topic Return Fail in Buying

Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 00:52:07 GMT

Purchased items from China seller Nov 26 2021, arrived Jan 13 2022. Sent items were incorrect, seller accepted return, received msg that seller cannot send return postage envelope, paid for Austpost return, $23.40, items cost $ 36.19. Item arrived China 27 JAN 22, still listed as "Onboard for delivery". Meantime Ebay closed the return, whatever that means. Asked the seller to see tracking info, proof of posting and progress. Asked for immediate refund since late deliveries from Chinapost is outside my control, and it is they who insisted that items be returned first for refund.

So far, no reply form seller, no ability to access Ebay assistance. This is the third return problem I have experienced in the last few months, all from China, all via Ebay purchases. So much for purchase guarantees by Ebay ! Seems you are the loser, the seller, Ebay, wins.

Re: Return Fail

sandypebbles — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 01:06:03 GMT

What date did you open the item not as described dispute?

Was it within the time limit given ?

Or did you not go through a dispute, but just return off your own bat/the seller's say so?

Did you upload the tracking information to the dispute when you returned the item?

Was it during their operational hours when you tried to contact eBay?

No good asking the seller these things, that has to be done via the proper process

There should be no reason whatsoever for there to be an issue if the correct process has been followed by the buyer

What were these sellers feedback like?

Re: Return Fail

louisas_lines — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 02:55:33 GMT

If the seller approves the return as Not As Described, then they are resonsponsible for the return postage.

The always say that they cannot provide you with a return shipping label.

You need to get them to agree in an email that they will refund the postage amount of $xx.xx on return of the item, as well as the full amount of the original purchase. You can use the Australia Post online calculator to work out the postage cost. Don't send anything without getting this agreement.

The last time this happened, the seller was appalled at the return postage cost and just stalled. Because they didn't agree to pay for the return postage I didn't send it. The case finally timed out so Ebay gave me a refund and I kept the item.

Re: Return Fail

papermoon.lady — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 03:56:46 GMT

What do you mean no ability to access eBay assistance? Do you mean that the return case is closed and you cannot add any information any more?

There are other ways to let them know. Have you tried contacting them via live chat?

Re: Return Fail

countessalmirena — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:08:16 GMT

OP, it is unlikely that you will have to return a SNAD item to a Chinese seller.

When opening a refund/return request, you need to make sure that you don’t just assume the seller will pay for return tracked postage. Ask for label. Seller is unlikely to be able to provide this. Contact eBay Live Chat during business hours, once the seller has agreed to the return. Point out that seller is in China and has not provided paid postage for the return. Also show cost of tracked return postage; explain cost of return not commensurate with cost of item (if that is the case).

It is more than likely that in such a case, you will not need to return the item and eBay will refund you… but you need to be active in contacting eBay via Live Chat as well as pursuing the matter in the dispute.

Remember too that the dispute will close automatically without a refund being issued if you don’t escalate by asking eBay to step in once the return label hasn’t been provided. Read through the MBG help page and take note of the relevant timeframes.

Your only hope now is contacting Live Help chat and asking for their help… but you have put yourself in a bad negotiating position by sending back at your own expense.

See what you can do, anyway.

Re: Return Fail

jellybirddesigns — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:15:33 GMT

Please go and have a read of the buyers guidelines.

When a seller is not located domestically and they want the item back, THEY need to provide you with the postage funds upfront/separately as they are unable to send a shipping label.

It is a common tactic of some overseas sellers to get you to send the item back at your cost, but you should never be out of pocket for items that are defective or not as described. You have no idea if the address they give you is even valid.

Just because a seller tells you they cannot provide a shipping label is not a reason for them to avoid postage payment if they want it returned. Their only alternative is to refund you.

If you think about it - even if the seller received the item and Ebay closed the case in your favour, the most you would ever get back from a seller is your original item cost and original postage - there is no way for Ebay to force a seller to refund more than what is in the transaction.

Ebay is not the winner here - the seller is, because you are a gullible buyer.

Please follow procedure in future and you will not be out of pocket. Open the correct cases to make things formal and get Ebay to step in if the seller wants you to return at your cost.

Also, perhaps buy local instead of Chinese?

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 23:42:11 GMT

@sandypebbles wrote:
What date did you open the item not as described dispute?
SAME DAY OPENED A RETURN REQUEST TO BOTH EBAY AND SELLER

Was it within the time limit given ?

Or did you not go through a dispute, but just return off your own bat/the seller's say so?

