topic Re: druged driving in Community Spirit

druged driving

amalan11 — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:14:16 GMT

I am appauled by this , on the South Coast of NSW there was an awful accident recently where a four wheel drive vered over and took out a little car ,2 sisters were draged out critical and their parents insinerated along with at fault driver .One of the sisters has now died and the other is still critical.

It comes out now the other driver has an awful driving history including jail time and was a drug addict....

He was returning from a methadone clinic when this happened, But if thats not bad enough its legal,you are allowed to drive after visiting a methadone clinic

How is that possible????

unbelievable. .

I do hope they change the law there is no way people on methadone should drive

Re: druged driving

kopenhagen5 — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:34:59 GMT

There has been another accident in similar circumstances.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/12/28/10/18/driver-with-still-warm-drug-pipe-charged-over-crash-that-killed-mother-and-daughter-on-christmas-day

I have no objection in these drivers receiving a lethal injection.

Re: druged driving

givemeaspell — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:18:02 GMT

What a tragedy this is. Innocent family wiped out. Apparently multiple traffic offences, why was this person still driving?

Re: druged driving

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:39:34 GMT

Because society demands that scumbags like this are given chance after chance after chance

Re: druged driving

davidc4430 — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:03:39 GMT

I think these things happen because our pollies would have to stop aguing over stuff like SSM and who is and isnt a citizen and do their jobs.

thats federal, state and local elected representatives.

we vote in govts to amongst other things make laws we must follow.

our laws regarding lots of things just dont fit the crime of today. it seems to take forever for the polies to get a grip on a problem and fix it.

besides, yep this was a terrible accident? but it'll be forgotten by all but those close to it by this time next week. so the govt thinks well why spend months on putting legislation thru parliment when it wont win us many votes. sad but true.

much better spending money they dont have building stuff we cant afford (but we remember who did it at the next election) and we love using. footy stadiums, new roads ect ect.

Re: druged driving

chameleon54 — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:07:06 GMT

Just wait till medical marijuana gets a decent hold here. There will be dopey drivers smashing into things left, right and centre and its all OK because they smoke dope to relieve the pain of..... ...........

Yes I know all the arguments about medicinal marijuana having low THC levels, but it is the thin end of the wedge. The dopes who use it wont mind smoking the real thing rather than the low THC stuff and our weakened laws wont be able to diddly squat about it.

Dope is a scourge on society, dumbing people down, taking away their initiative and turning them into mindless morons. The young ones today ( YIPEE !!!!....... I,m old enough to say that now.... ) are using dope and amphetamines in place of alcohol. Its cheaper and gives more bang for their buck. I see unemployed, doped out kids everywhere and its such a waste of potential. We just dont need another habit forming, dangerous drug legalised. we,ve got enough problems with alcohol and nicotine abuse without caving into the drugged up, dope smoking lobby.

Re: druged driving

peteepie — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 02:32:05 GMT

Methadone and driving

It is illegal for anyone to drive if, by being under the influence of a drug/s, they are incapable of having proper control of a vehicle. This includes methadone and, if suspected, the driver can be subjected to a drug test. Breaking this law carries penalties including disqualification from driving, heavy fines and/or imprisonment. Mixing methadone with other substances further increases the risk of accident. For instance, even a small amount of alcohol taken with methadone can impair an individual’s driving skills and put them at risk of a serious accident. Methadone may also affect the client’s ability when operating heavy machinery or playing sport. Until a client is stabilised on a particular dose of methadone, it is safer if they avoid driving a car or operating machinery. This is particularly important during the first few weeks of treatment or when the methadone dose is changed.

Problem is scumbags like this don't care about the law.

Re: druged driving

not_for_sale — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 04:04:29 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:

"Dope is a scourge on society, dumbing people down, taking away their initiative and turning them into mindless morons".

I'd agree with you if I didn't have an opinion, but I'd rather just wait for this bud to open. Peace man.

Re: druged driving

amalan11 — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 09:48:25 GMT

It looks like the first article I read on this may have been wrong in saying it is legal to drive after visiting a meth clinic. I notice in later stories it said there was legal for people running clinics to allow clients to drive but even so its a disgrace .

