topic Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer? in Buying

Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cupcake15 — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 12:30:54 GMT

I bought this bag from a 0 feedback seller, it was listed buy it now for 79.95, with free postage specified, so I offered $40 best offer, which is the max amount I want to spend on this bag. Then I received invoice of $53.5, the seller added $13.5 postage cost himself.

I contacted the seller, his reply was

Hi,

The postage is only free if you pay the full price of $79.95.

eBay's rules state that if you purchase by making an offer below that, then postage is payable.

I have to say that at $40 plus postage for this extremely well made bag you are getting a bargain.

I would not find that anywhere, and eBay clearly states that

If the seller has specified postage costs for the item, it is not negotiable. If however, the seller has requested that the buyer contact the seller for postage costs, the buyer can offer the seller a price for the item plus postage costs in a single offer. The buyer would then simply add, Including postage to the message box.

From my understand, free postage is specified postage cost.

I spoke to ebay chat, and as usually, they does not know anything about ebay rules and just make up BS on the spot from his butt until I repeated asked him/her to show me the his BS on eBay rule. Transcript attached, read it to see how incompetent these eBay employees are.

Anyways, I think the community would probably know about eBay rule than eBay employees themselves.

So, first why do eBay allow seller to change the postage cost if it it already specified after accepting the best offer?

And second where should I go from here? The guy from the ebay chat asked me to file a case, where do I go to file the case?

linked to the transcript

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6DfW2X25tuNYTc0bTRmaWdvNEU/view?usp=sharing

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:13:53 GMT

There is no way to file a dispute if the item is not paid for.

There are only 2 reasons to open a dispute....Item not Received or Item Not As Described and neither of these apply when you have not paid.

Having said that, the seller should not be adding postage if it is included in the original price BUT the seller should not have accepted your offer if it was not enough to cover what he wanted for the item plus postage.

I think the half price offer was a biit rough but if that was all you were prepared to pay then so be it....the seller should have rejected the offer.

Just ask for a mutual cancellation. If the seller will not cancel he may open a non-paying bidder case against you to get his fees back.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cupcake15 — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:42:59 GMT

What?

So seller can add postage arbitrarily, and if he doesn't send cancellation and I don't pay and he sends non-paying notice and I get a strike?

As per my original question, why does eBay allow sellers to change postage cost when it's obviously against their rule?

What a !@#$ed system.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

i-love-my-sheep — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:44:14 GMT

If a seller has specified free postage, then I can't add a postage or handling cost after the sale.

Free postage

You can offer free postage Australia-wide, and to select or all countries around the world.
For a destination to which you've specified free postage, no other fees related to postage, handling or packaging can be charged.
You're not allowed to change the postage method to a method that is slower than the slowest one indicated in the listing.
You're not allowed to offer free postage to one destination and then exclude posting to certain places within that destination. For example, choosing free postage within Australia in the listing form, then charging extra or excluding buyers from specific suburbs/regions such as Tasmania and Perth. You can select different postage rates for different areas by using domestic postage rate tables. Exemptions to this policy may apply if you are excluding regions to comply with the law.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/selling-practices.html see under the postage and handling charges link.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:57:10 GMT

@kuromusha1 wrote:
What?

So seller can add postage arbitrarily, and if he doesn't send cancellation and I don't pay and he sends non-paying notice and I get a strike?

As per my original question, why does eBay allow sellers to change postage cost when it's obviously against their rule?

What a !@#$ed system.

Read my post....I did not say that the seller can add the postage when free postage was in the listing.

BUT if he considered your offer too low to cover the item plus postage he should not have accepted it.

If you are not prepared to pay the postage just ask for a cancellation. There is nothing else you can do.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

curraone — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:44:59 GMT

So we all know (except the OP and the seller) what should have happened.

1. The seller lists an item at $80 with best offer - free postage. The seller has best offer parameters set at say $60 minimum, so that he will not be bothered by unreasonable offers.

2. The buyer makes an offer $40.

3. The seller should have made a counter-offer saying I will accept $40 if you pay the postage $13.50; which would have been very reasonable in my opinion - I think to make a 50% offer is a bit rude actually.

4. Then the buyer could have accepted the counter-offer or declined.

This did not happen, probably because the seller is very new and did not know he could do that.

5. The buyer gets an invoice for $53.50 which he does not want to pay. So he immediately cancels the transaction - which I understand under the new rules you can do if it is within the hour.

This did not happen either.

