topic Re: Ebay removed negative feedback in Buying

Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 05:15:09 GMT

I have lost trust in ebay today.

I bought a CD from a seller who claimed this Pink Floyd CD was a rare USA 1st release (which are very collectable) and asked a premium price. His description clearly stated it was "the rare 1983 1st USA release" with the "rare two-track mastering". It was neither.

When I recieved the CD I found it was the common later release (they look the same) with the common mastering. I responded to the seller with evidence that it was a later, common CD which do not have much value. The seller was abusive and would not allow a refund. Eventually ebay intervened and found in my favour and returned the amount paid. I then went to send it back to the seller and more abuse followed with him saying I had to pay for return postage. Eventually he paid for postage and I returned the CD.

I left the seller short negative feedback, which was later removed by ebay. I was outstanded that after all that, including that he misled his claim to obtain a premium price, ebay removed the negative feedback. So I asked ebay to investigate why the negative feedback was removed. Eventually they replied:

Hello xxx

I understand that the feedback you've left is your opinion, however eBay has guidelines in place to ensure feedback is honest, professional and appropriate.

If feedback is not in line with our policies, we may investigate and take action. We can remove these, according to our guidelines.

We know that you may not have been aware that this was against eBay's rules. Now is a great time to become familiar with our feedback policies. Our guidelines can be found here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-ov.html

I know this isn’t the response you were hoping for, but I trust I've been able to explain our position clearly.

Kind regards,

Genevieve P.

eBay Customer Service

The feedback was not an 'opinion' but factual - I even had evidence that the listing was false and misleading! But what really bugs me, is the condenscending ebay reply about "now it is a great time to become familiar with our feedback policies "and I trust I have been able to explain our position clearly", when clearly they haven't!

So does this mean we cannot trust feedback on ebay?

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

lyndal1838 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 05:25:00 GMT

It is a very long time since I have trusted ebay feedback.....and I doubt that I am the only one to feel that way.

It sounds as though you were very badly treated in this case.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

Anonymous — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 05:32:09 GMT

I would not trust feedback. If feedback could be trusted,

both buyer and seller would have the ability to leave honest feedback

Ebay would'nt be removing neg feedback from (ahem) 'it's special' sellers

Have you been able to speak with a supervisor at all

The response you have been given and the abuse you've had from the seller are not acceptable

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

digital*ghost — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 05:56:45 GMT

@frme63 wrote:

If feedback is not in line with our policies, we may investigate and take action. We can remove these, according to our guidelines.

I don't know if any of this is applicable, but feedback becomes removable if:

It contains profanity
It contains hate speech
It contians a reference to an eBay or PayPal dispute
Feedback extortion was involved
It contains references or links to 3rd party websites
It contains a falsehood that can be easily disproven
The buyer's complaint is over something that was made known in the description or terms of sale

There may be other reasons I can't think of right now. I have had feedback removed (from my selling account) because the buyer said I didn't refund. It took all of 3 seconds to prove to eBay that I did, and they removed the feedback. Sometimes a member may not mean to attempt feedback extortion, but eBay can still view it that way (anything that starts with something like "if you don't..." and ends with "...then I'll be leaving negative feedback", has the potential to be interpreted as feedback extortion.

Feedback can be removed for other reasons, too, especially (as mentioned above) the seller is favoured by eBay - typically your big box or very high volume sellers.

Even if none of the above was true, feedback was / is about as trustworthy as your average group of people supplying subjective opinions on things.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 05:59:07 GMT

Well, I don't know if it was a supervisor but I did ask for the complaint to be escalated further up the chain. I won't hold my breath but we'll see whether it happens and how it goes.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 06:01:43 GMT

That's the thing, I cannot see where I breached their guidelines. None of those aspects apply to the feedback - it was short and simple "CD was not as described and seller was difficult to deal with".

The only guidelines that were breached were by the seller with respect to false or misleading description and harassing the buyer.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

Anonymous — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 06:06:46 GMT

Did you call them or did you use the have us call you option when you phoned?

If you did the 'direct phone call' to the regular call center, I would def do the have us call you option and ask to speak to a supervisor (speak to them personally)

I myself and many other members have been told things by the regular call center staff that have never been followed up on (and to the point of them denying ever knowing anything about the issue when called back for an update)

Just in case. It sounds like such a generic,scripted reply from bot town

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

digital*ghost — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 06:09:32 GMT

Messages are taken into account as well - it's really easy to use feedback as leverage when dealing with a difficult seller. (I'm not saying you did, or this must be what's behind the removal, but eBay do have full access to messages between buyers and sellers, and they will read them if feedback is disputed, so if there's anything in your messages to the seller that could be misconstrued, it's possible it could explain how the seller was able to get the neg removed).

Occasionally, eBay will reinstate negs if they review the reason it was removed and determine that there was no justification for the removal.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 06:28:07 GMT

"Did you call them or did you use the have us call you option when you phoned?

