topic Re: Third-wave feminism in Community Spirit

Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 23:13:59 GMT

What has happened to this movement and ideology? Is it sexist to expect teen girls to behave like ladies and boys like men? Why are some girls picking fights with boys in the school yard, literally pushing and shoving and taunting like "C'mon have a go, you wanna fight" and doing this day after day and if the boy reacts in anyway he is labelled a girl basher, even when it's the girl that throws the first or only punch... And men, why so many feminine men these days? And with movements like MGTOW (Men going their own way), which has spawned in retalliation to thrid-wave feminism, are we witnessing the destruction of society as we know it?

Re: Third-wave feminism

***super_nova*** — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 23:24:57 GMT

What a lot of garbage to blame all on feminism.

Agression/ bullying is always wrong, and if any kid is behaving that way they need to be dealt with. That men do not feel the need to try to be macho is a good thing. What exactly means "girls behaving like ladies and men like man"? I wish we would all behave in decent human way towards each other.

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 23:39:50 GMT

I'm really not blaming all of feminism. I'm talking the more modern version of feminism which is absolutely destroying all the greatness the original feminism was about. Girls picking fights with boys is definately not behaving like a lady. And boys who dress in girls clothing and wear makeup are definately not behaving like men. MGTOW men who openly express their distaste and disrespect for women and relationships is not acting like a man. I'm not saying all men need to be macho (or hetro, or cisgendered etc). But it's movements like these that are killing the mutual respect men should have for women and women, men...

Re: Third-wave feminism

electric*mayhem*band — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 00:00:53 GMT

' Why are some girls picking fights with boys in the school yard, literally pushing and shoving and taunting like "C'mon have a go, you wanna fight" '

Blame the 'Ladette Culture' of the naughty ninties. (If you want to lay blame).

' And men, why so many feminine men these days? '

Blame the 'Glam Rock' era of the seventies. (If you want to lay blame).

Re: Third-wave feminism

***super_nova*** — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 00:07:48 GMT

@3ksandpj wrote:
I'm really not blaming all of feminism. I'm talking the more modern version of feminism which is absolutely destroying all the greatness the original feminism was about. Girls picking fights with boys is definately not behaving like a lady. And boys who dress in girls clothing and wear makeup are definately not behaving like men. MGTOW men who openly express their distaste and disrespect for women and relationships is not acting like a man. I'm not saying all men need to be macho (or hetro, or cisgendered etc). But it's movements like these that are killing the mutual respect men should have for women and women, men...

NONE of this has anything to do with feminism. That is just people behaving badly. Kid picking up fight, regardless of gender, is wrong. MGTOW men are just bunch of losers.

Re: Third-wave feminism

the_great_she_elephant — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 02:26:11 GMT

And boys who dress in girls clothing and wear makeup are definately not behaving like men.

What about girls who wear leathers and ride motorbikes?

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:34:56 GMT

@***super_nova*** wrote:
@3ksandpj wrote:
I'm really not blaming all of feminism. I'm talking the more modern version of feminism which is absolutely destroying all the greatness the original feminism was about. Girls picking fights with boys is definately not behaving like a lady. And boys who dress in girls clothing and wear makeup are definately not behaving like men. MGTOW men who openly express their distaste and disrespect for women and relationships is not acting like a man. I'm not saying all men need to be macho (or hetro, or cisgendered etc). But it's movements like these that are killing the mutual respect men should have for women and women, men...
NONE of this has anything to do with feminism. That is just people behaving badly. Kid picking up fight, regardless of gender, is wrong. MGTOW men are just bunch of losers.

This new "breed" of feminists aren't about equal oppertunity and burning the bra anymore, it's about the idea of not conforming to traditional gender roles and expectations. What is wrong with girls being lady like? Women with children being "mothers" "carers" and men being "fathers" or "protectors/providers"

It's not about kids picking fights, it's about jaded yound women who are taking full advantage of the double standards that men cant hit women no matter what, they are abusing their rights and getting away with blatant bullying.

You can say that about the MGTOW men and thats okay because they are men. If i called the modern feminists a bunch of losers though, I'm sure someone will take offence...

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:39:15 GMT

@electric*mayhem*band wrote:
' Why are some girls picking fights with boys in the school yard, literally pushing and shoving and taunting like "C'mon have a go, you wanna fight" '

Blame the 'Ladette Culture' of the naughty ninties. (If you want to lay blame).

' And men, why so many feminine men these days? '

Blame the 'Glam Rock' era of the seventies. (If you want to lay blame).

Hah, not a bad theory. And I'm sure it's played a part.

