topic Re: Bondi Junction massacre in Community Spirit

Bondi Junction massacre

nicnacs_4u — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 22:47:53 GMT

Approx 4.30pm a lone male went and stabbed 6 people to death at Bondi Junction shopping mall yesterday:-(

Another day to remember but for all the wrong reasons. What would make someone do this?

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

springyzone — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 22:58:49 GMT

Severe mental halth issues, I would guess.

From what I am reading, the man was 'known to police.'

So this didn't come entirely out of the blue. Obviously no one expected him to do what he did, but he was on the radar.

Sometimes I think we have too many seriously mentally ill people walking around free.

At least the police woman who shot him hasn't had to face investigations etc

A few years back, I was on another board when a police officer shot a man/teen with a machete. Someone who had run through a shopping centre threatening people then ran at a police officer with it when confronted. And half the people on the board were saying the police officer should be sacked, no need to shoot anyone who 'only' had a knife, unfair etc

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

*sons_n_daughters* — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 00:12:02 GMT

The Yanks are out in force over this. "Maybe you need to tighten your gun laws a bit more to prevent this". "Glad you have such tight gun laws. They really helped in this situation". It's because we have such strict gun laws that only 6 people died, and not 60 or 600, or even 6,000. With an automatic weapon, he could have wiped out half the shopping centre in the space of a few minutes.

Some reports in the news say people were saying he appeared to be heavily intoxicated with drugs, or something. Of course that's hearsay, but it would certainly make sense. Thankfully the maniac is dead. At least the families of the victims won't have to go through months of court battles, only for the maniac to get off because he has mental health issues, or was under the influence of drugs.

So many people yesterday showed the true Aussie spirit. Thinking of others before themselves. Instead of running for their lives, they tried so hard to help others, and ward off the crazy man. There were many heroes yesterday, including that amazing police woman.

R.I.P to those that lost their lives yesterday. This time yesterday, they didn't know that was to be their last day. So sad for those left behind. I hope the other injured make a full recovery and get any help needed to recover mentally.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

springyzone — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 01:17:47 GMT

@*sons_n_daughters* wrote:
The Yanks are out in force over this. "Maybe you need to tighten your gun laws a bit more to prevent this". "Glad you have such tight gun laws. They really helped in this situation". It's because we have such strict gun laws that only 6 people died, and not 60 or 600, or even 6,000. With an automatic weapon, he could have wiped out half the shopping centre in the space of a few minutes.

I was thinking the same thing. Obviously a lot of harm can be done with a knife, a bat, a chisel, a hammer, you name it.

But a gun is made for one purpose only, to kill effectively. And from a distance.

I can always recall an American on one of the forums saying the advantage of guns was members of the public had them and could shoot down a killer etc

Imagine the chaos if we had bullets ricocheting everywhere.

Knives can kill but guns can kill quicker. We are extremely lucky guns aren't as easy to come by.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

countessalmirena — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 02:43:29 GMT

Overwhelmingly awful - I felt especially horrified at the stabbing of the baby, and the news that her mother, also stabbed, has died in hospital.

If this murderer was using drugs in addition to having a mental condition, to me that is an aggravation, not an excuse. At this stage we don’t know… so like everyone else I’m sad, appalled, and wanting to know why this man did what he did.

Hats off to the very brave police officer who acted as necessary to prevent further attacks.

Everyone who has lost a loved one in this senseless brutal attack - we can only imagine the hell of their shock and first sharp grief as they try to process what’s occurred.

A better solution is needed. Anyone whose mental condition is so unstable - stop them categorically from use of illicit drugs; stop giving free passes; treat them adequately; long-term, we need strategies to prevent such issues where they can be prevented (foetal alcohol syndrome is preventable, for instance…)

All the rhetoric in the world, the political phrases, the granting of bail on mental health grounds without any addressing of the real danger and need for immediate protections - all of the blah… how powerless it is.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

twyngwyn — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 03:09:15 GMT

Bondi Junction stabbing: Joel Cauchi’s history revealed (theage.com.au)

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

*sons_n_daughters* — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:16:33 GMT

@springyzone wrote:
@*sons_n_daughters* wrote:
The Yanks are out in force over this. "Maybe you need to tighten your gun laws a bit more to prevent this". "Glad you have such tight gun laws. They really helped in this situation". It's because we have such strict gun laws that only 6 people died, and not 60 or 600, or even 6,000. With an automatic weapon, he could have wiped out half the shopping centre in the space of a few minutes.

