topic Re: Just give them back in Community Spirit

Just give them back

martinw-48 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 06:57:31 GMT

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-19/elgin-marbles-become-tense-point-in-brexit-talks/11980188?utm_source=abc_news&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_content=link&utm_campaign=abc_news

Re: Just give them back

bright.ton42 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:10:06 GMT

Yes they should but I doubt that they will. This has been going on for years.

They were taken under very dodgy circumstances.

Re: Just give them back

rogevibe — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:11:31 GMT

@martinw-48 wrote:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-19/elgin-marbles-become-tense-point-in-brexit-talks/11980188?utm_source=abc_news&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_content=link&utm_campaign=abc_news

I second that !

Re: Just give them back

ambercat16 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:11:38 GMT

I've heard that Gibraltar is a sore point too, with Spain renewing calls for it's return

https://www.ft.com/content/11b4dfdc-4da8-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5

Re: Just give them back

domino-710 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:13:02 GMT

They nicked them - and - are not going to return them.

The objects were removed from the Parthenon at Athens and from other ancient buildings and shipped to England by arrangement of Thomas Bruce, 7th Lord Elgin, who was British ambassador to the Ottoman Empire (1799–1803).

Re: Just give them back

davewil1964 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:23:40 GMT

@ambercat16 wrote:
I've heard that Gibraltar is a sore point too, with Spain renewing calls for it's return

https://www.ft.com/content/11b4dfdc-4da8-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5

The difference with Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands is that the inhabitants overwhelmingly wish to stay British.

The Elgin Marbles don't get a say.

Re: Just give them back

ambercat16 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:00:34 GMT

very true

I have been to Gibraltar and the locals (well, the few I managed to talk to in the short visit) consider themselves totally British

Re: Just give them back

icyfroth — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:12:02 GMT

@bright.ton42 wrote:
Yes they should but I doubt that they will. This has been going on for years.
They were taken under very dodgy circumstances.

Agree, they should be given back.

Re: Just give them back

joztamps — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:42:22 GMT

I don't disagree with giving them back, but from a negotiating point of view the English could say "Righto boys, one in all in, everybody turn out your pockets (read museums) and start shipping all "your" stuff back to whence it came"

Re: Just give them back

martinw-48 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 15:40:42 GMT

I'm fairly certain that only the Vikings went to England to steal stuff and in the end the English would ask them how much they wanted to save them the hassles of physically going there.
Unless I missed the part about the Greek invasion of England in history lessons.
Don't forget that a precedent was set when the British museum returned Aboriginal artifacts and I haven't heard of other countries having been asking for years for there stuff back.
Surely the fact that the Turks let this "Lord" steal some Greek statues makes it pretty dodgy.
Bit like having your neighbour open your garage and having a sale

Re: Just give them back

davidc4430 — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:43:37 GMT

@joztamps wrote:
I don't disagree with giving them back, but from a negotiating point of view the English could say "Righto boys, one in all in, everybody turn out your pockets (read museums) and start shipping all "your" stuff back to whence it came"

so fine, all countries holding 'stuff' they got way back when, either get written permission to have it from the govt of today where it came from or give it back.

cant see a problem with that.

of course they could offer to 'buy' the stuff

Re: Just give them back

joztamps — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 21:37:28 GMT

@davidc4430 wrote:
@joztamps wrote:
I don't disagree with giving them back, but from a negotiating point of view the English could say "Righto boys, one in all in, everybody turn out your pockets (read museums) and start shipping all "your" stuff back to whence it came"
so fine, all countries holding 'stuff' they got way back when, either get written permission to have it from the govt of today where it came from or give it back.
cant see a problem with that.
of course they could offer to 'buy' the stuff

It would be a total mare's nest if carried through to its logical conclusion.

It would make massive differences to the streetscapes of many cities (European and American mainly, but others as well) and would empty and fill churches, mosques, temples, museums and art galleries worldwide.

And deciding where they end up is another issue altogether.

For example, why should the Elgin Marbles go to the Greek Government and not to Turkey, successor to the then-ruling government, and the body from whom they were "stolen" (if it happened)?

And to take another example, do the St Marks Horses go to Chios/Greece, Rome/Italy (successor to Byzantium) or Constantinople/Istanbul/Turkey (another successor to Byzantium)?