topic Re: Another live export failure in Community Spirit

Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 10:42:21 GMT

Live export of 63,000 sheep may be blocked if Emanuel Export does not meet animal welfare guidelines

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-06/agriculture-department-threatens-to-block-live-export-shipment/9627238

Re: Another live export failure

lyhargr_0 — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 12:00:17 GMT

This cruel, barbaric practice needs to be totally banned asap ......

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 23:13:36 GMT

Live exports: Maritime officials block shipment of 65,000 sheep to the Middle East

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-08/maritime-officials-block-live-export-65000-sheep-to-middle-east/9631602

the silence is deafening from our small but vocal supporters of the live animal trade.

i thought we would have had at leat 1 come out of the woodwork to say 'its fake news' or some such rubbish.

Re: Another live export failure

lyhargr_0 — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 23:16:20 GMT

How can anyone look at the footage shown on the ABC last night and STILL support live trade export? If you do, then you truly have no heart or conscience 😞

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 23:46:48 GMT

After listening to a guy on tv last night continually saying how australia has the highest standards in the worl re live exports i had a great idea.

lets put live streaming cameras on board every transport ship, cover the whole ship, 24/7. have the cameras feed rotating cam to cam every few minutes.

so anyone at any time of day can 'tune in' and see just how this "Worlds Best Practice" is working.

IF its as good as we are led to believe and these terrible incidents are just 'one offs" then why not?

the technology exists, use it.

Re: Another live export failure

tasfleur — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 00:09:23 GMT

Brilliant idea David, full applause!

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 05:18:15 GMT

Live export is a centuries-old Australian industry, but the cameras are new

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/australias-history-of-animal-exports/9640502

so we've been doing this since 1788 and we still havent got it right.

what hope the latest outrageous videos will make any difference?

Re: Another live export failure

*kazumi* — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 06:51:06 GMT

What I do not get is how can it be lot more expensive to send them dead and frozen?
I mean to send them alive they have to have certain space per animal, and the ceilings must be high enough for people to work there (looks like more than 2.5m in the footage). There have to be enough people to feed 65 000 sheep, and clean after them. There has to be storage for the animal feed and drinking water. And even in ideal conditions the animals are likely to be stressed and lose condition. Who wants to eat meat from sickly animals?

If the government would encourage the Muslim community to open halal abattoirs in regional areas, the animals could be slaughtered near where they were raised, frozen and shipped as a high quality product. Can you imagine how many dead sheep can be transported in the space needed for one alive one? I bet it would be 15. And that is not accounting for the animal carers, vet, and food and water storage.

Australia has reputation for good quality meat, but shocking images like these can seriously endanger our trade.

By the way, we have been getting our meat directly from a farmer, who has his grassfed animals slaughtered locally, and then delivers in his refrigerated van to Melbourne. The difference is amazing.

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:52:54 GMT

Live animal exports

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook44p/AnimalExports

The live export trade is dominated by exports of cattle (which comprise 90% of total live exports) and account for 2.7% of Australian agricultural exports from 2006–2009. In this period the total value of live exports was $5,886.6 million for cattle and $311.9 million for sheep (in current prices).

I thought we were talking about a much higher percentage of our global trade in sheep and cattle!

3%?

only 3% is live trade!

End it now guys, this is rediculous, we are getting a terrible reputation on the world stage for 3%!

if we cant live without that 3% there is something wrong.

Re: Another live export failure

chameleon54 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 09:13:31 GMT

@davidc4430wrote:
Live animal exports

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook44p/AnimalExports

The live export trade is dominated by exports of cattle (which comprise 90% of total live exports) and account for 2.7% of Australian agricultural exports from 2006–2009. In this period the total value of live exports was $5,886.6 million for cattle and $311.9 million for sheep (in current prices).

I thought we were talking about a much higher percentage of our global trade in sheep and cattle!
3%?
only 3% is live trade!
End it now guys, this is rediculous, we are getting a terrible reputation on the world stage for 3%!
if we cant live without that 3% there is something wrong.

