topic Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON. in Community Spirit

VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

daily.reporter — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 02:52:31 GMT

For many of us, we remember the events and happenings of the Major Conflict that we know today as The Vietnam War.

This was the first time that actual War Footage came into our Lounges via the square box with 4 legs on it, called the Television.

What many of us saw and had etched into our minds and memory banks was the sheer force of actual conflict being presented by both friend & foe. The senseless taking of life in not only Military Terms, but also Civilian Terms, was also unaccountable.

Peoples very lives, villages, homes, and families destroyed, and devastated, never to return to previous days.

Was it a War that we as Australians should have been involved in ?

Very easy for those who were not called up via Conscription, or were already Serving in the Australian Armed Forces.

Let us Remember three Main Points here:

1. Australia's involvement in the Vietnam Conflict was NOT VOTED ON BY PARLIAMENT as was required by e Constitution. Notice l termed it a Conflict & not a War. At no time did we declare War on North Vietnam.

The Serving Men & Women of the Australian Defence Force, are AT ALL TIMES UNDER ORDERS OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.

There were many Serving Personnel that did not agree that we should have been involved in the Conflict, but were Duty Bound by the Constitution of their Country to obey the call for request by the Republic of South Vietnam for "assistance". This call

also echoed by the United States of America.

2. The Decision to Send "Assistance" Military wise, was not Voted on, but was a decision made by the Prime Minister at the time Harold Holt, PM and after his "Death", the next Prime Minister Robert Menzies, PM, with the support verbally of the Opposition Party,The Liberal Party.

3. The "Losers" in any War or Conflict are always the Civilian People, always have been through History, and always

wil be in any conflict, as we see today on our Teevision screens.l

Yes, we "Lost" many fine young Australian's to a conflict that today seems so far away, yet,should never be forgotten.

Whether "we" should have been there at all, was not decided by the Australian People, as it should have, but we were there, with Valour, Pride, & Distinction.

Was l asked if l "wanted" to be sent to a fair away place, meet interesting people's, and destroy them ? NO, but l went

and Served as l was Commanded to by my Commander, The Chief, of The Royal Australian Army. I obeyed, l served, and by the Grace of God, l was able to Return Home, even though Physically & Mentally Wounded to this Day. All War is Hell.

As we would often make comment, at the time, "Bloody ell mate, cannot remember the last time l saw a North Vietnamese

plane Bomb Australia." Point Taken.

50 Years may have gone by, but the pain, memory,suffering and reflections of the time, will never GO AWAY.

IN MEMORY OF ALL WHO HAVE SERVED AND GAVE THEIR ALL, IN THEIR SUPREME SACRIFICE. RIP. "Diggers"

Dale Dibble - The News & All The News.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

myoclon1cjerk — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 03:08:56 GMT

A series of negotiations took place between Australian, American and Vietnamese representatives to secure acceptance of the Australian troops. The South Vietnamese government and the American ambassador in Saigon, Maxwell Taylor, were initially reluctant to receive more foreign troops. It seemed that the necessary South Vietnamese invitation wasn’t going to be forthcoming.
Fortunately for Menzies, the South Vietnamese government was persuaded to accept the Australian offer. A formal request was given just before Menzies made his speech in Parliament.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

polly.the.cat — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 05:33:18 GMT

@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
A series of negotiations took place between Australian, American and Vietnamese representatives to secure acceptance of the Australian troops. The South Vietnamese government and the American ambassador in Saigon, Maxwell Taylor, were initially reluctant to receive more foreign troops. It seemed that the necessary South Vietnamese invitation wasn’t going to be forthcoming.
Fortunately for Menzies, the South Vietnamese government was persuaded to accept the Australian offer. A formal request was given just before Menzies made his speech in Parliament.

Yes, l remember it well, the State by State newspapers were alive with " Troops to Vietnam"

and "We are on our Way"

Exciting times to take us our of Kings Cross & Redfurn, and off the Streets of Sydney Town.

