topic Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too! in Community Spirit

Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

davidc4430 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:26:09 GMT

Harvey Weinstein: Gwyneth Paltrow, Angelina Jolie join flood of allegations; Hillary Clinton 'appalled'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-11/harvey-weinstein-gwyneth-paltrow-angelina-jolie-speak-out/9036992

What is it with women?

NOW your saying all these things about the guy?

Where were you before the S**T hit the fan?

not saying hes not a creep, just i hate when AFTER someone gets outed then they come out of the woodwork saying "yes, i know hes a really bad man"

its like Bill Cosby and Rolf Harris all over again.

any "STAR" who now comes out and says they knew of this guys sexual power trips before he was sacked and it hit the the front pages has no credibility IMO!

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

not_for_sale — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:54:27 GMT

I imagine that's why men like him get away with it for so long. They use their power to abuse these women in knowing they would be unlikely to do anything because of the consequences to their career. I think it's called workplace bullying and sexual harassment. Then some brave woman says enough is enough and speaks up. This motivates other victims to speak up too, but their credibility is questioned because it's after the event. I guess being a victim has rules, despite the intimidation, pain and trauma, and your credibility will be questioned if you don't follow those rules on time!

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

springyzone — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 22:08:23 GMT

Sexual abuse can be an embarrassing thing but from the report, I would say it sometimes was more sexual harrassment-trying to persuade some women to go to his room. That might be unwelcome attention but not a crime. A lot of youger women get slight 'accidental' touches on breasts and backside from time to time too. I'd say a lot of men know how to be a little offensive without taking it to the level where they are likely to get charged. Although probably a lot of them are a little more careful now because sexual harrassment is the crime under the spotlight these days.

If it happens to a woman-How far to take it? Depends on the level of assault but I would say it was common for nothing much to happen in the past. However, rape definitely is a crime.

I know the man was sacked but what i would like to ask is what of the 16 executives who were well aware of his conduct and are still working for the company?

Remember all the scandal about Catholic priests, where other priests who did nothing wrong themselves sometimes moved troublesome priests on rather than go to the police about reports? And all the outrage that sparked on media?

But when it comes to outrage when the same thing happens within the media circles itself, that outrage almost always melts like snow in summer. If it is there at all.

Plenty of personalities came out after Rolf Harris was accused and said it was well known what he was like. Did any of them face charges for not reporting anything to police? No, the media didn't even chastise them.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

davidc4430 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 23:08:51 GMT

in a lot of situations i know coming forward to expose creeps can be very difficult,

but in this instance we are seeing very high profile actresses comming out making statements.

paltrow, jolie, streep and others are not struggling artists and are not unknown to be very outspoken on just about everything. i just dont buy the 'they were too frightened' to come forward.

if they knew of this guys bad behaviour they should have been leading the charge not jumping on the bandwagon now.

if only they were saying 'we had no idea' of his filthy ways with up and comming girls in the business or we would have spoken out.

but no, they are recounting stories of how they knew about what he was doing.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

womblewa — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:11:05 GMT

Other people making judgements about them, the victims, is pretty much STILL the reason why women didn't speak up and still don't when things like this happen to them.

Am hardly ever moved on these forums to comment, but I think your comments David perfectly elucidate WHY women have found strength in numbers, and have come forward now, not before.

Doesn't matter who you are, how much of a star you are (or not) - telling others that this happened is recognition of your vulnerability - and noone amongst us really copes well with feeling vulnerable.

I know you are moved to comment on all sorts of trivia on here David, but this is not trivia, never will be, and this still happens to women (and men I guess), all over the world - with the same outcome for years, if not for ever often - silence. Perfectly understandable IMO.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:36:09 GMT

They weren't high profile stars when the abuse occurred, they were young and vulnerable actresses who knew damn well that if they complained they'd be laughed at, told to 'get over it', acquire a reputation for being 'difficult' andquite possibly never get offered another role

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

bsal6160 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:16:30 GMT

so you saying they were only worried about the career not the fact that they were sexually assulted? they should should have reported him as soon as it happened. NO EXCUSES.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

johcaschro — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:31:22 GMT

@bsal6160 wrote:
so you saying they were only worried about the career not the fact that they were sexually assulted? they should should have reported him as soon as it happened. NO EXCUSES.