Did you upload the tracking information to the dispute when you returned the item?
YES

Was it during their operational hours when you tried to contact eBay?
YES

No good asking the seller these things, that has to be done via the proper process
FOLLOWED PROPER PROCESS

There should be no reason whatsoever for there to be an issue if the correct process has been followed by the buyer

What were these sellers feedback like?
LISTED BY EBAY AS AN OUTSTANDING SELLER

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 23:43:38 GMT

@louisas_lines wrote:
If the seller approves the return as Not As Described, then they are resonsponsible for the return postage.

The always say that they cannot provide you with a return shipping label.

You need to get them to agree in an email that they will refund the postage amount of $xx.xx on return of the item, as well as the full amount of the original purchase. You can use the Australia Post online calculator to work out the postage cost. Don't send anything without getting this agreement.
AFTER THREE SUCCESSIVE EMAILS, THEY AGREED TO POSTAGE COSTS

The last time this happened, the seller was appalled at the return postage cost and just stalled. Because they didn't agree to pay for the return postage I didn't send it. The case finally timed out so Ebay gave me a refund and I kept the item.

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 23:44:56 GMT

@papermoon.lady wrote:
What do you mean no ability to access eBay assistance? Do you mean that the return case is closed and you cannot add any information any more?
YES THAT IS WHAT I MEANT
There are other ways to let them know. Have you tried contacting them via live chat?
NO I DID NOT CHAT WITH EBAY - WILL TRY THAT

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 23:47:29 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
OP, it is unlikely that you will have to return a SNAD item to a Chinese seller.
I THOUGHT THAT TOO, SURPRISED THAT SELLER WANTED THAT

When opening a refund/return request, you need to make sure that you don’t just assume the seller will pay for return tracked postage. Ask for label. Seller is unlikely to be able to provide this. Contact eBay Live Chat during business hours, once the seller has agreed to the return. Point out that seller is in China and has not provided paid postage for the return. Also show cost of tracked return postage; explain cost of return not commensurate with cost of item (if that is the case).
IT WAS QUITE A NUMBER OF EMAILS WHICH LED TO THEM ACCEPTING THE POSTAGE COSTS

It is more than likely that in such a case, you will not need to return the item and eBay will refund you… but you need to be active in contacting eBay via Live Chat as well as pursuing the matter in the dispute.

Remember too that the dispute will close automatically without a refund being issued if you don’t escalate by asking eBay to step in once the return label hasn’t been provided. Read through the MBG help page and take note of the relevant timeframes.

Your only hope now is contacting Live Help chat and asking for their help… but you have put yourself in a bad negotiating position by sending back at your own expense.

See what you can do, anyway.

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 00:04:03 GMT

@jellybirddesigns wrote:
Please go and have a read of the buyers guidelines.

When a seller is not located domestically and they want the item back, THEY need to provide you with the postage funds upfront/separately as they are unable to send a shipping label.
It is a common tactic of some overseas sellers to get you to send the item back at your cost, but you should never be out of pocket for items that are defective or not as described. You have no idea if the address they give you is even valid.

ALL COMMUNICATION WAS VIA EBAY. EBAY WAS AWARE THAT SELLER CANNOT PROVIDE RETURN POSTAGE LABEL, AND ADVISED THAT I CONTACT SELLER TO AGREE TO REFUND RETURN POSTAGE COSTS

Just because a seller tells you they cannot provide a shipping label is not a reason for them to avoid postage payment if they want it returned. Their only alternative is to refund you.
SELLER AGRRED IN WRITING TO REFUND POSTAGE COSTS AFTER A FEW EMAIL EXCHANGES

If you think about it - even if the seller received the item and Ebay closed the case in your favour, the most you would ever get back from a seller is your original item cost and original postage - there is no way for Ebay to force a seller to refund more than what is in the transaction.
HENCE MY MANY EFFORTS TO SELLER TO AGREE TO THAT IN WRITING

Ebay is not the winner here - the seller is, because you are a gullible buyer.
Please follow procedure in future and you will not be out of pocket. Open the correct cases to make things formal and get Ebay to step in if the seller wants you to return at your cost.
THAT IS WHAT I DID.
THERE IS A CUT OFF POINT AT WHICH EBAY CLOSES THE RETURN UNLESS ASKED TO STEP IN. I DID NOT ASK FOR THAT, SINCE THE RETURN IS STILL IN PROCESS, IE, "ON BOARD FOR DELIVERY". SELLER ALSO WOULD HAVE RECEIVED NOTIFICATION THAT THE RETURN IS CLOSED. MAYBE THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE YET TO REPLY TO MY REQUEST TO REFUND AS PROMISED.