Now, in reality, the buyer does not want to pay $53.50. The seller does not want to sell a $80 item for $40 which includes $13.50 postage. So the buyer can ask the seller to send a cancellation request, the seller gets their final fees back and re-lists the item. The buyer looks elsewhere for a cheaper bag.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

modestbods — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:34:49 GMT

Lao A. (eBay Customer Service):

"I am afraid the best offer is only for the item not for the postage charge, you need to pay for postage charged differently".

And eBay wonders why it is their customers have trouble believing that 'free postage' is actually 'free' ?? When their own employees are struggling with the concept of 'free postage' what hope do their customers have of coming to terms with it ?

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cupcake15 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 00:39:45 GMT

I know you did not say that, but this is the fact at the moment isn't it? The seller can modify the postage after accepting a best offer when the postage is already specified in the listing. Yes or No?

This allows the seller to change the final sell price, right? Yes.

The seller could have accepted $40 buy it now, than added $39 to the postage, sell it to me for $79, this allows the seller to manipulate the system, which is the main question in the title of the thread, eBay shouldn't allow the seller to modify the postage cost if it is specified.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cupcake15 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 00:49:17 GMT

Anyways, the seller as fixed the final by removing the $13.5 postage. So everything is good.

However, the system is broken, which makes me more reluctant in the future to make best offers knowing that seller can change the postage cost.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

lyndal1838 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:06:12 GMT

But the seller cannot "just change the postage cost"....the seller made a mistake and has now fixed it for you. I don't see your problem.

You have an extremely good buy if the half price offer includes $13.50 postage. Just pay for the item and thank the seller for practically giving you the item. Half price is a ridiculous offer IMO.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cupcake15 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:49:03 GMT

Stop digressing from the main issue by talking about the price of the offer? Serious WTH man, that's not even the point of the discussion? If you want to talk about the price, a bag of similar quality can be bought for $20 or less from HK sellers, and we can go on and on...

The seller cannot "just change the postage cost", but he did, and why was he able to do so? That is the whole point of the thread. If you don't have answer to this question, then do bother. And stop talking about the offer price, his selling price was way jack up anyway, for a no name brand bag that's probably $5 imported from China.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

lyndal1838 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 02:15:49 GMT

If sellers could not change the postage on invoices how do you think they could give combined postage discounts?

There is always the possibility of human error in postage quotes...you would be pretty cranky if there was no way a seller could alter the postage on the invoice.

And if the bag was so overpriced why did you even bother making an offer?

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

modestbods — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 02:24:01 GMT

Lyndal has been agreeing with you that the seller is in the wrong. She is merely trying to help you out by suggesting that you take a pragmatic approach to it.

Yes technically the seller is in the wrong, yes technically they 'can't' do what they did as per the rules. But things are done every second of the day all over the world that technically 'can't' be done legally, but that doesn't stop them being done, especially when there is no one prepared to police those matters.

In this case eBay may or may not take some punitive action against the seller, which in effect would at most probably just be a slap on the wrist and a 'defect' recorded against their account for a policy violation. Tbh there's not a whole lot more eBay can do as they are technically not a party to the contract of sale between you and the seller. The only person that can 'do' anything to force the seller to honour the $40 accepted offer is you. How? By your taking them to small claims court over the matter. But let's face it, to do so would be laughable at best, it would cost you more than what you are claiming for & there's not even any guarantee you would win.

So you can complain here all you want, & that's fine as most of us empathise with you including Lyndal, but it's not actually going to help you get the item for $40 with free postage, nothing will if the sellers refuses to do it. So you have to decide, whether you are willing to pay $53.50 for it or not, if not, the best advice we can offer you is to request the seller cancel the sale and move on with your life.

Good luck.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

fixnwear — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 03:03:40 GMT

kuromusha,

if your topic is added postage (we were all told by you to stay on topic, loud and clear) - you were so out of line to even offer 50% of the asking price. And then expect free postage on top of that.

It doesn't matter what the Ebay's rules are on that - even if they happen to be very convenient for you in this case.

Morally, it would have surely occured to you that in order for seller to make some money postage was reasonable thing to add.

And, may I ask, what on earth prompted you to spend $40 on something that you could have got for $20 - as you pointed out.

Very much out of character, for someone who wants to buy something as cheap as possible.

I'm also a buyer - and would never indulge in such behaviour - called: taking unfair advange!

