topic Re: another company ripping off workers? in Community Spirit

another company ripping off workers?

davidc4430 — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 12:18:55 GMT

Grill'd burger chain accused of keeping young workers in underpaid roles through traineeships

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-07/grilld-burger-chain-accused-of-using-traineeships-to-underpay/11776696

seems to be a weekly thing finding companies underpaying staff

i bet the CEO isnt being underpaid

Re: another company ripping off workers?

hannahmallory — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 13:52:50 GMT

Interestng.

"I love the work and I love who I work with. I don't want to leave my job, I'd rather just get paid fairly for it and be able to survive on the wage that I get."

Even without the scheme the staff are being underpad since Morrison's government got rid of penalty rates. Looking after the high end and spitting on the low.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

martinw-48 — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 16:47:01 GMT

No David.
You have it all wrong.
If the poor feel comfortable they won't aspire to be rich.
Scott is doing the nicest thing to the poor.
They are lazy and uninspired to become rorters and tax evaders. For they are noble ways to steal.
If you defraud Centrelink you are vile and evil and must even be punished if you haven't defrauded Centrelink but if you steal the tax payers money directly at the source you are holy and chaste.
I soldier of the Lord that can do no evil

Re: another company ripping off workers?

chameleon54 — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 21:20:39 GMT

Another company ripping off workers ?

I,m glad you put the question mark at the end dave.

Cant speak about the particular company in the feature, but one of my kids had issues at school and left early. They already had a part time job with a similar high profile burger chain. The chain offered the child the same traineeship ( certificate 3 in retail ) the featured kids are doing at similar wages. ( around $14.50 per hour ).

As part of the traineeship the school leaver was given full time employment for the 12 months the course took. Something that is uncommon for kids in these industries. They also received proper training and gained accreditation. On completing the course, the company offered them a duty managers position with career path to store manager, regional manager etc.

Our child moved quickly onto other, higher calibre employment within the hospitality industry where their experience and qualifications where recognised. On leaving the burger joint, our child was successful in gaining a more senior position with some responsibility and quite high pay rate for age in a position that was the envy of their mates who where just leaving school and trying to enter the job market.

Its very easy to knock these sorts of schemes, but kids straight out of school need further experience and training before they are ready to take on more responsible, higher paying positions. This collaboration between industry and Government is a great way to give them that training, similar to an apprenticeship. Having experienced the positive benefits first hand with my child, I would recommend the programme to others.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

springyzone — Sat, 07 Dec 2019 22:42:41 GMT

I found chameleon's post interesting as that sounds like a traineeship done right.

What needs to happen to prevent glitches or misuse of the concept is that a traineeship should need to be completed within a set time range eg 1-2 years.

It should not drag on forever.

But I think it is perfectly fair enough that young workers on traineeships are paid less. The truth is that they don't have the experience or the skills, nor do they necessarily carry the responsibility that someone like a manager might have.

This is the same sort of thing that happens in every industry, to some extent. For instance in teaching, you'll see an awful lot of first and second year teachers employed, often ahead of more qualified & experienced people. I have seen this happen to a friend and it can be quite humiliating when someone who has been at a school for years, often given the more 'difficult' kids in her class because she is so capable, to go to interview & miss out to a graduate with *no* experience. in fact one where she had to step in and take some children out of a class as the graduate wasn't coping with them as a student teacher!

So why does this happen? Pay rate, of course.

This doesn't mean I support the obscene payments some CEOs are given, by the way.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

chameleon54 — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:13:25 GMT

The fast food chains often cop a bad rap for supposedly exploiting young kids, but I have found the opposite to be the case. Sure they employ a lot of school aged kids because they are cheap labor, but they also provide a first step on the employment ladder and great experience on how to actually put the mobile phone down, hustle, and get stuff done in a limited time frame as well as industry standard training programmes such as food handling, customer service etc.

As well as the child mentioned in the previous post I have another child who has just left school and not really sure what they want to do. They had a part time, after school job at a different fast food joint ( the sandwich one ) and immediately on leaving school a few weeks ago simply took up extra hours as a shift manager at a neighbouring store to be working 30 - 40 hours per week. Basically just walked into full time employment.

One of my nephews now in his late 20,s, had an after school, burger joint job and on leaving school could not find further employment. He stayed with the group, worked his way into employment at their highest profile, central city location, worked his way up the food chain ( pun intended ) and is now the senior manager of the store. His has recently been offered the job of managing two other stores ( on top of the central city one ) owned by the chain and then a pathway into management at company level rather than store level. He is currently deciding whether to take up the offer or move into accounting, something he has been studying for several years.

There's no doubt employers in other industries place a value on the resumes of kids who have a consistent history of working in the fast food chains as they know, if they can stand the pressures of that industry, they are likely to be quality workers who know how to move, be flexible and get the job done.

I suspect the main problem with the kids in the OP,s link is they expect to be sitting in the managers chair the moment they leave school, rather than starting at the boring bottom and working their way up.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:03:49 GMT

When evaluating the ethics of these fast food chain traineeships there are three aspects that need to be considered:

1) What percentage of staff are on traineeships?

2) How is the training structured (I.e. does it consist of anything more than learnng how to flip burgers and take orders?

3) How long does a traineeship last and is there some kind of meaningful recognition (certificate) on completion?

