topic Re: Buyer beware in Buying

Buyer beware

graeme7518 — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:44:03 GMT

I bought a complete kitchen on eBay. It was expensive. I then spent a day organising people to help me dismantle it, transport it and reassemble it. I entered into a contract to sell it and install it. I spent hours measuring and planning. The seller then cancelled and refunded. I am several thousand dollars out of pocket. EBay said that because I got a refund - maybe I did, but it seems likely to take five days or so to happen - I have no rights. Ebay threatens buyers that they are entering into a contract that they must honour. There is no means of contacting them except by chat because the 'purchase was refunded'. Ebay's chat doesn't work - the minutes count down then when it gets to 1 minute it freezes. There is not even an email address to record disappointment. Be aware that when you purchase on eBay you are on your own. There is no redress other than refund. In any legitimate market the law of contract would allow redress through the courts. eBay is designed to ensure that can never happen. Draw your own conclusions, but beware.

Re: Buyer beware

jellybirddesigns — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 09:57:39 GMT

Why did the seller cancel?

Where is the seller registered (not item location), or item number?

There are some thing which really should never be bought on Ebay - the risk is just too great.

Ebay has nothing to do with any external companies or contractors you engage with outside of the transaction. If you have been refunded, there's nothing more to do, so not sure what "contract" you are talking about. Can you show us where Ebay "threatens" buyers?

The refund will make its way back to the source of payment you used. You would also have received an email about it.

If you really wanted warranties etc, you should have engaged a kitchen company.

Re: Buyer beware

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:23:40 GMT

@graeme7518 wrote:
- I bought a complete kitchen on eBay. It was expensive.
- I then spent a day organising people to help me dismantle it, transport it and reassemble it.
- I entered into a contract to sell it and install it.
- I spent hours measuring and planning.
- The seller then cancelled and refunded.
- I am several thousand dollars out of pocket.

I have broken the start of your Opening Post down into dot points to wrap my head around your predicament.

Here’s how I have interpreted your post:

- you bought a kitchen off someone on eBay

- the seller wanted the buyer, you, to dismantle and remove the kitchen from where it was installed

- upon buying the kitchen you set about getting people who could dismantle the kitchen and transport it to another site

- you entered into a contract with another person to sell and install this kitchen i.e. you intended to on-sell the kitchen

- you entered into this contract without first taking possession of the kitchen

- the seller of the kitchen cancelled the sale and refunded you

- you are out of pocket for the time you spent measuring and planning the on-selling and installation

Now, if I have got this right, then your problem is that without taking legal action there is nothing that can be done to compensate you for your time and efforts. It is wrong, I know, but that is the problem with on-selling before taking possession.

When you say that you are out thousands of dollars, does this include the profit you were going to make with the on-sale?

Re: Buyer beware

janeababe — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:22:53 GMT

What was the reason given by the seller for cancelling the sale?

While this situation is frustrating, no laws have been broken.

Your ‘outside’ sale and install has nothing to do with eBay, nor do the outside contractors you have engaged. That’s on you, I’m afraid.

I’ve actually bought 2 complete kitchens off eBay. One I got for auction at $1.20. I gave her $50 lol.

Second one is currently in my kitchen atm, repainted, repurposed and looking better than when I first bought it 😉. Didn’t need contractors thought 😁

Re: Buyer beware

imastawka — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 10:42:31 GMT

Is it just me?

I looks like the seller got the buyer to come in and dismantle the kitchen......

......and then cancelled the sale.

Thereby getting the kitchen removed free of charge?

Does that sound right?

edit: sale was cancelled...where is the outraged negative feedback?

Re: Buyer beware

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:00:31 GMT

It sounds as though OP didn't get to dismantle at all but spent a day arranging it etc.

Always risky to book things before having item in hand or at least a firm meeting day/time to dismantle.

Re: Buyer beware

repentatleisure1952 — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:06:59 GMT

I'm with kopes on this one.