Also, perhaps buy local instead of Chinese?
NOT EVERY PRODUCT AVAILABLE FROM CHINA IS ALSO AVAILABLE FROM OZ SELLERS.

Finally, may I point out that every online transaction is underscored by trusting a seller that the products will be as described, fit for purpose, and that any problems with the transaction will be handled by a seller in a timely and helpful manner. Once the buyer has paid, the process is at the hands of a seller, who may, or may not be motivated to honour any or all of such a "contract".

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 00:05:37 GMT

Thanks to all who addressed this post.

Re: Return Fail

jellybirddesigns — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 00:41:44 GMT

It doesn't matter how many emails it took for them to "agree" to postage costs - they never actually sent you the money, so you didn't follow proper procedure.

Re: Return Fail

elcheapo.123 — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 05:32:31 GMT

Perhaps you didn't read replies. They did not agree to send money, only to refund the total once the goods arrived. I advised them of the postage cost prior to returning. Why would I not take the agreement from the seller as actual ? That arrangement was seen by ebay, but doubtful that an actual person read any of that. It would assist if my many transgressions of "proper procedure" were replaced by helpful replies from you. Not for the future, but this actual situation. If not, please drop the issue.

Re: Return Fail

imastawka — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 06:43:48 GMT

My 2c worth is -

Don't ever be out of pocket for postage.

A seller will never reimburse once they have their item back.

Don't send it back until you have a postage label or the funds to post.

Especially if it's to China

Re: Return Fail

jellybirddesigns — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:04:06 GMT

@elcheapo.123 wrote:
Perhaps you didn't read replies. They did not agree to send money, only to refund the total once the goods arrived. I advised them of the postage cost prior to returning. Why would I not take the agreement from the seller as actual ? That arrangement was seen by ebay, but doubtful that an actual person read any of that.

You really believe that a Chinese seller is going to reimburse you for the postage costs that you incurred? I don't think there's enough space for the number of eye rolls I want to put here.

Replies have been helpful - it's you who chose to send an item back at a massive cost to a random seller who didn't send you the right goods in the first place, and it's you who didn't follow procedure which I specifically showed you from Ebays guidelines which was to get the money upfront - not negotiate.

Ebay is completely aware the there are very few sellers who will ever follow through on a promise to reimburse after the fact, which is exactly why they have that wording. You can choose to do things exactly the way you want to and not heed any advice, but in the end, you are the one with no refund and no way to get any additional postage back from the seller. You have no idea if the address they gave you was even valid and the seller often claims they never received it, even if the tracking says otherwise. Again, Ebay has no way to make the seller pay for anything extra, so maybe the package will be sent back to you if it can't be delivered.

Had you stuck to procedure, you would have received a refund and been able to do what you liked with the goods.

Your trust in sellers is misplaced if you think that all of them will "do the right thing". Many will only do what they are obliged to and not an inch more.

Re: Return Fail

countessalmirena — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:02:02 GMT

@elcheapo.123, I’m surprised at the tone of your reply to jellybirddesigns, who is one of the kindest and most helpful eBay members posting on these boards.

At any rate, what jellybird has said is very straightforward and it may help you in a number of ways.

Firstly, it will help by explaining to you what to do if you have a similar problem in future.

Secondly, it will help you to be able to explain to eBay Live Chat that you were depending upon the seller’s promise to reimburse you the return postage cost.

Did you inform the seller of the tracked return postage cost before the seller agreed? (This is important.) If so, it may help you.

What you will need to do now is get on to Live Chat and politely explain the situation as simply as possible. Give tracking number. Don’t - for goodness’ sake! - mention late delivery, delays, not responsible for delivery, etc. Just say that you returned the item as it was SNAD (significantly not as described). Explain seller agreed to refund return postage. Explain that you are currently out $xx.xx. Ask the CS rep to manually issue the full refund including return postage AS THE SELLER AGREED.

Be very polite. Don’t introduce extraneous information. Have your proof of postage handy (scanned and saved as either PDF or image file). Don’t leave chat until resolution reached.

Perhaps you will be lucky and the rep will agree re full refund.

In future, don’t let seller play you. The seller must actually issue you the return postage cost before you return the item. eBay’s policy is very clear: don’t send on a promise. If seller doesn’t provide either postage label or issue you postage cost within 3 days of agreeing to accept return, ask eBay to step in.

Re: Return Fail

domino-710 — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:15:02 GMT

My 2c worth - don't buy from China.

Full Stop.

Re: Return Fail

imastawka — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:39:02 GMT

@domino-710 wrote:
My 2c worth - don't buy from China.

Full Stop.

I do, but from proven sellers.

I don't have any problems.