Not trying to defend the indefensable, just clarifying a few things.

The vast bulk of sheep meat produced in Australia is prime lamb. Other than a few animals that are kept with tails and boys bits entire for specific religous purposes, the live export trade mainly deals in mature aged Merino wethers. Basically a prime lamb and a mature Merino Wether are completely different things. The live export trade could possibly ( at a guess ) take up to 20% - 30% of the adult Merino wether flock, ( Those shown in the OP link where Merino Wethers ). These animals are kept on farm, past lamb stage, shorn a couple of times for their fleece and sold to the boat trade as mature adults.

This limits there market to some extent as they are no longer Prime lamb.

Having said that, the dynamics in the Australian sheep industry are such at the moment that now is as good a time as any to halt the boat trade. Wool prices are at record levels and the Merino Wethers are the highest producing wool animal of all sheep types. Cull adult Merino sheep are also selling very strongly to the Australian meat processing industry. Basically other than the dry weather and Thomas foods fire, the Merino industry is in excellent shape to absorb the closure of Live export.

And yes, I agree with you David, that the damage being done to Australias reputation as a sheep supplier is being damaged to a greater extent than the any benifits the live export trade may bring.

It is interesting to note that the major rural business Elders announced last week that it had sold its Indonesian Cattle feedlot and meat processing facility as it was exiting the Indonesian Live cattle export trade. ( The Chinese purchased it of course )

Re: Another live export failure

kopenhagen5 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 09:50:32 GMT

After listening to a guy on tv last night continually saying how australia has the highest standards in the world re live exports i had a great idea.

To be fair, he was saying Australia have the highest standards BUT some exporters are not adhering to those standards.

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:05:02 GMT

@kopenhagen5wrote:
After listening to a guy on tv last night continually saying how australia has the highest standards in the world re live exports i had a great idea.

To be fair, he was saying Australia have the highest standards BUT some exporters are not adhering to those standards.

wouldnt you think, after the outcry when the labor govt acted after the videos of cattle being bashed to death were released, remember the lib/nat party condeming the labor party for its 'kneejerk' action? well wouldnt you think the lib/nats who said they knew better how to handle things, would not now be presiding over what looks to me even worse!

so presumably the lib/nats are proud they have worlds highest standards which still allow for thousands of sheep to die horrible deaths on their lifetime cruise.

as i said, lets just put cameras on all the ships with constant 24/7 live streaming.

Re: Another live export failure

lyhargr_0 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:35:36 GMT

As I have mentioned before, I abhor Live Trade Export ..... I dont give a flying fig how well the sheep farmers are doing here in Au atm nor the age of the sheep they send out for Live Trade ...... I DO care that these animals were left with NO food or water, had to stand in their own urine and excrement until they died an excruciating death from heat exhaustion

Re: Another live export failure

kopenhagen5 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:37:10 GMT

Policing needs to be strict. It is live animals, completely different to other products.

Cameras could play an important role in that for sure.

If we are to export live animals, lets make it really tough for rules to be broken and lets lift the standards even higher with much better conditions. The integrity and reputation will equate to the middle east being prepared to pay top dollar for a top product.

That kind of initial investment will pay dividends in the long run.

Shareholders will need to take a small cut, government will need spend a little and everyone involved will need to work a little harder initially.

I fear there are very few competitors, hence a lethargy has set in with current export companies.

If countries such as Japan, Holland, Denmark, USA were given the shipping opportunity of such a contract, look out Australia, time to wake up.

Re: Another live export failure

chameleon54 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 22:02:27 GMT

@lyhargr_0wrote:
As I have mentioned before, I abhor Live Trade Export ..... I dont give a flying fig how well the sheep farmers are doing here in Au atm nor the age of the sheep they send out for Live Trade ...... I DO care that these animals were left with NO food or water, had to stand in their own urine and excrement until they died an excruciating death from heat exhaustion

Just as well you are not in a position to manage Australias exit from the live shipping trade then. ( or anything else that requires some logical, responsible, reasoned thought ). Irrational rants, devoid of any logic, facts or consideration to unintended consequences are what caused the animal welfare desaster in Northern Australia when the Gillard Government immediately halted the live cattle export trade to Indonesia.

