topic Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement in Buying

Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

jessejbruce — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 23:54:58 GMT

Hi,

I Have read the Paypal user agreement update and it said that people will no longer be able to use Paypal to make transactions to business.

I rely on eBay for regular purchases and have done for 20 years.

If sellers could please starting adding the direct deposit option native

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

earthdreamer — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 07:39:16 GMT

The new agreement actually states:

Business accounts will not be able to receive personal transactions and PayPal accounts will not be able to send personal transactions to business accounts. Whilst we are updating our online agreements in relation to this change on the above effective date, we will only implement this change from 31 October 2022.

Any transaction involving buying or selling is by its nature a business transaction, not a personal one, so I don’t think you have anything to worry about. At least that is the way I read it.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

jellybirddesigns — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 08:15:24 GMT

Paypal is being phased out from Ebay altogether.

Sellers have not been able to use Paypal to receive money since July 2020.

At some point buyers will no longer be able to use it for purchasing either, but there are lots of other ways to pay. When you check out, you'll see all other other methods that Ebay offers, such as Apple Pay, Google Pay and of course, your credit card, etc.

Direct deposits are the worst option for buyers as you have NO protection against sellers if they don't send the item, or send the wrong thing, for example.

You can still use Paypal on any other site or with any online vendor who accepts it.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

janeababe — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 08:42:48 GMT

Honestly, I really don’t know why eBay is getting rid of PayPal.
I don’t google pay and I don’t Apple Pay either.

Don’t own a credit card. Definitely won’t be bank transfer, even if it was an option.

Looks like my eBay shopping days may be limited. 😉

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

springyzone — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 22:40:11 GMT

I am with you on this, Jane.

Totally.

I find it quite bewildering as well as annoying.

I don't google pay, I don't apple pay and although I own a credit card, I much prefer to use paypal, rather than reveal my credit card number to every man and his dog. That is exactly why I like paypal, that layer of protection.

I especially like that if ebay ever let me down, I would have paypal as back up.

I have used paypal before for a refund, though not for an ebay purchase. Saved me $80 as a business had gone into rceivership.

What astounds me is that just as paypal is really spreading and becoming available on lots of other buying sites now, ebay is deciding to cut it out? Why cut out a common system that people use. Ebay customers are especially used to it.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

jellybirddesigns — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 04:32:31 GMT

@springy - Ebay and Paypal officially split back in 2015, with an agreement in place to continue for a certain number of years beyond that. This phase is coming to an end, and PP will be removed entirely for all buyers from around the middle of 2023 (if I remember correctly).

Whilst many online sites do offer PP, huge companies like Amazon don't.

I understand that PP backed you up when Ebay let you down, but on the reverse side, we know there are sellers who have been scammed by buyers who open up secondary disputes in PP.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

jessejbruce — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 06:43:02 GMT

Hi,

In reply to the thread in general.

Ebay started out 20 years ago with direct deposit the main option for Australia and money order.

Its started out with credit cards in the USA and when Ebay Australia took off and got its own domain Australians opted to prefer to pay by bank transfer so it was the main option as internet banking had just become established online.

Paypal came quiet some time later when the paypal company started to get popular.

As far as seller protection in 20 years i have only made on claim and it was a postal claim for broken items.

It used to be common to totally check out the seller with feed back and see what others were saying.

The same still applies,if people are saying good things bank transfer is no issue.

Ebay could help a bit by making all listings public in the feedback profile so one can see easily exactly what people are buying and what they are saying.

Ebay has done this with the popular sellers.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

countessalmirena — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 06:51:11 GMT

Neither Apple Pay nor Google Pay have buyer protection. That means that the advice we’d invariably offer to buyers if something goes wrong – about having that protection in case they’ve allowed themselves to be strung along past the eBay MBG timeframe – will change drastically.

For people buying within eBay on a computer (desktop version), I know that they can use Google Pay, but I don’t think they can use Apple Pay unless they’re using a Mac with Touch ID. I know there’s a rumour about Apple Pay becoming available for Google Chrome and Edge browsers, so it will probably end up being a desktop payment option for non-Mac users by the time PayPal is removed as an option.

I don’t think I’ve used Google Pay. I do use Apple Pay, ever since COVID-19 and the risk of fomite transmission, in in-person transactions. When purchasing from eBay sellers (and I mean overseas sellers mostly), of course we don’t have the consumer protections that we have in purchasing from Australian businesses.

As I understand it, if a person (let’s call him Quinn) who paid via Google Pay or Apple Pay doesn’t receive their purchase / receives item not as described and doesn’t act within the 30-day period under eBay’s MBG, Quinn’s only fallback is through his credit card or debit card. He should check the T&Cs of his card provider to know the dispute timeframes. There’s no automatic process for paid-for return postage. It’s not as clear-cut.

That in turn should drive Quinn to open a dispute quickly, less inclined to give the seller any grace period.

It might possibly mean that Quinn will work out the best ways to ensure he’s protected from bad buying decision outcomes (several INADs and several INRs), by framing any chargeback requests in a manner more likely to result in a successful outcome.

His card issuer will respond to the perceived increased risk… I’m sure of that.

It’s not as straightforward. INR claims, fine. But proving that the item is not as described sounds like a nightmare.

See https://www.choice.com.au/money/credit-cards-and-loans/credit-cards/articles/chargebacks-how-do-they-work

The timeframes for Visa and MasterCard chargebacks differ a little, but generally speaking Quinn is looking at at maximum of 120 days. There are exceptions such as when Quinn is paying for something that won’t be provided for some time… eg, booking a holiday, where the chargeback timeframe may be as long as 540 days, but Quinn definitely should not even THINK of applying this to eBay purchases. Maximum of 120 days should be anticipated, and in cases of SNAD, there may be difficult or onerous conditions involved for Quinn, such as finding an independent expert who will attest that the item is not as described.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

countessalmirena — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 06:58:20 GMT

I used to spruik bank transfer for eBay purchases.