I don't drive and live in inner City area so have lots of transportation but I really think we need to look at confiscation of cars for driving offences that warrant it especially repeat offenders.It seems like a lot of these people are not the type to steal a car but will keep driving despite no licence or court orders if a car is there.

If they just could not access a car it would be better for everyone.I know cars can be confiscated for a month in some states but it should be permanently if they are repeat offenders ...just sell it and ban them from a car for say 10 years.

I would also say too bad if its a friend or relative who owns it .They should make sure traffic offenders do not take their car.

something has to be done to stop the dreadfull number of non licensed drivers that are on the road ,so often with fatal crashs it involves unlicenced/ drugged/drunk drivers .

it just seems crazy to me that these types have cars as just telling them not to do it will not work.

Re: druged driving

viewmont1071 — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:38:40 GMT

Elderly drivers taking prescription opiate derivatives and not recognizing they are impaired are a far greater risk... so say the statistics

http://www.talkingdrugs.org/prescription-drugged-driving

Methadone and buprenorphine at most stable doses will not make addicts high, but rather just rids cravings. Drug cravings often lead to drug-seeking behavior and subsequent crime, especially when cravings are not fed. Methadone is often prescribed just because of its lack of high in patients who are taking it to the point of titration.

Furthermore, it is often used as primary treatment for chronic pain because of its analgesic and antitussive properties, as well as having a lesser chance of addiction than many other pharmaceutical drugs. Some patients are prescribed methadone because of allergic reactions to other pain killers.

Nearly all records of driving accidents where methadone was found in the person’s system, the person was not tolerant to the dose or there were additional drugs or alcohol found in the patient.

Reviews of driving records have shown that narcotic users do not have driving records significantly different from aged-matched individuals in the general population, nor do methadone-dependent patients (Gordon).

Findings typically suggest that standards around methadone patients driving should be the same as for other people when stabilized on methadone, LAAM, or buprenorphine treatment (Lenne, Dietze, Rumbold, Redman, Triggs; Schindler, Ortner, Peternell, Eder, Opgenoorth, Fischer; Baewert, Gombas, Schindler, Peternell-Moelzer, Eder, Jagsch).

A study in Australia points out that impairment by alcohol consumption is similar in effects in drug-free drivers and opioid-dependent drivers (Dietze). Studies have even gone as far as to point out,

“The formal assertion that addiction equals driving-inability, which is largely practiced at present, is inadmissible and therefore harmful to the therapeutic efforts for rehabilitation.” (Rössler, Battista, Deisenhammer, Günther, Pohl, Prokop, Riemer)

Re: druged driving

viewmont1071 — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 22:06:01 GMT

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3342518?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Abstract
The available evidence indicates that the "decriminalization" of marijuana possession had little or no impact on rates of use.

Although rates of marijuana use increased in those U.S. states which reduced maximum penalties for possession to a fine, the prevalence of use increased at similar or higher rates in those states which retained more severe penalties.

There were also no discernable impacts on the health care systems. On the other hand, the so-called "decriminalization" measures did result in substantial savings in the criminal
justice system.

A study on Portugal and their drug decriminalization regime

http://www.tijthailand.org/useruploads/files/2010_caitlin_211621_1.pdf

Conclusion

In the Portuguese case, the statistical indicators and key informant interviews that we
have reviewed suggest that since decriminalization in July 2001, the following changes
have occurred:

* small increases in reported illicit drug use amongst adults;

* reduced illicit drug use among problematic drug users and adolescents, at least since
2003;

* reduced burden of drug offenders on the criminal justice system;

* increased uptake of drug treatment;

* reduction in opiate-related deaths and infectious diseases;

* increases in the amounts of drugs seized by the authorities;

* reductions in the retail prices of drugs.

By comparing the trends in Portugal and neighbouring Spain and Italy, we can say that
while some trends clearly reflect regional shifts (e.g. the increase in use amongst adults)
and/or the expansion of services throughout Portugal, some effects do appear to be
specific to Portugal.