Unfortunately as was seen with the " immediate halt " experiment that Labor conducted, enormous numbers of animals can be left to suffer and die if stranded here on Australian soil without any plan to manage them.

Like you I would like to see the trade shut down, but with any major change in trade or political policy that has long lead times, decisions need to be thought through, planned and executed based on ALL of the FACTS, taking into account unintended consequences that may occur

As we have seen in the past, knee jerk responses based purely on emotion and devoid of any rational thought, planning or understanding of the issue can cause more problems than they solve.

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 23:01:49 GMT

we are arguing about something thats not happening.

there has been no 'kneejerk' reaction to last weeks story/videos.

the govt is NOT closing down live exports, nor is there a plan to close it over time!

if the govt had anounced 'enough is enough' we can't stop these mass deaths, all our rules and regulations are a failure, and will begin a process to end live export.

i feel those like myself would be satisfied.

but what i and people like me are seeing is ministers and people with their fingers in the pie saying 'we'll fix this, dont worry, it wont happen again'

the same rubbish we got told the last time, and the time before that!

so here we go again, we get the promises, now we wait for the next videos of mass death. which will be much harder to get because security will be upped 500%

Re: Another live export failure

chameleon54 — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 04:26:30 GMT

@davidc4430wrote:
we are arguing about something thats not happening.

there has been no 'kneejerk' reaction to last weeks story/videos.
the govt is NOT closing down live exports, nor is there a plan to close it over time!
if the govt had anounced 'enough is enough' we can't stop these mass deaths, all our rules and regulations are a failure, and will begin a process to end live export.
i feel those like myself would be satisfied.

but what i and people like me are seeing is ministers and people with their fingers in the pie saying 'we'll fix this, dont worry, it wont happen again'
the same rubbish we got told the last time, and the time before that!

so here we go again, we get the promises, now we wait for the next videos of mass death. which will be much harder to get because security will be upped 500%

A very rational and reasonable response David. Again it appears we can fully agree on something.

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 22:33:05 GMT

Live export industry to discuss Labor's plan for independent animal welfare inspector

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-18/live-export-industry-to-dicuss-labor-proposal/9669156

I can only assume the live export industy's sudden backflip on this proposal means they believe they can do as they have with previous attempts to bring their business under contol, that is, ignore it and carry on regardeless.

i have no faith this group cares one bit for the welfare of the animals, other wise we wouldnt be seeing 'smuggled out' videos of cruelty on a massive scale!

if any one of us ordinary people treated just 1 animal in the way this mob of money hungry cretins have treated the animals in their care, we'd be put through the courts, fined and ordered to have no animals in our care for a long time.

however these bistards just carry on as if it nothing.

stop the bandaids, stop the rot, stop the exports!

Re: Another live export failure

davidc4430 — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 22:35:10 GMT

@davidc4430 wrote:
Live export industry to discuss Labor's plan for independent animal welfare inspector

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-18/live-export-industry-to-dicuss-labor-proposal/9669156

I can only assume the live export industy's sudden backflip on this proposal means they believe they can do as they have with previous attempts to bring their business under contol, that is, ignore it and carry on regardeless.
i have no faith this group cares one bit for the welfare of the animals, other wise we wouldnt be seeing 'smuggled out' videos of cruelty on a massive scale!

if any one of us ordinary people treated just 1 animal in the way this mob of money hungry cretins have treated the animals in their care, we'd be put through the courts, fined and ordered to have no animals in our care for a long time.

however these bistards just carry on as if it nothing.

stop the bandaids, stop the rot, stop the exports!

oops, put an 'i' instead of an 'a' there

Re: Another live export failure

tasfleur — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 03:30:30 GMT

"Bistards and Bandaids" ...... What a great name for a heavy metal rock band ..