topic Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem in Buying

Fake free postage is NOT a problem

sea.breeze — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 00:13:55 GMT

Let me be clear, it's not a problem for you.

I bought a TDS meter a couple of weeks ago, $6.95 with free postage. I did see that feedback seemsed to indicate unhappy customers who paid excess postage. But that's not really a problem, it was sold with free postage and eBay today is not the eBay of 15 years ago.

I duly found a card in my letter box to collect the parcel, which in itself is unusual as normally it would be left in the box. Upon presenting at the post office I was told there's another $7.80 to pay. I did not take possessin of the parcel. And while it's not necessary I would suggest not taking possession because it's not your problem.

OK so I then wrote to the seller, who pretended not to understand me, I did not muck around I just put in a return explaining that the item was not as described namely it was described with free postage.

The replied to the Return ... not through the return messages but through the normal message system.

Hi, We are sorry for the inconvenience brought to you. Could you please close the request for us? And can we communicate through the ebay message directly? Which can help us solve your problem quickly. Are you going to pick up your parcel or not ? If yes , we will refund extra postage $7.8 to you . if you don't want to pick up the parcel , we will full refund your payment $6.95 to you . Pls let us know , thanks .

Once a return has been opened DO NOT reply to any more messages except on the actual Return messages.

I wrote back to them telling them not to send me any more messages except through the official return message system and that I have a better idea, how about they refund me the full $6.95 cost of the item and I will collect it from the post office.

They agreed to that and asked me to close the dispute, I said when I get refunded the dispute will be closed.

IF EVERYONE DID THIS, ALL THIS **bleep** WOULD END PRETTY SPEEDILY.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

sea.breeze — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 00:54:41 GMT

Just to be extra clear here.

That a seller has complaints in their feedback for excess postage, you need not worry about that, it could be to do with anything. It's not a reason not to buy from them becasue eBay WILL enforce the contract.

The reason they WILL enforce the contract is that there are no grey areas at all.

If the item is described with free postage then that's the contract. It is very much a part of the description of the good. So the correct dispute is for Item Not As Described.

Once the dispute is in progress you need do nothing more other than say that the item is described with free postage and that's what you paid for. End of.

You will not only be helping yourself if you do this but you will be helping everyone else because this practice will end pretty nearly if sellers begin to see that they cannot win this.

The very fact that you see this complaint in their feedback, is not a reason not to buy from them, it's a reason not to argue with them because they clearly are serial offenders, Just put in the dispute for 'not as described' and do not take possession of the item, although that shouldn't really be a problem.

Once the dispute is in because it's an item not as described, the seller's only options are to pay for return postage which ebay will force them to do in this instance, or pay for the excess postage.

This needs to be stickied. At least sticky it in your mind.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

gutterpunkz05 — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 01:11:22 GMT

I think you may have out smarted yourself.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

sea.breeze — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 01:13:29 GMT

Please explain.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

kopenhagen5 — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 01:39:13 GMT

I think you will find the eBay's terms state the INAD is pertaining to the item/s not the transaction.

Your argument would never stand up legally.

But it's a good solution for eBayers dealing with shonky sellers.

Good on you for sticking to getting a refund before closing the case.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

gutterpunkz05 — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 03:23:05 GMT

@sea.breeze wrote:
Please explain.

Your tactic might work if the seller is not very experienced or it was a genuine mistake.

In all likelyhood, the item you have refused to collect, will not have a return address and you will be unable to provide proof the item was returned.

Using INAD, relating to postage, could be a risky proposition, even if ebay do apply it to postage, in all likelyhood the listing stated free standard post, the seller has probably shipped the item at letter rates, and AP have deemed it to be a parcel.

Hopefully you get your money back, but I just dont see it being a blanket solution.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

imastawka — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 03:59:53 GMT

Seller is posting as a letter when it should be parcel rate, and they're being caught.

Seems as though they're smart enough not to have a return address on them though.