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cupcake15 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 04:34:55 GMT

@fixnwear wrote:
kuromusha,
if your topic is added postage (we were all told by you to stay on topic, loud and clear) - you were so out of line to even offer 50% of the asking price. And then expect free postage on top of that.
It doesn't matter what the Ebay's rules are on that - even if they happen to be very convenient for you in this case.
Morally, it would have surely occured to you that in order for seller to make some money postage was reasonable thing to add.
And, may I ask, what on earth prompted you to spend $40 on something that you could have got for $20 - as you pointed out.
Very much out of character, for someone who wants to buy something as cheap as possible.
I'm also a buyer - and would never indulge in such behaviour - called: taking unfair advange!

How dear you accuse me of taking unfair advantage? How in the world did I do something that was unfair? I offered a price I was willing to pay and the extra postage was totally unexpected, and I have followed eBay rule accordingly and have done everything according to the book.

Your accusation of my behaviour which you call taking unfair advantage is totally unfounded, trying to make me look like I was trying to scam someone.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

lyndal1838 — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 05:40:30 GMT

Fixwear has only said what most of us are thinking.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

fixnwear — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 06:14:32 GMT

How dear you accuse me of taking unfair advantage?

kuromusha, I must admit I thought long and hard about that one - and somehow found the nerve to say it.

My point is this:

sellers on Ebay (good ones, which are 9999999999999999%) need and deserve all the support from all of us that they can get.

Ebay doesn't seem to support them in any significant way.

Just imagine if all of us did what you did, and keep doing it at every turn, driving them into the ground with unrealistic offers and exectations, and what's worse, they keep giving in for the fear of god only knows what - they would soom all conlude that Ebay's customers are not worth having and go elsewhere to sell.

And then we would be left with nothing, no great and wonderful - and CONVENIENT items to buy, most of the times cheaper than the stores, and more often than not not even available to buy in the stores.

Me - I would pay them twice as much just not to have to front the traffic and parking!

And as for Ebay's rules, don't really know any of them, I just go by common sense, by give & take, by what feels right & fair in each case.

I most definitely don't see sellers like sitting ducks to be taken advange of - just because we can !

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

2106greencat — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 06:28:31 GMT

It must be the hot weather.........they are just coming out of the woodwork these day's aren't they.

One good thing though, a lot of sellers have added 'another problem buyer' to the little black list I am sure.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

cq_tech — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:18:08 GMT

Absolutely right greeencat. I too am fed up with greedy buyers who want everything for nothing then complain because they don't get it.

Re: Why does eBay account seller to modify postage after accepting best offer?

modestbods — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:56:17 GMT

@kuromusha1 wrote:
I bought this bag from a 0 feedback seller, it was listed buy it now for 79.95, with free postage specified, so I offered $40 best offer, which is the max amount I want to spend on this bag. Then I received invoice of $53.5, the seller added $13.5 postage cost himself.

I contacted the seller, his reply was

Hi,

The postage is only free if you pay the full price of $79.95.

eBay's rules state that if you purchase by making an offer below that, then postage is payable.

I have to say that at $40 plus postage for this extremely well made bag you are getting a bargain.

It appears to me from the opening post that the seller did not accept the offer via message, they have accepted it via clicking the accept button, but it looks like they have then immediately sent an invoice with $13.50 added for postage. So in a way it could be said the invoice represented a counter offer but I don't think that was the sellers intention as such though. I can imagine they saw the very lowball offer and decided they could accept it but only if the postage was added as an extra and probably assumed the buyer would understand why they did this. Technically the seller was in the wrong for doing this as they should have sent a counter offer to the buyer of $53.50 total.

Whilst the seller didn't go about it correctly, I agree that the OP is being unreasonable about it. The OP is failing to take into consideration just how unreasonable their offer was from the sellers perspective, or how generous the seller has been in trying to accomodate them in response to such a lowball offer.

@ $79.95 BIN with free postage (costing the seller $13.50) after postage + eBay fees +Paypal fees are deducted, the seller would be left with approximately $57.

@ $40 total, after postage + eBay fees +Paypal fees are deducted, the seller would be left with approximately $21.75 (= 62% less than via their BIN)

@ $40 + $13.50, after eBay fees + Paypal fees are deducted, the seller would be left with approximately $35.25 (= 38% less than via their BIN)

I think the seller has been very generous by being prepared to take almost 40% less in their own pocket, whilst the buyer has been far from generous by asking & then demanding that the seller loses over 60% from his end.

OP, have you ever heard of the saying 'never look a gift-horse in the mouth' ?