It's not that I want to lay blame. I just see alot of confused kids these days because of the "anything goes" ideology of our liberal system. I do understand that the traditional roles aren't suitable for everyone, but degeneration in society is occuring right before my eyes and kids are suffering because there are no boundaries anymore...

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:58:36 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
And boys who dress in girls clothing and wear makeup are definately not behaving like men.

What about girls who wear leathers and ride motorbikes?

For some reason Suzi Quatro springs to mind after reading that comment. She knew how to wear leathers 🙂

I think you are being on purposely contentious. Which is fine but you need to use a more attractive lure or some juicier worms to attract this little fishy 😉

I'm not having a go at the LTBTQI community either. Because it's the hetro males that I have a problem with. The amount of men that get raped these days according to reports is phenomenal. Men getting raped by women... Does that not seem odd to you?

Re: Third-wave feminism

myoclon1cjerk — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 19:53:03 GMT

Some people have all the luck 😄

Re: Third-wave feminism

***super_nova*** — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 00:43:39 GMT

@3ksandpj wrote:
What is wrong with girls being lady like? Women with children being "mothers" "carers" and men being "fathers" or "protectors/providers"

Maybe you should ask the men who walk out on their families, move assets and do not pay maintenance, leaving the women to bring up their kids in poverty.

As for the rest, as I said it has nothing to do with feminism. Feminists are still striving for the same = EQUALITY. What is staggering is the gullibility of people believing that there are hordes of women out there raping men. The statistics on rape of men include rape of straight man by another man, and consensual intercourse between adult woman and underage boy.

Re: Third-wave feminism

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 02:55:10 GMT

The amount of men that get raped these days according to reports is phenomenal. Men getting raped by women... Does that not seem odd to you?

Yes, men do get raped - though not nearly as many as women - yes, male rape is underreported because males are less likely than women to report assaults. and yes, there are documented cases of men being sexually assaulted by women, but to suggest the number is 'phenonenal' is absurd.

And even a cursory glance at statistics (via Google) will show you that in an overwhelming majority of male rape cases the perpetrator is another male.

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 05:10:23 GMT

@***super_nova*** wrote:
@3ksandpj wrote:
What is wrong with girls being lady like? Women with children being "mothers" "carers" and men being "fathers" or "protectors/providers"

Maybe you should ask the men who walk out on their families, move assets and do not pay maintenance, leaving the women to bring up their kids in poverty.

As for the rest, as I said it has nothing to do with feminism. Feminists are still striving for the same = EQUALITY. What is staggering is the gullibility of people believing that there are hordes of women out there raping men. The statistics on rape of men include rape of straight man by another man, and consensual intercourse between adult woman and underage boy.

Can you please give me some examples of inequality that is happening now.

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 05:24:10 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
The amount of men that get raped these days according to reports is phenomenal. Men getting raped by women... Does that not seem odd to you?

Yes, men do get raped - though not nearly as many as women - yes, male rape is underreported because males are less likely than women to report assaults. and yes, there are documented cases of men being sexually assaulted by women, but to suggest the number is 'phenonenal' is absurd.
And even a cursory glance at statistics (via Google) will show you that in an overwhelming majority of male rape cases the perpetrator is another male.

True, phenomenal was an over exaggeration. Still 6% of male rapes being committed by females is still quite alot, and all sexual violence is grossly underreported in general. So it could very well be more than that...

Re: Third-wave feminism

***super_nova*** — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 05:59:15 GMT

@3ksandpj wrote:
Can you please give me some examples of inequality that is happening now.

There is heaps of inequality all around the world. But even in Australia, university graduates getting their 1st job and comparing people with equal results from equal course, women's pay is substantially less. This is government stats for gender pay gap, which is growing:

https://www.wgea.gov.au/sites/default/files/Gender_Pay_Gap_Factsheet.pdf

https://www.wgea.gov.au/news-and-media/national-gender-pay-gap-record-high-188

Re: Third-wave feminism

***super_nova*** — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:30:59 GMT

@3ksandpj wrote:
Still 6% of male rapes being committed by females is still quite alot, and all sexual violence is grossly underreported in general. So it could very well be more than that...

Are these figures for convictions or reports? What are you saying is that when out of 100 cases of sexual attack 94 are on women and 6 are on men, yet somehow that the attacks on men " is a lot"? Especially, considering that the most likely conviction of a woman is for having sex with younger boy. While most rape convictions of men include serious, often permanent, injury to the woman.