Indeed, the reduction in problematic drug users and reduction in burden of drug offenders on the criminal justice system were in direct contrast to those trends observed in neighbouring Spain and Italy.

Moreover, there are no signs of mass expansion of the drug market in Portugal.

This is in contrast with apparent market expansions in neighbouring Spain.

The problem is that it is impossible to state that any of these changes were the direct
result of the decriminalization policy.

It also remains unclear whether the observed impacts were influenced more by the policy or its implementation

@chameleon54 wrote:
Just wait till medical marijuana gets a decent hold here. There will be dopey drivers smashing into things left, right and centre and its all OK because they smoke dope to relieve the pain of..... ...........

Yes I know all the arguments about medicinal marijuana having low THC levels, but it is the thin end of the wedge. The dopes who use it wont mind smoking the real thing rather than the low THC stuff and our weakened laws wont be able to diddly squat about it.

Dope is a scourge on society, dumbing people down, taking away their initiative and turning them into mindless morons. The young ones today ( YIPEE !!!!....... I,m old enough to say that now.... ) are using dope and amphetamines in place of alcohol. Its cheaper and gives more bang for their buck. I see unemployed, doped out kids everywhere and its such a waste of potential. We just dont need another habit forming, dangerous drug legalised. we,ve got enough problems with alcohol and nicotine abuse without caving into the drugged up, dope smoking lobby.

https://theconversation.com/australias-daily-alcohol-toll-15-deaths-and-430-hospitalisations-29906

Chronic disease and injury caused by alcohol has significantly increased over a decade, causing 15 deaths and 430 hospitalisations each day in Australia, according to a new report.

The report found alcohol caused 5,554 deaths and 157,132 hospitalisations in 2010.

Among men, injuries were responsible for the highest number of alcohol-related deaths (36%), followed by cancers (25%) and digestive diseases (16%).

Among women, the highest number of alcohol-attributable deaths was for heart diseases (34%) followed by cancers (31%) and injuries (12%).

Mainstream media publish hangover cures every year around NEW years eve

So what is a hangover????

It is a condition caused by the gross abuse of a drug

Hangover cures 2017 google search results

About 3,000,000 results (0.59 seconds)

Re: druged driving

chameleon54 — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 14:51:57 GMT

For every study showing how great decriminalisation of drugs are, there is another study showing the damaging effects of drug abuse and dependency. One I read recently showed teenagers who regularly used marijuana during their adolescence showed permanent brain damage including reduced memory capacity and an 8 point reduction in IQ.

You can upload all of the pro-drug propaganda you like. I live in an area with reasonably high youth unemployment and have teenage kids of my own who associate with drug dependant friends. ( half the kids around are doped out where I live ) I know what I see, time and time again. Young late teenage and early twenties youths with marijuana addictions resulting in a state of permanent "high". Sleeping in until lunch time, being offered jobs, but losing them within weeks due to unreliability and poor performance as a direct result of drug use, little money, no car, often no licence, droping out of school, no self confidence or self esteem, no sense of hope or future plans, alienation from mainstream society, poor housing and in extreme cases homelessness ............... The list goes on...... Probably one of the main concerns is that as these teens get older, many move from smoking dope to using ice or crack. Marijuana use and the culture associated with it is definitely a gateway to other more dangerous drugs for many teens. .......

And yes I have seen all of these problems in the youth that I know personally including one young lad who lived in a friends garden shed in the middle of winter. His older brothers have all gone on from smoking dope to becoming addicted to crack and amphetamines with their house recently raided by police for their drug dealing. Another 13 yo girl ran away from home because her parents tried to set some boundaries and get her off of dope. She ended up with a much older male who regularly raped her, but she stayed with him as she had no-where else to go.

I also have personal middle aged friends who are regular dope smokers. One dope smoking friend got to the point where he has lost his business, ( couldnt get out of bed in the morning ) suffered depression, got the munchies and got so fat he is now house bound, all due to dope addiction. Another heavy dope smoking friend is currently dying of lung cancer. So maybe you will excuse me if I seem a bit uptight about drug use, but I have personally seen too many lives smashed by innocent little dope smoking.

