topic Re: Partial GST refund in Buying

Partial GST refund

asembler — Thu, 29 Oct 2020 08:01:13 GMT

My situation:

Placed an order for 2 items that were located in France. I'm located in Australia.

Paid in full including GST for 2 items.

Then the seller contacts me and tells me that one of the items is not avaiable and offers a partial refund.

I have agreed to it, however when he sent me money via PayPal he only refunded the cost of the item, not the 50% GST that I was supposed to get back. Also he sent me money, rather than do a refund via eBay so I also got charged for the PayPal transaction.

Contacted eBay and they say there is nothing they can do about it. They told to work it out with seller, ATO and my bank!!

What a mess.

Question: Anyone encountered a similar situation?

Re: Partial GST refund

lyndal1838 — Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:49:24 GMT

It is not an unusual scenario when the seller does not refund through the original paypal transaction.

As much as I hate to say it, depending on the amount of money involved, you may have to cut your losses.

Re: Partial GST refund

ozheatwave — Fri, 30 Oct 2020 01:03:56 GMT

there are a few wrongs here

1) GST is taken by ebay automatically, it has nothing to do with the "oversea" seller
2) the seller doesn't even know you have to pay for the tax, but the seller is partially wrong because he doesnt have the item, the other fault is the difficulty in refund single item in a combine purchase

if seller haven't sent out the item, i suggest you explain to him with screenshots, reject the payment, refund the whole purchase and buy it again

Re: Partial GST refund

amysiewling — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 04:38:20 GMT

Yes Im in a very similar situation, overseas purchase too

EBay admit they have collected GST but say they forward it to the ATO, so they can't refund it and asked me to get the GST refund from the ATO

So I contacted the ATO who said they eBay need to refund the GST and eBay's directions were odd

I took eBay what the ATO said and they escalated my matter to management but they never got back to me

So i contacted the ACCC, who said it is the seseller's responsibility to refund the GST, I tried to explain that the seller didnt collect the tax and probably wasnt even aware of the tax and ACCC responded saying seller's would be aware of the tax if they are selling goods in Australia and in this situation the seller would need to claim the GST back through their own country's tax department.

In my opinion, there is a loop hole. I think the ATO has put this recent rule in place knowing how many overseas eBay, Amazon, Aliexpress purchases get refunded, lost or never sent and they are pocketing the GST knowing that the seller's have no way of claiming the tax back as they would not be registered forGST in Australia.

ACCC seem too think this is all ok, so consumers can only loose out.

Re: Partial GST refund

lyndal1838 — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 04:55:48 GMT

If the refund is activated through the refund button on the transaction then the GST should be automatically refunded with the rest of the amount through paypal.

Not sure how it works now with the ebay managed payments system.

The buyer NEVER has to apply to the ATO for a GST refund.

The ACCC does not deal with the GST on overseas imports which is what you are talking about. They only have jurisdiction over businesses registered in Australia.

Re: Partial GST refund

digital*ghost — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 05:36:19 GMT

@amysiewling wrote:
Yes Im in a very similar situation, overseas purchase too
EBay admit they have collected GST but say they forward it to the ATO, so they can't refund it and asked me to get the GST refund from the ATO
So I contacted the ATO who said they eBay need to refund the GST and eBay's directions were odd
I took eBay what the ATO said and they escalated my matter to management but they never got back to me
So i contacted the ACCC, who said it is the seseller's responsibility to refund the GST, I tried to explain that the seller didnt collect the tax and probably wasnt even aware of the tax and ACCC responded saying seller's would be aware of the tax if they are selling goods in Australia and in this situation the seller would need to claim the GST back through their own country's tax department.
In my opinion, there is a loop hole. I think the ATO has put this recent rule in place knowing how many overseas eBay, Amazon, Aliexpress purchases get refunded, lost or never sent and they are pocketing the GST knowing that the seller's have no way of claiming the tax back as they would not be registered forGST in Australia.
ACCC seem too think this is all ok, so consumers can only loose out.

The GST rules on imports treat sites like eBay as the seller, so when the ATO states it's the seller's responsibility to refund the GST, they are (in effect) saying it is eBay's responsibility. This is how I would present the information to ebay if the circumstances allowed - they are the seller, the legislation states the refund is their responsibility and they are obliged to comply. the problem here, though, is they have no official evidence that a refund of GST is due, they have a transaction where payment was made in full, none of which was refunded when the seller sends money directly.