Did you serve ?

We were doing Perimeter Security for the huge US Airforce Base at Bien Hoa.

Sadly there have been many other Military Involvements since this time, and looks like no lessening of them coming in the now and future.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 06:25:42 GMT

You have your Prime Ministers a bit wrong.....Menzies was PM up to 1966 when he retired. Holt was the next PM...they were both Liberals. It was Holt who "went all the way with LBJ" which was why LBJ came to Australia for his Memorial Service. The Americans wanted to keep us on side.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

daily.reporter — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 06:53:35 GMT

Sorry lyndal1838, l knew it was one of those "buggers" than gave us the Flight Ticket on TAA from Mascot, was just not sure which one.

That is right one drowned, and the other used to be called"Pig Iron Bob", selling most of our scrap metal to Japan in the 1930's, as the Unions said at the time, "It'll come back to us". and it sure did.
Sydney & Darwin. Pig Headed Bob from "Japaret" Victoria.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

myoclon1cjerk — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 07:13:00 GMT

My contribution to this thread was to highlight the fact that Menzies really wasn't asked for help.As you can see, the request was made after the leadership of South Vietmam was convinced to ask for assistance i.e they probably had arms twisted.Nice of Mr Menzies to sacrifice Australian lives to suit his agenda.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

Anonymous — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 07:16:28 GMT

My contribution to this thread

your? contribution?

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 07:28:21 GMT

You were lucky to go by plane.....pity the poor troops who went up on the HMAS Sydney...most of them were seasick.

I remember the events of that time very well. I was interested in the politics of the day as I had just turned 21 and was elegible to vote for the first time. I also married a sailor in 1966. He was serving on one of the Destroyer Escorts that accompanied the Sydney into Vietnam on her first trip with equipment. He later made another trip as crew on the Sydney...they used to delight in tipping the soldiers out of their hammocks when they went on watch. And a further trip on another DE.

In 1967 we were living on the Naval Base in Canberra when Holt went missing. By the time it was announced that LBJ was coming for the Memorial Service he had already landed at Fairburn RAAF base....my husband was responsible for the communications links to Air Force 1.

Eventful times!!!

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

myoclon1cjerk — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 08:54:58 GMT

What's wrong,Julia.An aversion to the truth?

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

daily.reporter — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 09:52:16 GMT

So we both speak of the same times, your times that you have lived through are incredible, you would be a very interesting person to converse with. Yes, all the way with LBJ on TAA.

Uncle Reg also took Troops in his Aircraft. Seats were more comfortable, so l was told. Flight Hosties, were more friendly. Thanks.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

Anonymous — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 09:57:19 GMT

@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
What's wrong,Julia.An aversion to the truth?

no, i just don't think you wrote it.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

tezza2844 — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 10:02:09 GMT

The Decision to Send "Assistance" Military wise, was not Voted on,

but was a decision made by the Prime Minister at the time Harold Holt, PM

and after his "Death", the next Prime Minister Robert Menzies, PM,

with the support verbally of the Opposition Party,The Liberal Party.

Now that is what I call rewriting history

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:36:32 GMT

Already pointed out and sorted tezza.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

j*oono — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:52:10 GMT

@*julia*2010 wrote:
@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
What's wrong,Julia.An aversion to the truth?
no, i just don't think you wrote it.

No, but he contributed it to this thread. Seriously?

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:07:16 GMT

As a former American veteran, I want to take this opportunity to thank the Australians who sacrificed their lives in the Vietnam conflict.

I wonder how much being a member of SEATO influenced the decision to participate?

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

polly.the.cat — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:17:09 GMT

@this-one-time-at-bandcamp wrote:
As a former American veteran, I want to take this opportunity to thank the Australians who sacrificed their lives in the Vietnam conflict.

I wonder how much being a member of SEATO influenced the decision to participate?

You are Welcome mate, ....and we Remember with Respect the huge price paid by your fellow countrymen/women to the Conflict in the South East Asian Republic of South Vietnam.