We have enough problems along with the medical and social costs associated with tobacco and alcohol. What possible justification can there be to add another drug of dependence to the two we already have ? Its just crazy stuff being pushed by a mob of addicts who want to make their problem socially acceptable and more mainstream.

Re: druged driving

colic2bullsgirlore — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:19:14 GMT

I think you are mixing up drug use

ie an alcoholic bevvy or two a couple of times a week with friends. on a special occasion or a quiet couple to destress after work

98% odd of the populaton manages to achieve this

Drug abuse

drinking alcohol every day... the cheapest you can get..... until you drop will only 2% odd

Why do you not trust adults to use illicit drugs but prefer to believe they will all or the greater number will abuse the drug?

Re: druged driving

chameleon54 — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 23:22:38 GMT

@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:
I think you are mixing up drug use

ie an alcoholic bevvy or two a couple of times a week with friends. on a special occasion or a quiet couple to destress after work

98% odd of the populaton manages to achieve this

Drug abuse
drinking alcohol every day... the cheapest you can get..... until you drop will only 2% odd

Why do you not trust adults to use illicit drugs but prefer to believe they will all or the greater number will abuse the drug?

Probably because I have seen too many friends and loved ones who all thought they had it under control, damage or destroy their lives with drug use. I know large numbers of regular drug users ( playing music in blues bands for 30 years its almost parr for the course ). At a rough guess I would say around half manage to use drugs " succesfully " for of relaxation and to become more sociable. The other half have been very badly impacted by their long term drug use , becoming daily users ( addiction ) and with several of my good friends dead in their 50,s as a result of the health impacts of chronic drug use.

I also just happen to care a bit about the youths I mentioned in my last post. Some of these where not just kids in the neighbourhood. They are kids that I drove to functions, who came to hang out at my house. They are basically good, smart kids who could have bright futures who are trashing their own lives ( and the lives of others around them ) with regular drug use and addiction.

The pro drug lobby try to spin drug abuse as a harmless past time and for some it probably is. But for a very large percent of regular drug users it causes huge problems which they refuse to accept or own up too. They much prefer to dismiss it as a harmless bit of fun while they become unemployed, lose their mojo and eventually succumb to the health problems associated with chronic drug use, becoming a burden on their friends and family and society in general.

Re: druged driving

viewmont1071 — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 21:27:22 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:
@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:
I think you are mixing up drug use

ie an alcoholic bevvy or two a couple of times a week with friends. on a special occasion or a quiet couple to destress after work

98% odd of the populaton manages to achieve this

Drug abuse
drinking alcohol every day... the cheapest you can get..... until you drop will only 2% odd

Why do you not trust adults to use illicit drugs but prefer to believe they will all or the greater number will abuse the drug?

Probably because I have seen too many friends and loved ones who all thought they had it under control, damage or destroy their lives with drug use. I know large numbers of regular drug users ( playing music in blues bands for 30 years its almost parr for the course ). At a rough guess I would say around half manage to use drugs " succesfully " for of relaxation and to become more sociable. The other half have been very badly impacted by their long term drug use , becoming daily users ( addiction ) and with several of my good friends dead in their 50,s as a result of the health impacts of chronic drug use.

I also just happen to care a bit about the youths I mentioned in my last post. Some of these where not just kids in the neighbourhood. They are kids that I drove to functions, who came to hang out at my house. They are basically good, smart kids who could have bright futures who are trashing their own lives ( and the lives of others around them ) with regular drug use and addiction.

The pro drug lobby try to spin drug abuse as a harmless past time and for some it probably is. But for a very large percent of regular drug users it causes huge problems which they refuse to accept or own up too. They much prefer to dismiss it as a harmless bit of fun while they become unemployed, lose their mojo and eventually succumb to the health problems associated with chronic drug use, becoming a burden on their friends and family and society in general.

So by your figuring 50% of your sample would be a mile better off because they would not need to break the law to access and imbibe their "successful" tipple.