Otherwise they would be the ones getting the bill for extra postage, as well as a fine

from Auspost

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

gutterpunkz05 — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 05:18:38 GMT

@imastawka wrote:
Seller is posting as a letter when it should be parcel rate, and they're being caught.

Seems as though they're smart enough not to have a return address on them though.

Otherwise they would be the ones getting the bill for extra postage, as well as a fine
from Auspost

Dang, it was so obvious that I overlooked that point

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

sea.breeze — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 03:28:35 GMT

Let me even more clear, remember there is a thread about this so it appears that people are not clear.

Ebay is very different to how they were 15 years ago even though all the people helping sound like one and the same person! Anyhoo, I have found that it not necessary for ones case to stand up in a criminal or civil court, although it certainly would.

No, eBay have powers far above anything a court could impose, they can for example as they just did, force a client to refund me the full price of a fake item advertised using a trademarked word and if you argue the point in a clear way they will make a unilateral decision, especially if you keep your sense of humour and are polite. Granted you need to be able to hold a thought and follow some reasoning, but if you do it the correct way without ranting then they are incridibly helpful and on your side, but you have to be straight up.

They way you go about it is this, when you see that excess postage is a problem on their feedback, then that works in your favour, you simply explain to the ebay person or on the form, that you bought an item with free postage. Always best to talk to a person first because then the record of the call will be lodged and will make the return process virtually painless.

I'm just saying that if everyone did this the problem would vanish pretty quickly.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

hbrih3 — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 03:57:41 GMT

In that case ignoring the AP notice and not picking up the item is the way to go. AP should automatically suspend shipping of items with incorrect postage and if a sender's address is not provided then the item should be send into storage area to be held for a period, say 3 months, then have it sold at action if sender is not claiming it.

The main issue with asking the buyer to pay on pick up is that without a tracking number you'll receive a notice from AP to pick up an item but haven't got a clue of what is supposed to be. Then once you pay your $7.80 and open the parcel it may only be an item worth $5 so no longer such a good deal. Now you have to wate time and jump through loops to recover the postage paid.

Meanwhile eBay is allowing the practice to go on unabated because for every transaction good or bad they collect their fee.

In my case the item ended up at AP in the next town so I informed them I wouldn't be picking it up and also provided the details of the sender. Most likely they won't bother to try and recover the costs from sender since its much easier to just increase postage fees on everything.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

hbrih3 — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 04:11:08 GMT

Once a return has been opened DO NOT reply to any more messages except on the actual Return messages.

I wrote back to them telling them not to send me any more messages except through the official return message system and that I have a better idea, how about they refund me the full $6.95 cost of the item and I will collect it from the post office.

They agreed to that and asked me to close the dispute, I said when I get refunded the dispute will be closed.

IF EVERYONE DID THIS, ALL THIS **bleep** WOULD END PRETTY SPEEDILY.

I guess a better solution would be for everyone to stop buying items under $20 locally that are advertised with free delivery and only order from overseas sellers. The issue with fake free postage only applies to small cost items as the seller would not risk underpaying postage and not having a return address on the item.

The other problem that seems to have increased since the introduction of GST on overseas purchases is the increase of drop shipping and fake Australian item locations. While eBay may allow this practice to continue and doesn't see anything wrong with it ATO may have a different view and may take some action if you provide them the seller's details.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

davewil1964 — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 08:12:45 GMT

Half of my items are 'free' post and all of those are under $20.

I think I've had 6 INRs in 11 years, plus 2 (because I always put a return address on) that were allegedly underpaid. I convinced AP in both those instances that they were wrong.

Your blanket solution, like most blanket solutions, assumes a one size fits all model, which certainly isn't the case in the real world.

Every seller is different and proposing such boycotts because you had ONE bad experience is hardly a considered response.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

hbrih3 — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 10:51:18 GMT

You had 6INRs +2 alleged underpaid in 11 years on 140 feedbacks ?