It is possible to apply to the ATO for a GST refund on goods brought into Australia, but I'm not sure if the process applies to online purchases where the buyer is in Australia (the only information I have ever found regarding this, it was specifically in relation to Aussies and travel).

eBay is really weird with regards to how they treat transactions - each item in an order is a separate transaction in all aspects, with the very notable exception of cancellations. Currently, in the majority of cases, it's not possible for a seller (or buyer) to cancel only one item in an order, the entire order needs to be cancelled and refunded.

It is possible to do a partial refund through ebay if the seller is on managed payments - the managed payments system is pretty new, though, and has been rolled out to limited sellers in limited countries, so for now, if it is an international transaction where GST has been applied, the best way to deal with it is officially cancel and refund the entire order through eBay, and then re-purchase the items you still want and can be sent etc.

Re: Partial GST refund

ep000001 — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 04:32:30 GMT

Did you receive the refund through a website function/policy provided by eBay, or did you go outside of eBay to receive the partial refund?

Some people think it is ok to just give the seller your Paypal email and have them send you money to your Paypal account.

Technically that is going outside of eBay to transact.

And now you know why.

It's not really your fault though, even eBay promotes the action.

It may sound weird however, I recently tried to reimburse a seller for an item after I was refunded and the item eventually arrived.

It was of my own action that i wanted to refund the seller.

All the seller could advise is that I give them my Paypal email address. I refused as it would be transacting outside eBay.

i contacted ebay customer Support and they also "advised" the dubious Paypal method.

Again i refused and explained that i needed a ethical eBay solution that did not involve transacting outside of eBay.

Eventually ebay customer support ethically advised me to get the seller to generate an invoice for the item, mark it paid and send it to me for payment.

Don't believe everything you read on eBay,

Just do what you think is ethical.

Re: Partial GST refund

imastawka — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 04:37:12 GMT

Transaction policies outside of ebay are for buying and/ or selling, not refunds.

Please read the policies concerning this and stop posting misinformation

Offering to buy or sell outside of eBay policy | eBay

Re: Partial GST refund

padi*0409 — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 04:43:51 GMT

@ep000001 wrote:

Some people think it is ok to just give the seller your Paypal email and have them send you money to your Paypal account.

Technically that is going outside of eBay to transact.

NO IT IS NOT, when you have been in a transaction with a seller and need to refund them for an item that has turned up, you simply ask them for their Paypal address and forward the money to them. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT RECENTLY TO A COUPLE OF SELLERS.

Don't believe everything you read on eBay,

Especially if the advice comes from someone with flawed perceptions of eBay's policies.

Edit. Beat me to it Stawks, I'm getting sick and tired of this poster continually passing out misinformation.....

Re: Partial GST refund

imastawka — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 04:47:58 GMT

Here Padi - you don't have to get up and find a brick wall for this one -

Re: Partial GST refund

padi*0409 — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 04:58:15 GMT

Thanks for that Stawks, but the brick wall is sometimes very satisfying.

........might just go and eat a thermometer with mercury in it..............hahahahaha

Hopefully sooner or later the mods will jump in and chastise the poster for posting false or misleading information which is against board policies.

Re: Partial GST refund

digital*ghost — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 05:07:47 GMT

Transacting outside of ebay is about one thing - fee avoidance.

Considering ebay get to keep fees instead of reimbursing any when a seller refunds outside of the eBay refund system, there is no way this kind of "transaction" is considered fee avoidance, and therefore no way it can even come close to qualifying as a transaction outside of eBay.

Re: Partial GST refund

*tippy*toes* — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:17:33 GMT

@padi*0409 wrote:
Thanks for that Stawks, but the brick wall is sometimes very satisfying.

........might just go and eat a thermometer with mercury in it..............hahahahaha

Hopefully sooner or later the mods will jump in and chastise the poster for posting false or misleading information which is against board policies.

Yeah, good luck with that Padster. Some members can post whatever tripe they like regardless of policies. Unless you are a regular, Regulars can't blink without being slapped. I doubt anything will happen to Dennis Denuto. It''s all about the vibe.

Re: Partial GST refund

ep000001 — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:35:22 GMT

The term "purchase" may also be classified as an established transaction. In other words, you cannot move and established transaction out of ebay.

Can you not see why?

The problem with GST is one reason.

You don't know what you are stating.