The other 50%, if illicit drugs were decriminalized, would also get acces to counselling and education while visiting their legal dealer....... ( ie the kids you care about the neighborhood kids that hang/hung at your house),

Hmmmmm ............ maybe 80 years of prohibition is not a big enough sample to prove that the Prohibition war on drugs is lost.

The only thing prohibition does is line the pockets of the black market............

Smart corruptible chemists keep on coming up with everyday products AKA precursors that mixed in the correct ratios and

heated/cooled/whatever/distilled will create a high, probably a very dangerous high.

...prohibition (and efficacy) prompted the black market to go down that route

Maybe the government could get the organized crime bosses and the street dealers to initiate that counselling.

Our law keepers cannot ( or will not) keep illicit drugs out of our gaols... I cannot accept that any thinking person believes that

prohibiition has worked or in fact has any chance of working in the future. Education, harm minimization and maturity coupled with

decriminalization appear to me to have merit

Re: druged driving

village_person — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 00:03:56 GMT

@amalan11 wrote:
But if thats not bad enough its legal,you are allowed to drive after visiting a methadone clinic
How is that possible????
unbelievable. .

Did you know that it is illegal to smoke in the heroin injecting room at Kings Cross. Lunacy at its best.

Re: druged driving

cezm — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:08:26 GMT

Possibly because by injecting you are only impacting your own health - by smoking you would be impacting the health of others including staff, doctors, counsellors etc.

Re: druged driving

chameleon54 — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 09:50:56 GMT

Tell it to the widow of my last friend that died from the effects of drug addiction. Or maybe you could explain how great drug use and abuse is to her two small kids who are now without a father. ( after suffering for years through his addiction and gradual health decline )

You can make all the excuses you like. Drug use and addiction are taking an increasing toll on families and society in general. Making it " normal " by legalising it is not going to help. All it will achieve is to make it socially acceptable to sit around, leaching off society, too doped out to work or contribute to the social good in any way.

I suspect it is mainly drug addicts who are already unemployed and unemployable that are pushing for decrimalisation.

Re: druged driving

viewmont1071 — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 00:49:38 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:

I suspect it is mainly drug addicts who are already unemployed and unemployable that are pushing for decrimalisation.

You won't win Cluedo with suspicions like that

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-20/former-top-cops-want-white-market-in-illicit-drugs/8369102

Former top cops want 'white market' in illicit drugs, decriminalisation, more injecting rooms

The report, entitled "Can Australia Respond to Drugs More Effectively and Safely?" was launched this morning by former Victorian and NSW premiers Jeff Kennett and Bob Carr.

The report's recommendations include:

Decriminalising drug use and consideration of eliminating all penalties
More "Drug consumptions rooms" — Australia has only one medically supervised centre in Kings Cross
Consideration of a regulated "white market" for drugs in a bid to counter "the black market"
Improving health and social services to drug users, particularly in rural areas
More funding for harm minimisation strategies

Former federal police commissioner Mick Palmer told ABC News Breakfast his attitude had changed a lot since he was a young policeman in the 1960s.

"I didn't have time for people who used drugs. I realised the futility of the practice," he said.

"Since I retired, I have devoted a fair bit of time to work more closely with the drug user coalface and it has become obvious we can't arrest our way out of it.

"Law enforcement can't solve what is a serious issue and we need a more multi-faceted approach to deal with the problem.

Re: druged driving

kopenhagen5 — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 01:19:23 GMT

@amalan11 wrote:
I am appauled by this , on the South Coast of NSW there was an awful accident recently where a four wheel drive vered over and took out a little car ,2 sisters were draged out critical and their parents insinerated along with at fault driver .One of the sisters has now died and the other is still critical.

It comes out now the other driver has an awful driving history including jail time and was a drug addict....
He was returning from a methadone clinic when this happened, But if thats not bad enough its legal,you are allowed to drive after visiting a methadone clinic
How is that possible????
unbelievable. .

I do hope they change the law there is no way people on methadone should drive

Now the other sister has also died.

All members of the family died due to some brainless moron that shouldn't have been allowed to drive.