If you did the 'direct phone call' to the regular call center, I would def do the have us call you option and ask to speak to a supervisor (speak to them personally)"

I called them as well as communicating to three separate customer staff through my messages. This issue of removal of the negative feedback has been going on for some time now and finally concluded with that bot type message, well from ebay's perspective anyway.

I also called Ebay today after receiving that message implying that I breached their policies. It is a hassle as the seller is in the USA so when I call I need to be put through to their USA office. The person I spoke with today wasn't much help saying that she cannot reinstate the feedback - which I know she can't, I asked for the complaint to be escalated to someone higher up in authority to review the complaint.

Interestingly, the US customer officer I was put through to was able to read me back some notes leading up to the last ebay message. It said that it was a misunderstanding and a matter of opinion. I'm so *** off as it was not an opinion nor a misunderstanding. If Ebay asked me, rather than seemingly taking the word of the seller, I could have provided them with the evidence which shows that the CD was not what the seller said it was - they could have seen it anyway from reading my messages to the seller. They just don't seem to care or interested in protecting the integrity of the feedback system.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 06:35:24 GMT

"Messages are taken into account as well - it's really easy to use feedback as leverage when dealing with a difficult seller. (I'm not saying you did, or this must be what's behind the removal, but eBay do have full access to messages between buyers and sellers, and they will read them if feedback is disputed, so if there's anything in your messages to the seller that could be misconstrued, it's possible it could explain how the seller was able to get the neg removed)."

I wish they did read the messages as it clearly shows how I presented the evidence to the seller and how rude he was in return. Indeed, I initially thought it was an honest mistake by the seller as all the early USA wish you were here CDs look the same with only small details telling the 1st release with the unique, sought after mastering, from the later reissues with the common mastering.

But the way the seller responded, not just the rudeness, but ignoring the evidence, including a link to the Steve Hoffman music forum thread which also explained why the CD was not the 1983 1st release and instead, trying to turn it around by suggesting I did not do my homework when I originally purchased it! As if to say, it doesn't matter if the seller gives a false description, it is the buyers fault for not critically examining all the pictures to look for esoteric nuances to identify it is not what the seller says it is.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 07:14:39 GMT

Haven't read the thread but if you mention a case or refund, that's against the rules and eBay will remove feedback if the seller asks on those grounds.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

digital*ghost — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 07:31:54 GMT

The reason I mentioned that things can be easily miscontrued as feedback extortion (and suggested there may have been something in the message exchange that the seller used to claim FB extortion), is that you mentioned the seller first refused to pay return postage and that they were difficult, which suggests something changed in order for them to agree to pay it.

Again, I'm not trying to harp on it in an attempt to insist this is what happened, but eBay's response to you asking them why the neg was removed was basically "because reasons", so if you can narrow down the actual reason, even by a process of elimination (it's easy to rule out profanity if you didn't swear in FB, hard to rule out FB extortion when what can count as it will vary from eBay rep to eBay rep), then you will have a greater chance of being successful in disputing that reasoning.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 08:20:46 GMT

"The reason I mentioned that things can be easily miscontrued as feedback extortion (and suggested there may have been something in the message exchange that the seller used to claim FB extortion), is that you mentioned the seller first refused to pay return postage and that they were difficult, which suggests something changed in order for them to agree to pay it."

Nope nothing in the message that could be construed as extortion. The seller tried to make me pay for return postage and I replied that Ebay found in my favour and their policy requires the sender to arrange or pay for the return. He accused me of being unreasonable for not agreeing to pay for the postage but it ended there. After a long absence he then replied to my message saying please send the CD back and agreed to pay for the postage - so I sent him a request through pay pal, he paid and I sent the CD back.

Btw, I just received another reply from Ebay saying that they have this transaction on record and they will take action if the seller does it again. They did not answer my specific question on which Ebay policy do they think I breached nor agreed to escalation. I replied not good enough, please escalate to someone higher in the hierarchy and please provide the answer to the question on what policy ebay believes I breached.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

digital*ghost — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 09:42:52 GMT

You will likely get a more appropriate and (hopefully) informative reply if you contact eBay by phone (I recommend using the call me back option - you should receive the call straight away, but you'll still be on hold with an automated service for a bit).

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 10:38:37 GMT

"You will likely get a more appropriate and (hopefully) informative reply if you contact eBay by phone (I recommend using the call me back option - you should receive the call straight away, but you'll still be on hold with an automated service for a bit). "

Tried that. The seller is in the USA so when I call Ebay over here, they say they cannot deal with the matter and instead, they transfer me to the USA Ebay. I mentioned previously how that went... could do nothing about it because they claim once a negative feedback has been removed it cannot be restored - hmm now where is their policy on that one.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 21:24:57 GMT

Untrue as several members here have had negs reinstated.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 13:18:21 GMT

No doubt that what Ebay told me is untrue, but there doesn't seem much I can do about it.

I have asked in my most recent reply corro to Ebay to treat this as a complaint and to escalate it to higher levels of management for review. Haven't heard back as yet.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

4channel — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 02:59:40 GMT

@frme63 wrote:
I have lost trust in ebay today.

