topic Re: Liberals - This is a bit low in Community Spirit

Liberals - This is a bit low

imastawka — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:06:01 GMT

Labor has accused the Liberal Party of deliberately using the official colours of the Australian Electoral Commission to mislead Chinese-speaking voters in a marginal seat, despite the AEC stating the posters are within the laws.

The posters, which were written in Mandarin and have appeared at booths in the Melbourne seat of Chisholm, state the "correct" way to vote is to preference the Liberal candidate first.

A photo taken by Victorian Trades Hall secretary Luke Hilakari showed a poster printed in the purple and white colours of the AEC tied to a fence next to an official AEC voting banner.

The text of the poster appears to be written in the style of an official instruction to voters:

"Correct way to vote.

"On the green voting card, put preference 1 next to the Liberal Party. The other boxes can be numbered from smallest to highest."

Australian Labor Party state secretary Kosmos Samaras has confirmed to the ABC that the party lodged a formal complaint with the AEC.

AEC state manager Steve Kennedy has told the ABC that the commission has considered the complaint and found the posters did not breach election laws.

"Whilst the AEC would prefer that parties or lobby groups don't use the colour purple, the AEC doesn't own the colour purple and there is nothing restricting the use of this," he said.

The Liberal Party has declined to comment.

Both the major parties are running female Chinese-Australian candidates in the seat of Chisholm after it was vacated by Liberal-turned-independent Julia Banks.

Roughly 20 per cent of the population in the electorate, in Melbourne's eastern suburbs, are of Chinese ancestry.

The battle for the seat is likely to come down to the Liberal Party's Gladys Liu and Labor's Jennifer Yang.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/federal-election-2019-labor-accuses-liberals-of-creating-misleading-chinese-language-posters/ar-AABwOtY?ocid=spartanntp

I'm not a political animal, but even I can see this is woefully wrong.

How does this not breach election laws?

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

martinw-48 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:22:55 GMT

I was thinking the same thing but to be honest there have been a lot of low acts from all sides this election

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

twyngwyn — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:29:32 GMT

It's either a breach or something has been lost in translation

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:32:03 GMT

very deceptive.

Libs might say that Labor are only complaining because they didn’t think of doing that.

They must have known that the translation of the text would be made early . . . . as 20% of that electorate are Chinese-Australians and BOTH Lib and Labor candidates are Chinese-Australians.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

davidc4430 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:34:03 GMT

of course as it doesnt say it was produced and displayed by the liberal party nothing can be done, unless someone admits to doing it.

but someone knows who printed it out there dont they?

not something you print on a home printer.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:42:31 GMT

I thought all election material had to be ‘authorised’ and have the name of who authorised the material printed on it.

My mandarin is a bit rusty, so I don’t know if the sign carries an authorisation!

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

twyngwyn — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:43:42 GMT

https://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/backgrounders/polling-places-offences.htm

Misleading or deceptive publications s. 329

A person must not print, publish or distribute, or cause, permit or authorize to be printed any matter or thing during an election period that is likely to mislead or deceive an elector in relation to the casting of a vote in an election under the Act. The scope of what amounts to "publish" includes not just the print media, but also by radio, television, internet or telephone.
If a person is found guilty of this offence, a court may impose a penalty not exceeding 10 penalty units or a period of imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both. A body corporate found guilty of this offence may be subject to a penalty not exceeding 50 penalty units.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

domino-710 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:45:49 GMT

And what is it with voting - using a pencil on a string. lol

All legal documents require - ink.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:45:58 GMT

I guess this may end up in the Court of Disputed Returns if the Libs win the seat.

Either way, the electoral laws need tightening.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

martinw-48 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:49:05 GMT

How many pens would they have to buy then.
People would steal them.
I worked for the Westpac bank and nothing stops people stealing pens.
Even a metal chain screwed into the wood didn't stop them

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

davidc4430 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:51:06 GMT

@domino-710 wrote:
And what is it with voting - using a pencil on a string. lol

All legal documents require - ink.

i heard this discussed during the week.

pencils are cheap and can easily be stored between elections

pens tend to dry out

and yes, people would steal them

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

domino-710 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:52:52 GMT

Probably a difficult one.

The sign states how to vote ' Liberal '.

If that was not one's intention and one was in favour of voting differently - it could be argued it was not misleading.

As handouts are used - ony one is followed - the remainder - binned.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

twyngwyn — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:54:12 GMT

Maybe there's video evidence of the person who erected it. It's on a public building, so the chances are someone saw whoever put it up! But if they don't speak the language, I wonder whether ignorance would be their saviour?

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

domino-710 — Sat, 18 May 2019 03:54:47 GMT

@davidc4430 wrote:
@domino-710 wrote:
And what is it with voting - using a pencil on a string. lol

All legal documents require - ink.
i heard this discussed during the week.
pencils are cheap and can easily be stored between elections
pens tend to dry out

and yes, people would steal them

Cheap or not - it can be erased.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 18 May 2019 04:30:08 GMT

@domino-710 wrote:
And what is it with voting - using a pencil on a string. lol

All legal documents require - ink.

