says a woman can't drive a car.

That's exactly right Martini, but just to clarify, it's the religious leaders, using Saudi Arabia as one example, where those (religious) leaders hold all the power to restrict and take away an awful lot of rights that women are entitled to, the same as men. Of course, it's not in their holy books, neither is the rubbish that women are oppressed by in the christian bible either in different religions, but still, they are ruled that way, but that is a different story, one of weakness of mind as far as I'm concerned.

Unfortunately, depending where you are, followers of that religion don't have the choice to create their own rules. To go against those rules can mean execution, whippings, floggings, beatings and other punishments you could not even start to imagine.

That's how most religions work

That's how some religions work, it depends where you live, who you are dominated by within that religion/culture, and what gender you are, which makes it worse.

No more to say on the matter, but thank you for the input, we obviously are not going to agree, but then we don't have to xxx

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

softail-joanie — Fri, 29 May 2015 15:36:54 GMT

Sammy Hagar - I Can't Drive 55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvV3nn_de2k

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

myoclon1cjerk — Fri, 29 May 2015 15:52:49 GMT

And now for some good news.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/comments/

Re: Religious Sect Tells Mothers To Stop Driving

softail-joanie — Fri, 29 May 2015 16:08:49 GMT

Can't take God away- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSzi2jq_u_Y