Re: Buyer beware

sandypebbles — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:59:57 GMT

Buyers are only on their own if they expected to be covered for thing which are not covered or they expect special treatment

In that case, yes beware

What time was it you were trying to contact chat?

During their operational hours?

Re: Buyer beware

countessalmirena — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 21:33:22 GMT

@graeme7518,

When you enter into an agreement to purchase an item on eBay, and the seller, for whatever reason, cancels the transaction, under eBay's T&Cs you are entitled to a full refund but not to any reimbursement for consequential loss.

If you want to be covered for consequential loss, you should purchase from a trader or company in Australia, face to face, with a contract that specifies such reimbursement in the event that the goods are not supplied on the date on which it is intended that they are ready for you to pick up.

I hope that your actual loss (not potential loss) is minimal. If you have entered into a written contract with a customer, your situation is not enviable. Can you negotiate a new contract or simply cancel on the basis of your supplier having defaulted? With regard to the people that you'd organised to help dismantle and transport, you've organised them but not prepaid them, I hope. Were they guys that you knew, who might grumble a bit but essentially would take on the chin? Or were they handymen that you'd contracted? If the latter, I hope at least you hadn't prepaid them, and could contact them ASAP to let them know that your supplier defaulted and they were no longer required. A case of beer might be an acceptable amende honorable.

Re: Buyer beware

springyzone — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 21:43:25 GMT

Graeme said:

I bought a complete kitchen on eBay. It was expensive. I then spent a day organising people to help me dismantle it, transport it and reassemble it. I entered into a contract to sell it and install it. I spent hours measuring and planning. The seller then cancelled and refunded. I am several thousand dollars out of pocket.

--------------

There's your problem right there. You jumped the gun.

No sale is really completed until you have the item and you've been able to check it was as described.

I understand your disappointment but really, you were way ahead of yourself to resell this kitchen before you even took possession of it.

I can also understand your frustration at hiring people to help you dismantle and transport the kitchen and perhaps paying a deposit on this, only to have it all fall apart, but one thing I do wonder is if you had already communicated with the seller to organise a pick up day and if so, how long after that was it before they cancelled? Had you informed the seller you would be hiring workers to help dismantle/transport the kitchen?

If the answer to the above is no, and you went ahead and organised the workers etc almost immediately after the sale finished on ebay, then you were premature and you can't expect ebay to do more than see you are refunded.

If the answer to the questions is yes, did you actually go around to the seller's home ahead of all your planning, to measure up and talk to them about how you planned to hire workers to dismantle and remove the kitchen? Did you give them an exact date (I presume they would want it gone asap). If this is the case, I can well understand your anger.

As for hours of planning, I am presuming that was for installment in the home of whoever bought the kitchen from you. That's on you. I understand you were looking for a smooth transition, straight from the seller's home to your new buyer's home, but inconvenient as it is, you'd be best to have possession of a kitchen before you do that.

I can't see you getting compensation, other than a refund.

Re: Buyer beware

domino-710 — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 23:02:24 GMT

@graeme7518 wrote:
I bought a complete kitchen on eBay. It was expensive. I then spent a day organising people to help me dismantle it, transport it and reassemble it. I entered into a contract to sell it and install it. I spent hours measuring and planning. The seller then cancelled and refunded. I am several thousand dollars out of pocket. EBay said that because I got a refund - maybe I did, but it seems likely to take five days or so to happen - I have no rights. Ebay threatens buyers that they are entering into a contract that they must honour. There is no means of contacting them except by chat because the 'purchase was refunded'. Ebay's chat doesn't work - the minutes count down then when it gets to 1 minute it freezes. There is not even an email address to record disappointment. Be aware that when you purchase on eBay you are on your own. There is no redress other than refund. In any legitimate market the law of contract would allow redress through the courts. eBay is designed to ensure that can never happen. Draw your own conclusions, but beware.

From where I sit - the red is the only information pertaining to eBay.

Re: Buyer beware

janeababe — Sun, 30 Jan 2022 23:16:05 GMT

I’ve kudo’d the OP hoping it will bring him back, because this scenario intrigues me.