If you pay the correct postage then the matter is black and white, there is no need to convince AP. In fact if the discrepancy is minimal they ussually let it slide as their cost and hassle of returning the item to you is not worth it.

With sellers that are not putting a return address on the item its basically an admission they knew they underpaid the postage. Not using a tracking number which require a return address is another clue of possible underpaid postage.

And just for the record, is not just me having ONE bad experience. The same seller has numerous negative and neutral feedbacks regarding underpaid postage. And that is not counting the feedback removed after he blackmailed buyers into removing it in exchange for a refund. Looking at a few other sellers with similar sized items and prices I noticed they also have a few feedbacks referring to underpaid postage so its not just one or two sellers.

One thing I can be sure of when buying small cost items is that someone selling and posting from China will have the correct postage. If they happen to use economy Speedpak then the delivery time is not much different compared with items bought from the other side of Australia, and that's with sellers who actually have the item in stock and not drop shippinging it from China to avoid paying the GST.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

davewil1964 — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 12:05:49 GMT

@hbrih3 wrote:
You had 6INRs +2 alleged underpaid in 11 years on 140 feedbacks ?
If you pay the correct postage then the matter is black and white, there is no need to convince AP. In fact if the discrepancy is minimal they ussually let it slide as their cost and hassle of returning the item to you is not worth it.

With sellers that are not putting a return address on the item its basically an admission they knew they underpaid the postage. Not using a tracking number which require a return address is another clue of possible underpaid postage.

And just for the record, is not just me having ONE bad experience. The same seller has numerous negative and neutral feedbacks regarding underpaid postage. And that is not counting the feedback removed after he blackmailed buyers into removing it in exchange for a refund. Looking at a few other sellers with similar sized items and prices I noticed they also have a few feedbacks referring to underpaid postage so its not just one or two sellers.

One thing I can be sure of when buying small cost items is that someone selling and posting from China will have the correct postage. If they happen to use economy Speedpak then the delivery time is not much different compared with items bought from the other side of Australia, and that's with sellers who actually have the item in stock and not drop shippinging it from China to avoid paying the GST.

My point is that 'free' postage for items under $20 does not equal scammer.

I have sold around 4000 items in the last 11 years. So about 2000 sent as letters, all under $20. But none of my items come from China.

So it's not one bad experience, it's one bad seller. My point remains valid, whereas yours doesn't. And if you'd checked the seller's feedback prior to purchase, you wouldn't have had the bad experience and wouldn't be proposing simplistic solutions to nonsimplistic issues.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

digital*ghost — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 00:15:08 GMT

@sea.breeze wrote:

Once the dispute is in because it's an item not as described, the seller's only options are to pay for return postage which ebay will force them to do in this instance, or pay for the excess postage.

eBay don't currently force sellers to pay for return postage (it's not possible in all circumstances), if you open a return request for INAD, a refund will generally only be forthcoming if the item is actually returned by trackable means. I wanted to make this clear because your advice could see buyers opening INADs, not being able to get return postage costs or labels, and then not getting the item and / or a refund of the excess postage costs charged.

ebay specifically account for underpaid postage in their MBG, but only if the package was refused (which means it has been RTS), which in turn requires an INR dispute - what buyers actually need to do is get verification from Aus Post that the package had insufficient postage in order to support the claim.

Just a general note - Aus Post will often charge the recipient even if there is a return address, because the rate of paying the money is higher from recipients than it is from the senders.

Re: Fake free postage is NOT a problem

hbrih3 — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 03:03:20 GMT

Never said they always equal a scammer but the practice of scamming buyers seems to be on the increase with domestic sellers selling new low cost Chinese made items that try to compete with sellers from China. Your sales seem to be focused on second hand books so your point is hardly relevant here since you have no competition from China.

Also since eBay does not seem to do anything about the fake free postage issue the simplest solution is called that for good reason and is usually the best.

And the point I made about sellers from China having correct postage remains valid.