I was thinking the same thing. Obviously a lot of harm can be done with a knife, a bat, a chisel, a hammer, you name it.
But a gun is made for one purpose only, to kill effectively. And from a distance.

I can always recall an American on one of the forums saying the advantage of guns was members of the public had them and could shoot down a killer etc
Imagine the chaos if we had bullets ricocheting everywhere.

Knives can kill but guns can kill quicker. We are extremely lucky guns aren't as easy to come by.

Except, they don't. Reason being, the loonie has walked in with an automatic rifle and started shooting at anything that moved. They can easily mow down 20 people in under 5 seconds. The members of the public don't have time to get their gun out and try and kill the shooter. They are usually dead before getting the chance.

Of all the mass shootings in the US, how many do you hear of where the killer was taken out by a member of the public? Very few, if any. They are no safer than you or me. Yet, they think they feel safe by being able to carry. I've given up trying to argue with them. It's pointless. They are brainwashed, and nothing is going to change it.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

sandypebbles — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 22:52:48 GMT

Like any addiction

Zero logic to their 'argument'

Disgusting such a large portion of the news last night was focused on this POS

Of course the 'mental illness' excuse which is used every single time someone does something . Always, always 'they were mentally ill'

Why then was this 'thing' allowed to move from QLD to NSW in the first place, if they were that 'mentally ill', drug addled, known to police, known obsession with guns and knives, why, why why were they permitted to move to another state

Mind you, they were 'with it' enough to avoid taken on people bigger than they were, to mostly target woman and a baby

Coward grub and nothing more

Does not deserve to have a name or the attention

Focus on the victims, first responders, hero bystanders, family and friends

That nobody piece of filth can rot in h**l

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

chameleon54 — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:21:57 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
Overwhelmingly awful - I felt especially horrified at the stabbing of the baby, and the news that her mother, also stabbed, has died in hospital.

If this murderer was using drugs in addition to having a mental condition, to me that is an aggravation, not an excuse. At this stage we don’t know… so like everyone else I’m sad, appalled, and wanting to know why this man did what he did.

Hats off to the very brave police officer who acted as necessary to prevent further attacks.

Everyone who has lost a loved one in this senseless brutal attack - we can only imagine the hell of their shock and first sharp grief as they try to process what’s occurred.

A better solution is needed. Anyone whose mental condition is so unstable - stop them categorically from use of illicit drugs; stop giving free passes; treat them adequately; long-term, we need strategies to prevent such issues where they can be prevented (foetal alcohol syndrome is preventable, for instance…)

All the rhetoric in the world, the political phrases, the granting of bail on mental health grounds without any addressing of the real danger and need for immediate protections - all of the blah… how powerless it is.

" and wanting to know why this man did what he did. "

While we will never know why this man did what he did, our completely failed mental health and social services systems ( due to lack of financial resources ) is undoubtably a contributing factor.

* People with psychiatric conditions are rarely diagnosed until adulthood, due to changes in the brain of growing adolescents presenting different symptoms at different ages.

* There is also a reluctance to " brand " a child or adolescent with a significant, permanent psychiatric condition as a youth. This means there is very little help or education available, designed to treat the specific condition until the person reaches adulthood. By then the person is already badly damaged by their own condition and rejection from society meaning they often lose contact with the medical system and may not ever receive a diagnosis or treatment for their condition.

* Many people with psychiatric conditions are rejected by their families, schools and society due to extreme behaviours and end up without the normal basic support mechanisms that most people take for granted. We know this man was estranged from his family.

* People with psychiatric conditions are " known to police " . This means they are regularly targetted for " street stops " or searches and questioning when they are simply walking to the shops or bus stop. If they drive they will be " flagged in the system, stopped and searched, often resulting in their cars ( which they sometimes live in ) being defected etc.