I’m wondering if the seller got wind of the on-sell? (Probably at a huge increase in price, too, no doubt) and wasn’t keen to sell then.

Im also wondering if the seller wasn’t keen to have a heap of ‘unknown’ guys in their home to dismantle a kitchen. It only takes 2 people to dismantle a kitchen, in all honesty.

…And as for moving heavy pantries and cupboards, that’s what trolleys are for! Lifting straps for granite bench tops etc….. really, just two people and half a day-3/4 day. (And a truck with an electric loading ramp)

Would really like to know more about this scenario. Hope he comes back 😁

Re: Buyer beware

graeme7518 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:27:32 GMT

Thanks for your reply. I presume the buyer cancelled because they got a higher offer from elsewhere, but have no way of knowing for sure. There was contract at law inasmuch as there was offer, acceptance and consideration. If the vendor had advised immediately there was no intention of going through with the sale, it wouldn't have been a problem. The delay in cancelling was the problem. If you look at any page on EBay when you click on the buy button there is a warning that you are entering an agreement that you are obligated to pay for. Presumably EBay's system has some means of enforcing this. That was the threat to which I referred. I am aware that the money will find its way back in due course, but I am out of pocket in the meantime. We are not talking about ten or a hundred dollars. In any other marketplace, if I buy and pay for something there is expected to be supply (performance). That has nothing to do with warranty. Are you really arguing that it is acceptable to sell a high priced item on EBay, take payment, not supply and then at some point in the future simply cancel and refund presumably because someone else came along and offered more? Or because the vendor had no intention of selling for the starting bid, and just started low to get people interested. That is simply dishonest.

Re: Buyer beware

repentatleisure1952 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:33:06 GMT

"Presumably EBay"s system has some means of enforcing this".

Well no they don't.

How could they force a buyer to pay or a seller to complete a sale?

Sorry this happened to you.

Re: Buyer beware

graeme7518 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:47:00 GMT

That is fairly accurate. The onsell was not for profit, it was to be installed at cost as a favour to a disadvantaged community member as a service. Having told that person that a kitchen is to be provided I feel obligated to follow through and will have to start again. The 'thousands' was bit hyperbolic, but the time of the various people involved would certainly be costed at more than a thousand dollars. Your point about onselling without taking possession is valid, but the flip side of that coin is that I would run the risk of having an unwanted kitchen sitting in my lounge.

I would take legal action, but there is no way of identifying the vendor.

My point was that there are risks inherent in such a purchase that I had not properly thought through and to warn others of that. I am also appalled that there appears to be no way of contacting eBay to even discuss it.

Re: Buyer beware

graeme7518 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:50:54 GMT

You transported it yourself without help? Did your own plumbing and electricals? Impressive but a bit illegal. I too have successfully bought and installed kitchens from eBay, but the nuisance value of this one has more than negated the benefits of those successes. Cheers

Re: Buyer beware

graeme7518 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:55:04 GMT

No the buyer was to dismantle and remove, but because the sale was cancelled it didn't happen. Once the sale is cancelled, feedback can't be left or it would have been blistering. That is part of my point - vendors can behave badly and it doesn't even show on their record.

Re: Buyer beware

padi*0409 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:57:16 GMT

@graeme7518 wrote

Once the sale is cancelled, feedback can't be left or it would have been blistering. That is part of my point - vendors can behave badly and it doesn't even show on their record.

So who was the neg for that you left if it wasn't for this transaction ????

Re: Buyer beware

graeme7518 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 23:59:32 GMT

If I buy something and pay for it, surely providing the item I paid for is covered. It is 'special treatment' to get something I paid for? Yes chat was in operational hours. Time counted down and then froze at 1 minute repeatedly.

Re: Buyer beware

k1ooo-slr-sales — Fri, 04 Feb 2022 00:24:21 GMT

@graeme7518 wrote:
That is fairly accurate.

nailed it! (doing the happy dance)