topic Re: Unbelievable in Community Spirit

Unbelievable

marwi_3023 — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:06:53 GMT

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-03/why-was-patricia-karvelas-kicked-out-of-question-time/10579052

I mean, well she's practically naked

Re: Unbelievable

not_for_sale — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 11:17:40 GMT

Re: Unbelievable

springyzone — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 22:05:21 GMT

The top is perfectly decent (by Australian standards).

But I think the trouble is, the rule is there needs to be some kind of jacket.

I had not realised that till i read the article. It said several men had been asked to leave at various times too if they rushed in with just a shirt & tie, no jacket.

Now, to me a shirt & tie & good trousers is perfectly acceptable too.

But the thing with rules is, if you have them then you logically need to enforce them, otherwise everyone will just ignore them more & more & when you do eventually pull up someone for it, that person will say "But so and so did it and they didn't get into trouble!"

So if you have a rule, you need to enforce it & need to enforce it on everyone, without fear or favour, unless there are extenuating circumstances (such as broken down air con, as they mentioned).

I think there definitelty do need to be guidelines on dress in Parliament House. The more serious a job is, usually the more stringent the dress code will be.

So while the current rules are in place.. she should have worn a jacket.

Re: Unbelievable

marwi_3023 — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 22:26:06 GMT

Females don't have to wear a jacket.
If it had a full sleeve it would have been OK.
Problem was it had a half sleeve.
Rules are there for a reason.
I wouldn't wear a tie now even if it meant going to gaol or the death sentence.
I don't own a suit and refuse to wear one.
They say clothes maketh the man but not in my opinion.
I know a woman beating pile of s... in town.
Every time he goes to court he has a fancy suit on.
He is still a pile of s...

Re: Unbelievable

lyhargr_0 — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 23:41:36 GMT

Wonder if Julie was asked to cover up or leave? lol

Re: Unbelievable

springyzone — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:22:52 GMT

Obviously she should have been, if things were even handed. perhaps a different person was on duty that day.

There shouldn't be any favouritism.

Have to add a disclaimer. I don't necessarily think a person in a suit or jacket is any better than anyone else & it absolutely is no indication of intelligence or integrity. Or ability.

But there are certain levels of dress that are expected in different positions. I used to work in a school & our prin would not have turned up for work in anything else other than suit/tie/jacket as in his position he had to attend a lot of meetings with the department, peers, parents etc

On the other hand, our sports teacher wore sports clothes and gym shoes every day.

I remember there was a dress code for us too. No shoe string straps or shoes that resembled a thong, no matter how expensive they may have been.

The prin wanted to make it no sandals of any kind-no footwear that showed a toe for females but we overruled him on that one and convinced him that a solid sandal was acceptable. Well, maybe not convinced him but he gave in to the majority vote.

Dress codes change over time.

Re: Unbelievable

lyhargr_0 — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:51:52 GMT

Time to move into the 21st century ......

Re: Unbelievable

davidc4430 — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 01:13:11 GMT

its a joke, that our government still has this kind of shyte going on.

of course its double standards, i rekon the media could find dozens of examples of female MPs with bare shouldes in parliment in very quick time.

after all, those women sitting behind the PM or the opposition leader dress to be noticed!

and of course its more bad publicity for a govt trying to look good.

Re: Unbelievable

davidc4430 — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 01:21:06 GMT

of course there are some men in the parliment who would find the sight of naked shoulders too stimulating and would get uncomfortable stirings in ...(well we can imagine)

i'm pretty sure thats what led to barnys romp in the hay with his secretary.

and look at the trouble that led to!

yup, better start making the ladys ware burkas to avoid problems.

Re: Unbelievable

marwi_3023 — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 16:52:50 GMT

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-04/patricia-karvelas-should-not-have-been-removed-question-time/10582308

Probably only because someone pointed out the obvious hypocrisy in regards to the Julie Bishop outfit

Re: Unbelievable

davidc4430 — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 22:25:52 GMT

i really think women wearing clothes that expose the shoulders or men not wearing a jacket or even a tie should be ok in this day and age.

i'm not saying it would be ok for mr rabbitt to turn up in his budgie smugglers and flip flops, but lets get real here, we should be able to dress comfortably to a reasonable standard.

Re: Unbelievable

springyzone — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 22:54:56 GMT

I'm not disagreeing, but if they have rules or guidelines that indicate a jacket must be worn or outfits have to have sleeves or whatever, then they need to decide if that rule stays or goes.

Because if it stays, it is unfair on those working there whose job it is to enforce it, if they are forced into a situation where they have to decide when to turn a blind eye eye etc, which is obviously what happened with Bishop.

They need clear guidelines and every MP needs to have a copy of any guidelines or special rules when they take up the job.

To me, they need to sit down and maybe rewrite the guidelines. But I do think they need to have some. I noticed you said that 'I'm not saying it would be ok for mr rabbit to turn up in his budgie smugglers and flip flops'.

I'm not suggesting he ever would, but always there are people who will push the envelope down the track so there need to be guides as to what is basically acceptable and what is not.

I know people here might think it is a matter of common sense but i remember from my work days, there was one evening at a year 6 graduation ceremony in Dec where a few of the girls arrived by limo in outfits that showed a lot of flesh & (in my opinion & some others) were more suited to a streetwalker, totally unacceptable gear for 12 year old girls. You wouldn't think you would have to issue dress guidelines for a year 6 graduation, would you! After that, the prin fixed it-it was a case of everyone comes in school uniform.

Re: Unbelievable

marwi_3023 — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 00:18:30 GMT

But it's alright for Julie Bishop to get away with it.
Shouldn't be double standard

Re: Unbelievable

davidc4430 — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 01:09:51 GMT

except we arnt talking about a year 6 school event, we are talking about our australian parliment in 2018, all adults.

we see 2 examples of how the same rules are enforced (or not)

if some 'official' at zoomed up to the MP wearing her shoulder revealing dress and told her she had to leave then this would be a totally different story.

funny how the female was an ABC reporter who got fingered for the 'get out of here now' treatment.

Re: Unbelievable

springyzone — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 08:39:35 GMT

Oh I agree, it should be the same rule across the board for all MPs.

I actually think reporters/ cameramen and visitors should be allowed a little bit more leniency than MPs and the same dress code should not apply to them.

The 'rules' should only apply to MPs or those who work in those rooms and might be under scrutiny.

But as for saying all MPs are adults, from what i have seen of life, never assume that will stop anyone from making a bad decision at some stage.

So I do think there need to be guidelines, they need to be clear and they need to be abided by. But that doesn't mean I think the present rules have to stay, they obviously need revision.

What you mentioned-the uneven enforcement of the 'rules' is exactly why the rules need to be clear & I think highlights the main complaint not just in parliament house but in any place-unfair or differential treatment. It's always going to happen sometimes and sometimes it will be by accident. But what people care most about is not just 'rules' but that they are fairly administered.

Re: Unbelievable

lurker172602 — Thu, 06 Dec 2018 01:19:43 GMT

Actually sleeves, or the absence of, are not mentioned in the House dress code

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/House_of_Representatives/Powers_practice_and_procedure/Practice6/Practice6HTML?file=Chapter5&section=11&fullscreen=1

Re: Unbelievable

the_great_she_elephant — Thu, 06 Dec 2018 01:49:17 GMT

Maybe she should have taken a leaf out of Paulines book and worn a burqa.