" This can escalate if the person becomes agitated resulting in arrest, the start of criminal records ( resisting arrest ) court appearances and unfortunately all to often " use of excessive force " .............code for police bashings while being arrested or later in the cells. .......Yes it happens regularly to these people .......they dont have the resources to challenge police brutality.

* They also lack the skills to manage their personal affairs and regularly live in unstable, unsafe accommodation or experience homelessness. This also results in minor crime such as shop lifting food etc. Again ingraining interactions with police.

* Due to rejection by mainstream society mentally unstable people are only socially accepted by other very vulnerable / damaged people. These associations entrench issues such as communal alcohol and drug use, violence etc.

* Due to their vulnerable existence and rejection from society people with psychiatric conditions often have to be extremely reactive and aggressive just to survive. Its a very dangerous world they live in. This is particularly so for young woman who regularly face abuse. They often need to be more volatile, aggressive and violent than young men, just to stay safe.

* There appears to be much less research directed towards psychiatric medication and medical intervention than other conditions. The medical system is still using drugs developed in the 1960's and 70's and electric shop therapy to treat common conditions. These often have major side effects meaning vulnerable people simply dont use them, self medicating with illegal street drugs which often have sedative effects such as marijuana.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

springyzone — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:26:17 GMT

Mental illness is very real, but the way we deal with it is inadequate.

I am of the opinion that at this stage, we are unable to cure some severe forms of mental illness.

Apparently in some states and with some offenders, the offender has to go to a police station and take their prescribed drugs for the day in front of officers, because with appropriate medication, a lot of these people can lead better lives. But if you leave them to their own devices, some schizophrenics will believe there is nothing wrong with them and just stop any medication.

So you're right, this man should not have been free to wander, or at least he may have needed to be under closer supervision.

I think there are massive gaps in our treatment of the mentally ill. (maybe for our physically ill too).

And I read that this man was signed up at several agencies as a male escort! Doesn't that make your blood run cold, it is the stuff of horror films. What sort of vetting do these agencies do?

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

sandypebbles — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:32:51 GMT

Yes, I know and understand it is real

But, every single time anyone attacks someone or goes on a criminal spree, it is always put down to 'mental illness'

Always

I do not believe for a second that mental illness is behind every single violent crime

Some people are just scum pure and simple

Of course, we can't say that, so they 'easy' thing to do is put the mentally ill label on their actions

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

sandypebbles — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:49:16 GMT

The other thing on the news, they kept saying the attack was not terror related

That is exactly what 'it' was (he is not worthy of being called a 'man')

A terrorist

Just because he was not part of an organised terrorist group does not mean he was not a terrorist

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

springyzone — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:50:28 GMT

Oh, I agree, mental illness is the new get out of jail free card.

Evil exists and you don't have to be mentally ill to be evil.

I also get very tired of the excuse of oh but he was on drugs at the time. Well, that's just another offence as far as I am concerned & should make the charges more serious. Not less.

Schizophrenia and drug taking is a big no-no. It makes people worse. That man would have known that. What's the bet though that he was also a drug taker?

I could lose the bet but I am suspicious.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

sandypebbles — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:53:31 GMT

Could not agree any more with everything you said

Got it exactly, spot on, 200%

And so many people who are in genuine need due to mental illness are denied real help because the focus is square on using too may resources to excuse criminals playing the card

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

chameleon54 — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:10:14 GMT

" Apparently in some states and with some offenders, the offender has to go to a police station and take their prescribed drugs for the day in front of officers, because with appropriate medication, a lot of these people can lead better lives. "

Would these be the same police stations where they may have been bashed a few months ago ? Would the Police officers be the same ones who regularly stop them while they are walking to the bus or who defected their car ( which they live in ) last week ?

Yes many police officers are very understanding and respectful, but there is a significant proportion ( maybe 30% ) who are nearly as unstable as the people they are dealing with. They go into the force because they are bullies and want to dominate others. Who better to express these urges on than vulnerable mentally ill people who have no avenue of recourse. The normal person in the street never see's this side of our police force but it is there.

