topic Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"! in Community Spirit

"It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 08:58:46 GMT

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has claimed the date of Australia Day should not be changed despite fierce debate over the issue in recent years.

Many Indigenous leaders have been pushing for the date of Australia Day to be moved from January 26, the date that marks the First Fleet landing in 1788 and the beginning of British colonisation.

A new survey released by the Institute of Public Affairs on Monday said despite the debate, 71 per cent of Australians were in favour of keeping the date as is.

The poll found the 71 per cent believe “Australia has a history to be proud of” and “Australia Day is an authentic way for Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians to celebrate being Australian”.

On Monday morning Sunrise breakfast show co-host Samantha Armytage grilled Mr Morrison over whether he agreed with the results of the poll or if he thought the date should be changed.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/scott-morrison-shuts-down-sam-armytage-australia-day-question-015251182.html

Good on him!

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

davewil1964 — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 09:35:20 GMT

So a minority of people don't agree it should changed and there's no debate?

A minority of people didn't agree with same sex marriage and there seems to be plenty of debate about that.

A significant majority of people think climate change is an existential issue, but there are those that want to ~~deny~~ debate that.

Are debates only to be entertained when the majority agree with you?

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

lyhargr_0 — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 09:43:25 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has claimed the date of Australia Day should not be changed despite fierce debate over the issue in recent years.

Many Indigenous leaders have been pushing for the date of Australia Day to be moved from January 26, the date that marks the First Fleet landing in 1788 and the beginning of British colonisation.

A new survey released by the Institute of Public Affairs on Monday said despite the debate, 71 per cent of Australians were in favour of keeping the date as is.

The poll found the 71 per cent believe “Australia has a history to be proud of” and “Australia Day is an authentic way for Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians to celebrate being Australian”.

On Monday morning Sunrise breakfast show co-host Samantha Armytage grilled Mr Morrison over whether he agreed with the results of the poll or if he thought the date should be changed.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/scott-morrison-shuts-down-sam-armytage-australia-day-question-015251182.html

Good on him!

Wouldn't matter what date they changed it to, there would still be a minority group who would protest, there would never be a "right" date to hold it ...... Maybe they need to just just abolish it? Personally I dont give a hoot whether it its held or not ( or when )

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

lionrose.7 — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 09:56:32 GMT

Nobody cares what Scott Morrison says any more, he ill not be around for to long.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

lyhargr_0 — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 09:57:40 GMT

@lionrose.7 wrote:
Nobody cares what Scott Morrison says any more, he ill not be around for to long.

So he being replaced is he? when?

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 10:57:30 GMT

@lyhargr_0 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has claimed the date of Australia Day should not be changed despite fierce debate over the issue in recent years.

Many Indigenous leaders have been pushing for the date of Australia Day to be moved from January 26, the date that marks the First Fleet landing in 1788 and the beginning of British colonisation.

A new survey released by the Institute of Public Affairs on Monday said despite the debate, 71 per cent of Australians were in favour of keeping the date as is.

The poll found the 71 per cent believe “Australia has a history to be proud of” and “Australia Day is an authentic way for Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians to celebrate being Australian”.

On Monday morning Sunrise breakfast show co-host Samantha Armytage grilled Mr Morrison over whether he agreed with the results of the poll or if he thought the date should be changed.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/scott-morrison-shuts-down-sam-armytage-australia-day-question-015251182.html

Good on him!

Wouldn't matter what date they changed it to, there would still be a minority group who would protest, there would never be a "right" date to hold it ...... Maybe they need to just just abolish it? Personally I dont give a hoot whether it its held or not ( or when )

Really, I can relate to the Aborigines saying it's Invasion day". From their point of view, it was, and they fought long and hard against it.

Still, it's an Australia Day traditoin, as we know it, and it should stay that way, at least until Aussies drop off the perch and and the New Aussies take over.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

tezza2844 — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:24:01 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@lyhargr_0 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

Still, it's an Australia Day traditoin, as we know it, and it should stay that way, at least until Aussies drop off the perch and and the New Aussies take over.

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants, and the New Aussies would be people like you and me whose ancestors were boat people (later plane people) who came here on Invasion day and afterwards.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

k1ooo-slr-sales — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 13:38:15 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:

Still, it's an Australia Day traditoin, as we know it, and it should stay that way, at least until Aussies drop off the perch and and the New Aussies take over.

serious question here, just who are the New Aussies you post about?

I won't even try and guess, I'll wait for a reply.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 20:41:01 GMT

@tezza2844 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@lyhargr_0 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

Still, it's an Australia Day tradition, as we know it, and it should stay that way, at least until Aussies drop off the perch and and the New Aussies take over.

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants

No. there was no "Australia" before white settlement, so the aborigines would not have been Aussies.

, and the New Aussies would be people like you and me whose ancestors were boat people (later plane people) who came here on Invasion day and afterwards.

Yes we were called "New Australians" when we first arrived here. We assimililated and took on the traditions of our new country. I guess we're old "New Australians now".

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

k1ooo-slr-sales — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 21:08:53 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

in your opinion, are any other tradions at risk from these "New Australians"?

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

freddie*rooster — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 21:42:03 GMT

For a debate to be succesful all participants must be rational and share

views on the topic at hand. They must also be accepting of different opinions

and suggestions. It's not constructive if 'idiots' try to take over the debate to satisfy

their own agenda.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

springyzone — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 21:50:15 GMT

@tezza2844 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants, and the New Aussies would be people like you and me whose ancestors were boat people (later plane people) who came here on Invasion day and afterwards.

Really? This is the politically correct version I keep hearing but what interests me is how you would like to date this.