Re: Third-wave feminism

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 07:37:45 GMT

What is wrong with girls being lady like? Women with children being "mothers" "carers" and men being "fathers" or "protectors/providers"

Protectors; providers. There are one or two fundamental problems with that concept

From what or whom does the modern Australian woman need protecting by her menfolk: man eating wombats, rampaging kangaroos, or could it be other men?

And if protection is the man’s role, then whose role is it to protect the family while he away doing the ‘providing’

Now let’s consider the ‘man as provider’ scenario. This is not traditional – it is simply a status symbol that came in with the rise of the middle class. It was in great part the ill paid labour of female mill workers, factory workers, domestic servants, dressmakers etc. that allowed the nouveau riche to flaunt their non-working wives as a symbol of their affluence; with the result that being able to ‘keep’ a wife and family on a single wage became a goal for those aspiring to upward mobility.

In rural areas women have always worked alongside their men (shepherdesses and milk maids are not figments of the imagination of costume shop owners). The men may have owned the farms and managed the livestock but it was usually their wives who kept the chooks, made the butter and cheese and took the produce to market – on top of running the home and caring for the children.

When we think about the provision of food in the very earliest societies we tend to picture a group of young men armed with spears tracking and killing an animal which they then carry home in triumph to their waiting womenfolk. There is a reason, though, why these people are described as ‘hunter/gatherers?

We have no way of knowing what the division of labour was, and is probable that the men did most of the hunting – they were physically stronger and, biologically, more expendable, but is also probable that the women did most of the gathering, together with the carrying and preparing of whatever they gathered and it is almost certain that what they provided constituted a larger part of the staple diet than the meat provided by the hunters.

So it would appear that, from as far back as the Stone Age, women, equally with men, have always been both protectors and providers for their families

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:46:31 GMT

@***super_nova*** wrote:
@3ksandpj wrote:
Still 6% of male rapes being committed by females is still quite alot, and all sexual violence is grossly underreported in general. So it could very well be more than that...

Are these figures for convictions or reports? What are you saying is that when out of 100 cases of sexual attack 94 are on women and 6 are on men, yet somehow that the attacks on men " is a lot"? Especially, considering that the most likely conviction of a woman is for having sex with younger boy. While most rape convictions of men include serious, often permanent, injury to the woman.

Nah out of the total male rapes 94. something % are done by other males the rest by females...

Re: Third-wave feminism

morgana2408 — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:57:57 GMT

something %. Can you provide a link for the information.

Re: Third-wave feminism

k0llectable5 — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:10:10 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
What is wrong with girls being lady like? Women with children being "mothers" "carers" and men being "fathers" or "protectors/providers"

Protectors; providers. There are one or two fundamental problems with that concept

From what or whom does the modern Australian woman need protecting by her menfolk: man eating wombats, rampaging kangaroos, or could it be other men?

And if protection is the man’s role, then whose role is it to protect the family while he away doing the ‘providing’

Now let’s consider the ‘man as provider’ scenario. This is not traditional – it is simply a status symbol that came in with the rise of the middle class. It was in great part the ill paid labour of female mill workers, factory workers, domestic servants, dressmakers etc. that allowed the nouveau riche to flaunt their non-working wives as a symbol of their affluence; with the result that being able to ‘keep’ a wife and family on a single wage became a goal for those aspiring to upward mobility.

In rural areas women have always worked alongside their men (shepherdesses and milk maids are not figments of the imagination of costume shop owners). The men may have owned the farms and managed the livestock but it was usually their wives who kept the chooks, made the butter and cheese and took the produce to market – on top of running the home and caring for the children.

When we think about the provision of food in the very earliest societies we tend to picture a group of young men armed with spears tracking and killing an animal which they then carry home in triumph to their waiting womenfolk. There is a reason, though, why these people are described as ‘hunter/gatherers?
We have no way of knowing what the division of labour was, and is probable that the men did most of the hunting – they were physically stronger and, biologically, more expendable, but is also probable that the women did most of the gathering, together with the carrying and preparing of whatever they gathered and it is almost certain that what they provided constituted a larger part of the staple diet than the meat provided by the hunters.

So it would appear that, from as far back as the Stone Age, women, equally with men, have always been both protectors and providers for their families

Totally agree She-ele. Of course women and men both can change their roles in providing, protecting, caring etc. I'm not so black and white that I think that it's sole the job of one or the other. When raising a family traditional gender roles are important imo. It's for the good of the whole society. I know it's not for everyone, some people never want to have children, thats their choice. It's not up to feminism to dictate how people ought to conform though. Theres no shame in a woman being a mum and a man being a dad, in the traditional sense of the word...