" because with appropriate medication, a lot of these people can lead better lives. "

As already mentioned psychiatric conditions and medications are not considered in the same way as breast cancer treatment or common conditions affecting many people in the community.

There is less government funding allocated to these conditions ( worldwide ) and so less research and development of appropriate medications. We are still regularly using medications such as Lithium which was released in the 1940's to treat common psychiatric conditions.

Most psychiatric medications have major side effects, often leaving recipients feeling like zombies and unable to function at even basic levels. This leads to people refusing to take them.

What are the police going to do ? Go out and search the streets for them, because they didnt turn up at the station to take their pill ? A much better solution which is sometimes used is to provide quality public housing for these people and have a specialist nurse attend their home each day to ensure medication is taken.........But it costs money and takes a bit of effort and there are no votes in it.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

springyzone — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:52 GMT

Justice is a bit like a see saw. Maybe in the past, a lot of things were unfair but sometimes I think we have swung too far the other way these days and literally let some people get away with murder by letting them make excuses.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

chameleon54 — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 01:39:08 GMT

"So you're right, this man should not have been free to wander, or at least he may have needed to be under closer supervision. "

According to the media, the man had no history of violence, no criminal convictions of any sort, no history of domestic violence and no restraining orders ever placed against him. On what grounds should he have been forcibly detained in an institution and what institution should that be ?

We closed all of the " Mental Asylums " fourty years ago due to human rights concerns.

And how do you " closely supervise " someone who is homeless, transient and disconnected from all support services ? ( as experienced by the man with a knife )

It is worth reminding ourselves that as a society we have failed to provide anywhere near enough public / social housing and have restricted building practices with red tape to the extent that we have priced ourselves out of building new homes.

Invariably when housing agencies are confronted with a young woman with children or a senior aged homeless woman and a young, strong twenty something man with extreme mental illness, they will give the home to one of the woman every time. ( is one life more valuable than another ? )

This is one of the challenges people with mental illness face every day. They automatically go to the bottom of the queue for any services that are available and without family support, invariably end up homeless or in prison for taking ( illegal ) actions in order to survive.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

chameleon54 — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 04:26:16 GMT

" Schizophrenia and drug taking is a big no-no. It makes people worse. That man would have known that. What's the bet though that he was also a drug taker?

I could lose the bet but I am suspicious. "

" What's the bet though that he was also a drug taker? "

As mentioned before, one of the issues is that we as a society have not invested in medical research for the treatment of psychiatric illness, pouring our money into more fashionable illnesses such as breast cancer instead. ( of which my wife is very thankful ). There are no votes or Kudos in research into medications for psychiatric illness. We are still using very old, crude and often ineffective drugs with major side effects which often dont work or people simply refuse to take.

They use illegal sedatives such as Marijuana and Ketamine instead. These can at times be laced with other drugs such as amphetamines which along with social isolation leads to escalation in drug use and addiction to other hard core drugs.

The truth is that as a society we have failed people with psychiatric illnesses. We ostracise them, discriminate against them, fail to provide them with even basic medical support or provisions such as safe housing and then wonder why it all goes awfully wrong. And then when a predictable tragedy does occur, social media is filled with simplistic, angry, vile comments from people with no human compassion or understanding of the challenges faced by the individuals and families of those suffering mental illness.

This tragedy is a sad reflection on the failures of all of us as a society.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

domino-710 — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 04:30:12 GMT

So good to see in all your comments - your sincere empathy for those who lost their lives - and - those affected by that loss.

Re: Bondi Junction massacre

chameleon54 — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 04:53:48 GMT

Careful where you go Dom. -

I have a lot more skin in the game and compassion for all concerned than you will ever know.

If you want to go there ....... I have been in a similar position to the shoppers in the mall. I had to tackle and restrain a young woman who was armed with a large kitchen knife and was charging towards another person intent on killing them. Only difference was there wasnt any armed police around to help.

She was having a mental health episode and Ambulance officers where trying to section her. They evacuated the building when she pulled the knife and I was left to either stop her by myself or watch some-one else be stabbed.

Lets just say it left a few mental scars that are only now starting to heal.