The policy strictly states:

" What is the policy?

Buyers and sellers can’t:

Engage in any action with a user on the site designed to complete or facilitate a transaction outside of eBay"

The keywords here is "Complete or facilitate"

Applying a "refund" is facilitating the transaction.

You obviously don't have a clue.

Re: Partial GST refund

ep000001 — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:46:10 GMT

That is utter rot.

eBay, by law, is responsible for processing GST.

If you transact outside of eBay, you are interfering with a Federal Process of Law.

eBay can be penalised according to law if eBay does not respond accordingly.

Even though ebay cannot control all aspects of the transaction, eBay clearly states that you cannot do it, and eBay clearly filters messages, and as such, and can deny culpability in the eyes of the law, and divulge the guilty parties.

However, unethical people always try to circumvent the system, eventually they get caught.

Not only that, eBay accounting, their sales statistics, user stats etc.., all would be messed up and inacurate, and that would not be very professional action on behalf of eBay.

You also do not know what you are talking about.

Sorry, i must advise people not to take your advice.

Re: Partial GST refund

ep000001 — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:49:50 GMT

That is not the correct way to refund a seller.

You also do not know what you are talking about.

I know, i have been talking to ebay customer support for the past week regarding a way to do it ethically.

The only way it can be done properly is for the seller to generate and issue you an invoice from within eBay.

Doing it your way, denies the ATO of the GST. That's unethical...

Re: Partial GST refund

katistrophik — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 21:43:27 GMT

The amount of times you have spoken to eBay, you SHOULD be an expert, Sadly you are NOT.

The next time I see you refer to a conversation you have had with eBay that utterly false information has been given to you by the rep you speak to, I will be contacting eBay Management to report it. It is unfair and unethical that they give you incorrect advice, and something needs to be done about.

Re: Partial GST refund

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 01:08:09 GMT

Oh great, Dennis Denuto has been released again..........

Try getting a law degree from somewhere other than Google, before you keep spouting utter tripe.

Re: Partial GST refund

digital*ghost — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 03:13:24 GMT

@ep000001 wrote:
That is utter rot.

eBay, by law, is responsible for processing GST.

If you transact outside of eBay, you are interfering with a Federal Process of Law.

eBay can be penalised according to law if eBay does not respond accordingly.

Even though ebay cannot control all aspects of the transaction, eBay clearly states that you cannot do it, and eBay clearly filters messages, and as such, and can deny culpability in the eyes of the law, and divulge the guilty parties.

However, unethical people always try to circumvent the system, eventually they get caught.

Not only that, eBay accounting, their sales statistics, user stats etc.., all would be messed up and inacurate, and that would not be very professional action on behalf of eBay.

You also do not know what you are talking about.

Sorry, i must advise people not to take your advice.

Ah yes, I'm sure lots of people are in danger of being prosecuted for eBay paying too much GST to the ATO - that's the end result of a seller refunding outside of eBay's system on a transaction where eBay collected GST.

My advice was for people to refund via eBay on transactions where eBay collected GST - did you miss that?

The post you have responded to was purely outlining what ebay does and does not view as transacting outside of eBay.

Can you tell me why, when a seller refunds a buyer for something like an INR, and the buyer subsequently receives the item, and the seller contacts eBay because the buyer now has the item and should re-pay, eBay's response is always - and I mean always in the very literal sense, because it's been in every single case, domestic or international sale - "that's between you and the buyer, you need to deal with them directly".

If you were right, eBay's response would be to facilitate the repayment on ebay. But it's not.

If you want to tell everyone they are wrong, maybe

A) pay attention to what they say first
B) learn how eBay actually apply their policies in these kinds of situations

Re: Partial GST refund

countessalmirena — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 09:43:08 GMT

Perhaps a template reply for buyers to use when contacting a seller about instances where a refund needs to be issued would be a good idea.

Dear [seller]

I'm contacting you to let you know that item [abcd], with transaction ID [xxxx] has not arrived. It's already [xxx] days past the Estimated Delivery Date, and at this stage I think we need to assume that the item is not going to arrive.

I will open a request for refund under eBay's MBG. Could you ensure that the refund is issued through eBay? Because (under Australian legislation) this is a "low value imported good", eBay collects the 10% GST from the buyer on the item at the point of sale. Only if the refund is issued through eBay will that GST portion will be refunded automatically to me by eBay.

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,

[buyer]