topic Re: A better alternative in Community Spirit

A better alternative

martinw-48 — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:01:03 GMT

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626?pfmredir=sm

These will be the answer not battery electric vehicles.

Re: A better alternative

ecar3483 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:39:45 GMT

It sounds good.

And the drawback is?

Everything comes with a cost.

If I want to drive from Sydney to Perth, can I refuel with hydrogen along the way?

"Of course you can... There's a dedicated network of hydrogen refuelling stations all the way across".

That sounds great... How does the hydrogen get to the refuelling stations?

"Diesel powered tankers deliver it...".

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the exercise of driving a "Green" car that ultimately relies on diesel for it's fuel?

Speaks into wrist microphone... "We've got a trouble maker here...", ha ha.

Really, bring on this bold, shiny, brand new future with it's grand innovations.

But when you show them to me, don't lie to me and don't leave things out.

If the car's only good for fifteen years, tell me, so I can plan for that.

Don't try to hard sell me on a "Wonder" car if all I'm going to do, years down the line, is exactly that - look at it, and wonder... Why?

Talk to me like I'm an adult, or, alternatively, do you see that short pier over there?:

Go and take a long walk...

🙂

Re: A better alternative

davidc4430 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:47:17 GMT

are you saying trucks will only ever be powered by petrol or diesel?

so we are in big trouble then, give up guys, dont bother finding alternative power sources.

Re: A better alternative

martinw-48 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:51:31 GMT

The trucks won't be only powered by diesel or petrol.

Re: A better alternative

davidc4430 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 11:08:35 GMT

@martinw-48 wrote:
The trucks won't be only powered by diesel or petrol.

of course not, to think the smart boffins at HQ wont think up something new to power buses and trucks and trains ect in the future would be silly

was a time when there were people who said 'you'll never replace the horse and cart mate!'

Re: A better alternative

martinw-48 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 11:12:12 GMT

I know.
Whenever I get into an argument about how the internal combustion engine is going to be phased out people shout me down and I tell them to go to the creek and get a bucket of water for their horse.
Then when they say that they have water in their house and no horses but a car.
I say exactly my point.
Everything changes whether you want it to or not

Re: A better alternative

davidc4430 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:41:24 GMT

@martinw-48 wrote:
I know.
Whenever I get into an argument about how the internal combustion engine is going to be phased out people shout me down and I tell them to go to the creek and get a bucket of water for their horse.
Then when they say that they have water in their house and no horses but a car.
I say exactly my point.
Everything changes whether you want it to or not

the important part of whatever they invent is the part where we the consumers will have to keep paying to stay mobile

like we are now for fuel

heaven to bid they invent a car that runs on sea water!

Re: A better alternative

viewmont1071 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:06:13 GMT

"Industrial" Hydrogen is mostly formed from fossil fuels ie natural gas and coal and is therefore as a fuel by definition not a "renewable". The rusted on fossil fuel suppliers would rather this pertinent fact be left ....over there.... with the big lump (of coal) under the carpet.

Electolysis presently produces approximately 4% of the worlds Hydrogen needs with over 95% being formed from traditional fossil fuels

Re: A better alternative

martinw-48 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:20:15 GMT

Of course infrastructure is lagging and currently Hydrogen is produced by polluting means.
That does not mean that changes won't be made that make Hydrogen powered vehicles practical.
The tin can was invented years before the can opener was.
A hundred years ago there were vehicles trying to negotiate dirt cart tracks then the bitumen roads were invented.
Necessity is the mother of invention

Re: A better alternative

viewmont1071 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:55:03 GMT

@martinw-48 wrote:
Of course infrastructure is lagging and currently Hydrogen is produced by polluting means.
That does not mean that changes won't be made that make Hydrogen powered vehicles practical.
The tin can was invented years before the can opener was.
A hundred years ago there were vehicles trying to negotiate dirt cart tracks then the bitumen roads were invented.
Necessity is the mother of invention

and i would suggest that Hydrogen is presently not a renewable energy source whereas solar energy/wind energy/wave energy is a renewable

re the tin can...what do you think the purpose of a tin can that couldnt be opened was???

Re: A better alternative

springyzone — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 22:29:08 GMT

I can remember about 10 years back, there was something on one of the science shows (Australian) about either air or water fueled vehicles. I forget exact details.

Apparently they were already viable at that stage and being used for forklifts in some factories and they mentioned the technology could be used in power boats and eventually cars.

I too believe that nothing stays the same & that change is inevitable. But I don't have the scientific background to be able to predict exactly what those changes will be. All I know is our current affair with petrol has really only been in totally full swing for about 80 years and it can't go on forever. It probably can't even go on another 80 years.

But there will be factions that fight that as long as they can. There are a lot of people and companies whose fortunes are tied up with oil and conventional fuels and it is going to take a fair bit of money for conversions.

For instance, let's say hydrogen cars are easy enough to produce and come off the production line, they could only be driven along routes where there were hydrogen fill up stations and I imagine that for quite a while, that could be limited. But then again, that must have been the case in about the 1920s, when cars started rolling out of the factories. There would not have been a petrol station on every corner back then, it would have taken time.

But maybe we are thinking about this the wrong way. We're imagining a world where people own cars as they do now, and drive them around and refuel etc

Maybe that won't be the case at all. I can't see us all going to 'public transport' as we know it, but maybe we'll be able to summon little automated travel pods when we need them, who knows. They won't be run on petrol though. We'll have to move on from that.