@domino-710 wrote:

Cheap or not - it can be erased.

it is simply a matter of convenience. Pencils can be sharpened, pens need replacing if they stop working. Voters can take a pen to the booth and use that pen to make their vote.

I have worked on elections before. When there were ’quiet times’ we used to go around and sharpen every pencil.

I have often read that use of pencil would allow a vote to be changed at some later time. That is just ridiculous.

When the papers are counted they are counted at the booth at which they were made. Tables are put together to make one large counting area. ALL counters sit around the same counting space. We were not off in our own little corner counting votes.

Each party is allowed to have volunteer scrutineers to monitor the count. When I was sorting the papers for counting, there was always one Lib/Nat scrutineer and one Labor scrutineer watching me sort. They are not allowed to touch ballot papers, but are allowed to ask to look closely at a ballot paper.

As the votes are sorted they are also sorted for 2nd preference. The AEC would nominate who they thought would be the top two candidates, so sorting was not complicated.

Let’s say that the two top candidates nominated were Lib and Labor. Votes for an independent would be sorted into a pile for Lib preferences higher that Labor OR a pile for Labor preferences higher than Lib. This would allow the scrutineers to report the preference flow for their party. Parties let media such as ABC know what their scrutineers report which is why they can predict a winner before the AEC ‘declare’ the result.

After I sorted the ballot papers I would count them into bundles of 50 and pass them off to the deputy returning officer. Once all papers were counted the DRO would fill in the return form indicating the results of our ‘count’. Scrutineers would see this count and make their own notes so they could phone the results in to their party.

What I have explained above should debunk the conspiracy theory that use of pencil is open to fraud through votes being changed at the count. The counting and reporting method has numerous checks and balances.

For those who are still not convinced that use of pencils is safe, then consider this: there are many people involved I the counting at the booths. The counters are not required to declare their political persuasion. So, when I was counting the votes the person next to me may have been from a different political persuasion to me. Does anybody seriously think I would have been able to change a ballot paper and not be seen doing so? Notwithstanding the fact that when counting we DID NOT have pencils on the table.

Initial count returns were phoned through to the Returning Officer for our electorate. So, even as the papers were transported back to a central location the count count not be manipulated as the numbers were at the AEC before the papers. A Deputy Returning Officer in charge of a booth could not manipulate the result by changing the papers before submitting them.

I was once in charge of a polling booth. It was back in 1988 and I got to travel to an isolated spot where we had about 80 people vote. There were only two of us working that booth. There was one Liberal Party scrutineer who watched us count the papers. It took us all of a few minutes to have the papers sorted, counted, wrapped and packed for returning to the AEC. I had about a forty minute drive back to the AEC office and I had all the booth votes returned by about 7pm.
I have worked at larger booths where sorting and counting was not completed until about 10pm.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

imastawka — Sat, 18 May 2019 04:29:57 GMT

Americans punch holes in their voting cards.

Can't erase that.

But then they don't have preferential voting.

One punch for one pollie. (and curiously, that sounds good to me)

As for the sign....it's obviously put there by the Liberal Party.

From the link -

The text of the poster appears to be written in the style of an official instruction to voters:

"Correct way to vote.

"On the green voting card, put preference 1 next to the Liberal Party. The other boxes can be numbered from smallest to highest."

and then -

AEC state manager Steve Kennedy has told the ABC that the commission has considered the complaint and found the posters did not breach election laws.

"Whilst the AEC would prefer that parties or lobby groups don't use the colour purple, the AEC doesn't own the colour purple and there is nothing restricting the use of this," he said.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

davidc4430 — Sat, 18 May 2019 04:40:34 GMT

i agree, obviously someone wants to convince non english reading voters to vote liberal first

but it doesnt prove the liberals either did it or knew about it.

i'm not saying they didnt do it, just it requires more proof than the obvious...lol

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

domino-710 — Sat, 18 May 2019 05:03:05 GMT

@imastawka wrote:
Americans punch holes in their voting cards.

Can't erase that.

But then they don't have preferential voting.

One punch for one pollie. (and curiously, that sounds good to me)

LOL - Punch a Pollie.

Well it didn't work too well for Hillary.

CNN)More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than any other losing presidential candidate in US history.

The Democrat outpaced President-elect Donald Trump by almost 2.9 million votes, with 65,844,954 (48.2%) to his 62,979,879 (46.1%), according to revised and certified final election results from all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Not exactly first past the post :

The United States Electoral College is a body of electors established by the United States Constitution, constituted every four years for the sole purpose of electing the president and vice president of the United States.

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

martinw-48 — Sat, 18 May 2019 05:14:01 GMT

Hardly a democracy when a small amount of privileged people decide the outcome

Re: Liberals - This is a bit low

domino-710 — Sat, 18 May 2019 05:31:14 GMT

Well - I've done the deed.

Geez how many trees went on the metre long one. lol

Oh - go the ' Pirate Party '.