I no longer do, because online fraud has evolved, because international purchases aren’t covered by ACL (and international purchases are now much riskier), and because there isn’t the same perception of an honour system in eBay.

No way on God’s green earth would I make a payment to an international eBay seller by bank transfer. I make international bank transfers only in particular official circumstances.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

janeababe — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 22:36:08 GMT

@countess…..

have you ever initiated a charge back with your card service provider?
I have done so once, and let me tell you, the hoops I (the buyer) had to jump through, and the ‘proof’ I had to supply was ridiculously time consuming and tedious, to say the least.
I’m assuming that for some part of that, it’s to deter such an action from the card holder, because it wasn’t necessary for the claim. Banks hate parting with the funds once they have it 😉

I did get my money back, but it took 90 days! Not an easy process. (St George Bank) (I can’t speak for other banks), so if PayPal is removed as a safe option on eBay, then I think they will see a HUGE DROP in sales.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

springyzone — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 22:59:08 GMT

@jellybirddesigns wrote:
@springy - Ebay and Paypal officially split back in 2015, with an agreement in place to continue for a certain number of years beyond that. This phase is coming to an end, and PP will be removed entirely for all buyers from around the middle of 2023 (if I remember correctly).

Whilst many online sites do offer PP, huge companies like Amazon don't.

I understand that PP backed you up when Ebay let you down, but on the reverse side, we know there are sellers who have been scammed by buyers who open up secondary disputes in PP.

And there you have it, one of the reasons I am nowhere as keen to buy via Amazon. (The other reason is they are not cheap, I can usually find a better deal eg at Myer. Who would have thought!)

If Amazon had any sense, it would introduce paypal as an option. I'm always annoyed when I want to buy something from a site and have to use a credit card as it means getting up, going looking for my bag and purse and dragging out the card to copy the number. Some people know their number by heart but I am not one of them.

The simpler you make life for a buyer, the better.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

jellybirddesigns — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 01:52:14 GMT

@springy,

most sites allow for storing of payment details in the same way that Ebay does, why not do that? My card is on file with several of the larger sites and have never had an issue.

In fact, I don't even carry my cards with me anymore as I have them saved in my iPhone Apple Wallet which offers higher encrypted security when I tap to pay. This makes life even more simple.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

springyzone — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 02:21:40 GMT

I think my card details are saved on a few sites but Amazon isn't one of them, although I have bought from them before (and regretted it).

I don't have an iphone apple wallet, my phone's a samsung.

I'm a bit suspicious of giving card details, uploading anything to clouds and so on. I guess I am very old school. I've no doubt your details are safe, I just haven't got around to doing a lot of these things myself.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

countessalmirena — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 02:52:21 GMT

janebabe, yes, I have done a chargeback once, on my own behalf, and I also helped my dad with a chargeback. It wasn’t really onerous; letter was emailed to me to complete, returned to the bank/s, refund given within a week (but with the bank informing me that it was a temporary courtesy refund and might be reversed depending on the ultimate outcome). Final outcome held no surprises.

In both cases, it was for INR.

I’m absolutely certain that SNAD would be vastly more convoluted and bothersome.

I’m very wary about storing card details with any site online. If I must pay by card but there’s an option not to store the card details, I opt for that. (Springy, my memory acts as a “wallet”.)

But… there’s no point in any of us being careful about stored details if we don’t practise safe online habits… as in being sure we haven’t malware or a keylogger on our computer. Up to date antivirus, not visiting dodgy sites, not opening dodgy emails, no clicking onto links… so that just the act of entering card details on a site will not end up with scammers capturing those keystrokes: that’s going to be more important than ever.

In one way, lack of secondary buyer protection might be a wake-up call for buyers relying on such protection when making purchases that they know deep down are probably not going to work out. But realistically, human nature being what it is, I suspect a lot of people will just continue to be caught out.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

twyngwyn — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 02:15:40 GMT

PayPal Policy Updates

The way I read it...it's about personal transactions to business accounts....fee avoidance!

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

jessejbruce — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 05:29:06 GMT

At present the Paypal Business account is a switch on a standard account,the account becomes both.

Obviously this is changing.

I work with Paypal downstream volunteer and sales for personal transactions to ecommerce shops have halted in the last month, other than business transactions still seem to be regular.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

papermoon.lady — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 05:36:16 GMT

I have been feeling anxious about the end of PayPal for quite a while (apparently in July of next year). I do not want to sign up for anything else that does not give me a clear advantage (like the ability to open a case).

I do have a cc, but PayPal offers free returns (if you signed up) as well as a much longer protection than eBay.

I think more people will open eBay cases if they know it's their only option, and this will ultimately be a pain for sellers too.

Re: Direct Deposit Paypal User Agreement

*sons_and_daughters* — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 12:17:37 GMT

I think that a lot of buyers will decide to maybe shop elsewhere if they no longer have the safety of PayPal here. Not everyone wants to open multiple different accounts just to buy on ebay. I'm not interested in apple pay, or zip pay, or any of the other payment options on offer. Sure, they will tell you to pay with a credit card. Newsflash, not everyone has a credit card, even in this day and age. I do have one. My credit limit is $100.

Buyers like the safety of PayPal. Some buyers leave things too long for a MBG claim, for many reasons, but know they have PayPal to fall back on. As for the credit card chargeback, as Jane said, it can be an absolute pain in the proverbial.

I believe that ebay will see a significant dive when they cut ties completely. I'm not one to believe the "people are leaving ebay in droves" that we see so often, but maybe with this, it could actually be true.