And then? The young woman aspiring to a career in movies never works again? and nothing happens to the accused anyway because he is a big shot in Hollywood and the accuser is some nobody who is just trying to attract attention?

Put yourself in their place for a moment. What would you do? Honestly?

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:27:29 GMT

@bsal6160 wrote:
so you saying they were only worried about the career not the fact that they were sexually assulted? they should should have reported him as soon as it happened. NO EXCUSES.

I also said they feared they would simply be laughed at and told to 'get over it'. You only have to recall Donald Trump's 'grab 'em by the **bleep**' locker commnt to know how young women (were) and often still are treated in the entertainment industry.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

springyzone — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:01:40 GMT

It depends on the level of assault. I forget who it was in the report now but one woman did confront him in a sting operation and asked why did he touch her breasts & although he admitted it & kept asking her to go with him, there was not enough on the recording to charge him with anything.

In other words, he was a sleaze but convicting him of more than that was difficult.

Paltrow says he tried to talk her into giving him a massage in his room. Again, not a crime.

The feeling I am getting from some of these actresses is that they found him sleazy and trying to use his position to harrass them a bit but he didn't necessarily attack or force them into anything.

The ones I would most question are those who say he forced oral sex on them or forced them to perform it. Why would they not go to the police? By 1999 & 2004, the media was already in full flight over sexual predators so there was no reason for them to doubt charges could have been laid.

So the question in my mind is did he actually 'force' it or did he strongly pester them & they felt they needed to give in to further their career? If so then it doesn't change the sleaze factor but they have to shoulder some of the blame for not sticking to the 'no' word. If physical force was involved, different story but they should have gone to the police.

Jolie does not say what her bad experience was but it was enough for her to 'warn others' not to work with him. But we won't see the media demanding or asking why she didn't do more. So in that much I agree with you david, some of them knew, and certainly a lot of executives knew but went into damage control. But will they get a please explain? I doubt it.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

johcaschro — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:18:10 GMT

. . . "So the question in my mind is did he actually 'force' it or did he strongly pester them & they felt they needed to give in to further their career? If so then it doesn't change the sleaze factor but they have to shoulder some of the blame for not sticking to the 'no' word. If physical force was involved, different story but they should have gone to the police. . . ."

It's not so much a question of furthering their career as it is ensuring that they have any future at all in their chosen career.

These are/were younger, aspiring women, vulnerable to exploitation and not powerful, secure-in-their-established-career women.

Forced or convinced? Maybe he made them an offer which they felt they couldn't afford to refuse?

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:37:18 GMT

There is also a srong possibility that they were conditioned to believe it was normal for the industry and just something that was expected of them

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

lyndal1838 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:44:12 GMT

@bsal6160 wrote:
so you saying they were only worried about the career not the fact that they were sexually assulted? they should should have reported him as soon as it happened. NO EXCUSES.

And would you say the same thing to the mature men and women who are just now coming forward to complain about the abuse suffered at the hands of priests and staff in childrens homes and orphanages?

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

not_for_sale — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 14:39:57 GMT

Sexual harassment in any form is unacceptable. But when the villain is a person with great power and influence, the intent is seldom only about sex, it is also an attempt to gain power over victims. The victims often experience high levels of trauma, fear and feel unempowered. That is hardly a state to be in when bravery is required to take on the perpetrator.

It's all too easy to say what the alleged victims should or should not have done when we don't really know what they went through. IMO it's good that people in the industry are uniting to condemn this treatment of women. Now his victims may feel it is safe to open up about the truth, given he has been exposed and they have growing support.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

springyzone — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 04:26:48 GMT

@not_for_sale2017 wrote:
Sexual harassment in any form is unacceptable. But when the villain is a person with great power and influence, the intent is seldom only about sex, it is also an attempt to gain power over victims. The victims often experience high levels of trauma, fear and feel unempowered. That is hardly a state to be in when bravery is required to take on the perpetrator.

It's all too easy to say what the alleged victims should or should not have done when we don't really know what they went through. IMO it's good that people in the industry are uniting to condemn this treatment of women. Now his victims may feel it is safe to open up about the truth, given he has been exposed and they have growing support.

I totally agree that sexual harrassment is unacceptable. I also suspect the perpetrators probably sum up their victims to some extent to work out exactly what they can get away with. A strong, loudly spoken extroverted woman might not be put under the same pressure.