Re: another company ripping off workers?

martinw-48 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:39:57 GMT

I had to do a traineeship once.
I told the boss if I didn't get paid I'll walk.
He paid me and made me promise not to tell all the others.
I told them all but none were brave enough to demand payment, their loss

Re: another company ripping off workers?

domino-710 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:55:27 GMT

@martinw-48 wrote:
I had to do a traineeship once.
I told the boss if I didn't get paid I'll walk.
He paid me and made me promise not to tell all the others.
I told them all but none were brave enough to demand payment, their loss
LOL - begs the question - of WHY - he didn't just let you walk.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:38:15 GMT

Possibly because he knew the 'traineeship' was of dubous legality, and was worried Martin might challenge it in court.

Oops, nearly forgot, LOL

Re: another company ripping off workers?

lyhargr_0 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:04:18 GMT

@chameleon54 wrote:
The fast food chains often cop a bad rap for supposedly exploiting young kids, but I have found the opposite to be the case. Sure they employ a lot of school aged kids because they are cheap labor, but they also provide a first step on the employment ladder and great experience on how to actually put the mobile phone down, hustle, and get stuff done in a limited time frame as well as industry standard training programmes such as food handling, customer service etc.

As well as the child mentioned in the previous post I have another child who has just left school and not really sure what they want to do. They had a part time, after school job at a different fast food joint ( the sandwich one ) and immediately on leaving school a few weeks ago simply took up extra hours as a shift manager at a neighbouring store to be working 30 - 40 hours per week. Basically just walked into full time employment.

One of my nephews now in his late 20,s, had an after school, burger joint job and on leaving school could not find further employment. He stayed with the group, worked his way into employment at their highest profile, central city location, worked his way up the food chain ( pun intended ) and is now the senior manager of the store. His has recently been offered the job of managing two other stores ( on top of the central city one ) owned by the chain and then a pathway into management at company level rather than store level. He is currently deciding whether to take up the offer or move into accounting, something he has been studying for several years.

There's no doubt employers in other industries place a value on the resumes of kids who have a consistent history of working in the fast food chains as they know, if they can stand the pressures of that industry, they are likely to be quality workers who know how to move, be flexible and get the job done.

I suspect the main problem with the kids in the OP,s link is they expect to be sitting in the managers chair the moment they leave school, rather than starting at the boring bottom and working their way up.

If only they could teach them to cook and assemble a decent hamburger, their training would be complete. Getting the order correct once in while would also be a BIG help

Re: another company ripping off workers?

martinw-48 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:36:26 GMT

I'm getting the feeling that I'm the butt of some joke here but I am paranoid.
He couldn't afford to have me leave because he had a contract to fill in a specified time and he needed all the employees he could get that were smart enough to pass the required testing to achieve the qualifications required and as we all had been employed for months before doing this training I argued that as I was already an employee that I should be paid for further training

Re: another company ripping off workers?

davewil1964 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 12:28:14 GMT

I had a traineeship once.

It was 4 years and, from memory, I was paid 25%, 40%, 75% and 90% of the applicable award.

It was called an apprenticeship. Traineeships and internships could well be something different. American.

The bottom line, however, is that unskilled workers can't expect to be paid the same as those who have acquired the skills. Unless you consider that somebody who doesn't know their backside from their elbow should be paid the same as somebody who knows where those body parts are.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

myoclon1cjerk — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:41:10 GMT

They left out some like Chemist Warehouse. Good that Morrison and co.are trying to put the kibosh on the union movement.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/here-s-a-running-list-of-australian-businesses-that-have-underpaid-staff-in-2019

Re: another company ripping off workers?

chameleon54 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:18:17 GMT

@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
They left out some like Chemist Warehouse. Good that Morrison and co.are trying to put the kibosh on the union movement.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/here-s-a-running-list-of-australian-businesses-that-have-underpaid-staff-in-2019

There's a distinct difference though between companies that illegally underpay staff and companies that offer genuine traineeships and apprenticeships with salaries reflective of untrained employees abilities..

Re: another company ripping off workers?

chameleon54 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:31:15 GMT

The whole underpayment of employees thing by so many companies raises another fundamental question of whether Australia's wages are a true reflection of the employees productive capacity when compared to other countries that we compete with in the global economy.

We may have been an island, fairly isolated from the rest of the world in the 1950,s and 60,s, but with modern communication and transport systems, nations can no longer live in an economic bubble. Wages must be internationally competitive or employment will simply go elsewhere.

This isn't just a random theory, its already happening. For proof you need to look no further than Australia's once vibrant manufacturing sector. Its already gone along with the millions of jobs it provided.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

debra9275 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:57:57 GMT

it seems to be happening a lot lately, doesn't it

Re: another company ripping off workers?

myoclon1cjerk — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:12:25 GMT

That's true, however some countries have a decent wages system and continue to have a manufacturing base, Japan and Germany for example. Even the U.S with its rust belt still makes things.
What gets me in this country is the government's obsession of a low dollar. That might be good for a few people (business owners) but for the rest of us all it means is higher prices at the checkout. With stagnating wages that leaves less money for discretionary spending.
Our dollar has dropped from 0.77 U.S to 0.67 U.S in the last 6 or so months. If it's so great for the economy, how come unemployment is still at 5.3%?. In the U.S where their currency is pretty strong, unemployment is around 4%. In Japan, unemployment is around 2.6%. Ours hasn't been that low for probably close to 50 years.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

myoclon1cjerk — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:24:34 GMT

At least we won't have to worry about Harris Scarfe ripping off employees. They've just gone into receivership.

Re: another company ripping off workers?

martinw-48 — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:52:50 GMT

The loss of manufacturing in Australia is because of greed.
Cheaper to make it overseas.
I still buy Australian made, it's just second hand on ebay now