A War/Conflict that was as unpopular in the USA, as it was here.

Not withstanding that, our Troops went as Requested, Served, Died, were Wounded, and some were to become the group known as the MIA POW, never to return to their home country again. They paid the Supreme Sacrifice as well.

Most of the younger generation have little or no idea of the times or events that led up to this terrible war/conflict, seeing the nice Travel Advertisement's to go to Vietnam now, ....and how could our Countries invade such a beautiful country and people ?

History does not always portray the real account and actual facts we who were there went through. Sadly many are left with the mental scars of the event.

RIP Mates

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

polly.the.cat — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:32:03 GMT

@tezza2844 wrote:

The Decision to Send "Assistance" Military wise, was not Voted on,

but was a decision made by the Prime Minister at the time Harold Holt, PM

and after his "Death", the next Prime Minister Robert Menzies, PM,

with the support verbally of the Opposition Party,The Liberal Party.

Now that is what I call rewriting history

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Hey "wally", he was not rewriting History, he just got confused which Australian Prime Minister was in power at the time. No big DEAL, ...it was still our Prime Minister that sent us to an "UnOfficial War" that was the op's main point.

Did YOU serve ? Or were you one of the ones who threw Red Paint over us as we marched down George St, in Sydney ?

Maybe you liked the colour Yellow better ?

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

bluecat*dancing — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 01:08:48 GMT

The first demonstration that I went to, at the ripe old age of 12, was an anti-Vietnam one. It was huge.

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

tezza2844 — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 01:17:32 GMT

@old.corner.shop wrote:
@tezza2844 wrote:

The Decision to Send "Assistance" Military wise, was not Voted on,

but was a decision made by the Prime Minister at the time Harold Holt, PM

and after his "Death", the next Prime Minister Robert Menzies, PM,

with the support verbally of the Opposition Party,The Liberal Party.

Now that is what I call rewriting history
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey "wally", he was not rewriting History, he just got confused which Australian Prime Minister was in power at the time. No big DEAL, ...it was still our Prime Minister that sent us to an "UnOfficial War" that was the op's main point.
Did YOU serve ? Or were you one of the ones who threw Red Paint over us as we marched down George St, in Sydney ?
Maybe you liked the colour Yellow better ?

Correcting mistakes has not been a crime as far as I know. There have been other posters pointing this as well. It was Menzies that sent our troops into Vietnam, there was no vote in parliament just as it was with Menzies for WW2, it was Holt who went all the way with LBJ and the opposition at the time was the Labor Party.

"The Australian Labor Party (ALP)

The ALP opposed the commitment of troops to Vietnam, but it was difficult to form a distinct policy for a party that was widely split over many issues. Labor leader Arthur Calwell had the unenviable job of responding to the government in parliament. While opposing the War, he could not be seen to be anti-American or unpatriotic. Calwell supported the ideas of the British and Canadian governments, who encouraged the United States to enter negotiations with North Vietnam.

The Labor Party saw the war as essentially civil, in which Australia should not get involved. Calwell and the Labor Party supported the Australian troops and did not deny them the support they needed. As the war drew on, the Labor Party was pushed into a firmer anti-war stance by the Liberal Party, which knew that an anti-war stance would win little support for the Labour Party. Calwell maintained that Labor supported the troops, but Labor's anti-war leanings were unpopular with many people. In 1966 Calwell was shot, but not killed, after attending an anti-Vietnam rally in Sydney."

In answer to your other questions No, No and No. and my name isn't wally

Your accusations remind me of the saying empty ships make most noise

Re: VIETNAM WAR 50 YEARS ON.

this-one-time-at-bandcamp — Sun, 23 Aug 2015 01:25:27 GMT

.and how could our Countries invade such a beautiful country and people ?

As a matter of fact, US advisors were requested by the then government of South Vietnam........there was no invasion, unless you're referring to North Vietnam's incursions across the DMZ.