How many years must a person's ancestors have been in a country before they qualify as that nationality or as belonging to that country?

If their ancestry doesn't go back 40,000 years they don't qualify at all?

It's true that white Australians weren't the original inhabitants but they have been around on this continent for almost 250 years now and that should count for something.

By your reckoning then, people who came here only eg 50 years ago should not have the status of those who can trace back to the first fleet, because it's a numbers game.

Very, very few countries have not had various invasions over time. Who could claim to be British? Or American?

There was nothing shameful about the first settlement of Australia. Which is not to say that everything that happened to the Aborigines after that was right. But put it this way, settlement of one sort or another was always going to happen, nothing stays the same forever. And I think Australians have the right to call themselves Australians. It's our country too now.

I don't see the Americans getting tangled up and apologetic about their national day (and yes I know it has a different back history). But what right have they to a national day if they are not the original people?

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

chameleon54 — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 22:11:13 GMT

Aborigines where just the first boat people to arrive here. Someone of aboriginal heretige is no more or less Australian than me and their views on the country have no more or less value than mine. We are all Australians together.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

the_great_she_elephant — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 01:08:33 GMT

Icyfroth wrote: The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

Don't panic Icy. 150 or so years ago it was those nasty Irish Papists who were going to take over the country and enslave us all to the Pope.

Guess what - it didn't happen?

Australia’s own Irish history wasn’t an easy one. There were Irish Catholics among the convicts brought here, some for political acts but most for the typical crimes that led to transportation. They were tightly controlled under fear of rebellion, not allowed to get together to practise their faith. Australia’s first Catholic priest, Father James Dixon, was a convict transported after a 1798 Irish rebellion, and in 1803 he was allowed to hold Australia’s first Catholic mass. But the following year there was a rebellion of Irish convicts at Castle Hill, which the governor believed had been plotted at mass – and that was it. No more masses. It was 1820 before another priest was officially appointed.

the next time someone wants to ban a mosque, let’s remember that we banned Catholicism for most of Sydney’s early years for the same reason: fear that religious observance would let those different people get together in numbers, and plot.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/australia-once-banned-catholics-from-mass-and-vilified-the-irish-havent-we-learned-anything

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 02:33:42 GMT

@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

in your opinion, are any other tradions at risk from these "New Australians"?

Maybe going down the pub for a beer after work on Friday nights/

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 02:38:24 GMT

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Icyfroth wrote: The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

Don't panic Icy. 150 or so years ago it was those nasty Irish Papists who were going to take over the country and enslave us all to the Pope.
Guess what - it didn't happen?

Australia’s own Irish history wasn’t an easy one. There were Irish Catholics among the convicts brought here, some for political acts but most for the typical crimes that led to transportation. They were tightly controlled under fear of rebellion, not allowed to get together to practise their faith. Australia’s first Catholic priest, Father James Dixon, was a convict transported after a 1798 Irish rebellion, and in 1803 he was allowed to hold Australia’s first Catholic mass. But the following year there was a rebellion of Irish convicts at Castle Hill, which the governor believed had been plotted at mass – and that was it. No more masses. It was 1820 before another priest was officially appointed.

the next time someone wants to ban a mosque, let’s remember that we banned Catholicism for most of Sydney’s early years for the same reason: fear that religious observance would let those different people get together in numbers, and plot.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/australia-once-banned-catholics-from-mass-and-vilified-the-irish-havent-we-learned-anything

I'm not panicking...

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 02:39:26 GMT

@freddie*rooster wrote:
For a debate to be succesful all participants must be rational and share

views on the topic at hand. They must also be accepting of different opinions

and suggestions. It's not constructive if 'idiots' try to take over the debate to satisfy

their own agenda.

Totally agree.

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

tezza2844 — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 09:31:24 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

in your opinion, are any other tradions at risk from these "New Australians"?
Maybe going down the pub for a beer after work on Friday nights/

I'll drink to that

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

tezza2844 — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 09:37:53 GMT

@icyfroth wrote:
@tezza2844 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@lyhargr_0 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

Still, it's an Australia Day tradition, as we know it, and it should stay that way, at least until Aussies drop off the perch and and the New Aussies take over.

, and the New Aussies would be people like you and me whose ancestors were boat people (later plane people) who came here on Invasion day and afterwards.

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants

No. there was no "Australia" before white settlement, so the aborigines would not have been Aussies.
Yes we were called "New Australians" when we first arrived here. We assimililated and took on the traditions of our new country. I guess we're old "New Australians now".

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants

No. there was no "Australia" before white settlement, so the aborigines would not have been Aussies.

So who were they. This place was once known as New Hollandia or something, maybe the great southern land?

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

I think that has be said before

Re: "It's Not Even a Debate"!

icyfroth — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 09:40:40 GMT

@tezza2844 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@tezza2844 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@lyhargr_0 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:

Still, it's an Australia Day tradition, as we know it, and it should stay that way, at least until Aussies drop off the perch and and the New Aussies take over.

, and the New Aussies would be people like you and me whose ancestors were boat people (later plane people) who came here on Invasion day and afterwards.

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants

No. there was no "Australia" before white settlement, so the aborigines would not have been Aussies.
Yes we were called "New Australians" when we first arrived here. We assimililated and took on the traditions of our new country. I guess we're old "New Australians now".

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

In think that "Aussies" would be the original inhabitants

No. there was no "Australia" before white settlement, so the aborigines would not have been Aussies.

So who were they. This place was once known as New Hollandia or something, maybe the great southern land?

The new wave of migrants are now the New Australians. They have their own traditions, and whether Australia Day as we know it will be carried into the future is uncertain.

I think that has be said before

But no-one seems to get it!