I'm not so sure people in the film/media industry are uniting to condemn this treatment of women. Well, they are to some extent. But if you compare it to the cases of paedophile priests, even the innocent priests are being condemned if they had any knowledge it was happening & did not go to the police but just moved the offender on.

Compare that to all the 16 executives in this company and countless others in the media who were very well aware of this man's behaviour & the behaviour of the likes of Rolf Harris & the Uk's Jimmy Savile. Sure, those entertainers have been condemned but where is the spotlight on all those who admitted knowing about it but saying nothing?

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

not_for_sale — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 04:50:49 GMT

@springyzone wrote:

I totally agree that sexual harrassment is unacceptable. I also suspect the perpetrators probably sum up their victims to some extent to work out exactly what they can get away with. A strong, loudly spoken extroverted woman might not be put under the same pressure.
I'm not so sure people in the film/media industry are uniting to condemn this treatment of women. Well, they are to some extent. But if you compare it to the cases of paedophile priests, even the innocent priests are being condemned if they had any knowledge it was happening & did not go to the police but just moved the offender on.
Compare that to all the 16 executives in this company and countless others in the media who were very well aware of this man's behaviour & the behaviour of the likes of Rolf Harris & the Uk's Jimmy Savile. Sure, those entertainers have been condemned but where is the spotlight on all those who admitted knowing about it but saying nothing?

Actually, I agree with you. I'm already feeling differently about some of the people, especially the males, who apparently suspected he was harassing or abusing women. As time goes by they may be held to account too. But I hope there is not too much distraction from the perpetrator and the actual victims.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

bsal6160 — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:10:46 GMT

that would be a big YES lyndal

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

davidc4430 — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:30:21 GMT

my argument or position isnt that so many stayed silent, its that now people with power in hollywood are suddenly finding voice.

the actresses and actors and executives who are now coming our saying they either knew of this creeps actions or were victims.

we are hearing from very high profile women who in the past have not been frightened to have their say on many many subjects, who are now saying 'oh yes he did the same to me'

i completely understand anyone at the time fearing if they spoke out their carreer would be over.

but if you had knowledge of his antics and you were in the future a big star why not do something to 'out' him and his like?

start a 'lets rid hollywood of the casting couch' movement?

somewhere young actors and actresses could go if they were forced to do things in order to get a job to tell the story in confidence.

to build a case against the creeps.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

springyzone — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 00:28:56 GMT

I'm wondering how many other high profile people out there are suddenly worrying about their past behaviour.

I'm not saying sexual harrassment was ever right but I do think societal values change over time. For instance I am sure a lot of people in US in the early 20th century grew up taking racial segregation as just normal, part of the status quo & got a shock as things changed & their way of life was suddenly questioned.

I also suspect sexual harrassment falls into this category a bit. It was embarrassing & people didn't always know how to deal with it but more than that, some in positions of power or fame thought that somehow it gave them an automatic right to try it on. we come down to this sense of entitlement. I think there was even an American president who had illegitimate children with one of his slaves. How much choice did that woman have? Was the man condemned? of course not, it was par for the course in those times.

Closer to home in Australia, aborigines were often just killed for no reason in the early 1800s. Then one day at Myall Creek a group of whites brutally killed a group of aborigines. There was nothing at all unusual in that-except that in this case it went to court and for the first time in history, some whites were hanged for the crime.

To us that may seem justified but in reality, those men were doing what lots of others did and suddenly the 'rules' were changed without warning.

Rape has been a crime for many years but sexual harrassment-I'd say a lot of powerful men in the past thought they were entitled & they were bullet proof & now they are finding the rules have changed.

Re: Harvey Weinstein: Me Too!

davidc4430 — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:11:57 GMT

bush justice can still be happening, only a year or two back there was a case of a young aboriginal man being transported in a traytop mounted lock-up that had no airconditioning on a 40c day....he died i believe.

same as there are still those in the USA that would happily return blacks to being nothing more than slaves.

this is why i say the people jumping up now, great, but why have you done nothing for so long. allways waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting.

i give all the credit to the young women who have now told their stories regardless of the threats to their careers.

they seemed to be saying if my career means being groped or even raped then i dont want it.