I bought a CD from a seller who claimed this Pink Floyd CD was a rare USA 1st release (which are very collectable) and asked a premium price. His description clearly stated it was "the rare 1983 1st USA release" with the "rare two-track mastering". It was neither.

When I recieved the CD I found it was the common later release (they look the same) with the common mastering. I responded to the seller with evidence that it was a later, common CD which do not have much value. The seller was abusive and would not allow a refund. Eventually ebay intervened and found in my favour and returned the amount paid. I then went to send it back to the seller and more abuse followed with him saying I had to pay for return postage. Eventually he paid for postage and I returned the CD.

I left the seller short negative feedback, which was later removed by ebay. I was outstanded that after all that, including that he misled his claim to obtain a premium price, ebay removed the negative feedback. So I asked ebay to investigate why the negative feedback was removed. Eventually they replied:

..............................................................

So does this mean we cannot trust feedback on ebay?

Hi, from what you have posted it was an incorrect move for eBay to remove your negative. This is what the process is for, to keep sellers in line. The seller's attitude and their refusal to take responsibility for their stuff up (assuming it was not a fraudulent sale) warrants a negative.

Sorry to hear of this bad experience.

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

chameleon54 — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 20:06:19 GMT

@frme63 wrote:
"The reason I mentioned that things can be easily miscontrued as feedback extortion (and suggested there may have been something in the message exchange that the seller used to claim FB extortion), is that you mentioned the seller first refused to pay return postage and that they were difficult, which suggests something changed in order for them to agree to pay it."

Nope nothing in the message that could be construed as extortion. The seller tried to make me pay for return postage and I replied that Ebay found in my favour and their policy requires the sender to arrange or pay for the return. He accused me of being unreasonable for not agreeing to pay for the postage but it ended there. After a long absence he then replied to my message saying please send the CD back and agreed to pay for the postage - so I sent him a request through pay pal, he paid and I sent the CD back.

Btw, I just received another reply from Ebay saying that they have this transaction on record and they will take action if the seller does it again. They did not answer my specific question on which Ebay policy do they think I breached nor agreed to escalation. I replied not good enough, please escalate to someone higher in the hierarchy and please provide the answer to the question on what policy ebay believes I breached.

Is it possible that there are specific little nuances regards American release dates and recording information that you and the seller disagree on ? Without seeing the original listing description in full and researching all of the relevent information ( which I havnt got the time to do ) forum users will never know, but I am aware and careful of similar issues when collecting rare books.

In the case of books, they can be described as " First edition " when the information may have already been published in Government gazzettes. The " first edition " references publication as a printed book available to the public, when the true first publication was actually in the Government Gazzette. " First edition " can also relate to the first publication by a specific publishing company, when another publishing company may have already released the book several months before.

This example is regularly encountered with early Australian explorers who where commissioned by state or federal governments to explore new country. Thier records where published in government gazzettes and then diaries where often released by more than one printing house in the same year. Each being a " first edition " for the respective publisher. Hence the term " first true publication " used by book collectors.

If the seller can prove that his listing was correct on similar little nuances, even though you thought you where getting something else, he might just wrangle feedback removal if he found a sympathetic CS rep.

Or maybe you are right all the way along and just got shafted by an ebay CS rep !!!!

That happens sometimes

When it does it can be better just to move on with your life rather than holding onto the hurt.....

Re: Ebay removed negative feedback

frme63 — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 11:09:15 GMT

I wrote a comprehensive reply on why this was clearly false and misleading. I don't really want to type it all out again.

The situation here is different. The seller claimed it was a 1983 1st release USA CD of this album. This is very important because it was only the 1983 1st USA CD that had the same unique and rare mastering as the early Japan CDs. The 2nd to 14th reissues of the same CD look pretty much the same but have the common USA mastering rather than the unique Japan mastering. T

The 1983 Ist releases are therefore a valuable collectors item at around $100, which is what I paid the seller. When I received it I ripped the tracks to a program which measures the peak level of each track. None of the peak levels matched what it was supposed to be, rather the peak levels were the same as the later more common USA masterings.

I then looked further, comparing the CD information against a Pink Floyd discography site. Some of the printing on the cover and the matix number on the CD spindle, clearly identified that CD as a 1985/86 4th reissue - a pretty much worthless CD of no collector value. I then posted this on the Steve Hoffman Music forum asking the same question and members there also confirmed the CD is not a 1983 1st issue with the rare mastering.

Because all the later reissues look the same, I initially thought the seller just did not know. So I sent him a message providing all the substantial evidence that the CD is not what he claimed in his listing. The seller responded abusively and claimed it is my fault for not closely looking at the pics with the listing (as if that is more important than his claim in the description). He refused a return, until Ebay intervened and then wanted me to pay return postage. The negative review I left him was fair but Ebay removed it at his request and now refuse to reinstate it.

I have totally lost confidence in Ebay and I certainly will not trust their feedback anymore.