topic Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund in Buying

Item broken, seller refusing to refund

decoretrocollectables — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 07:25:31 GMT

SO annoyed, shade arrived broken, seller refusing to refund, seller would't use paypal, seller reported, any suggestions on where I should go next???

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

kopenhagen5 — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:06:38 GMT

Hi michelle, should have used PayPal even if seller says otherwise, if it's in their listing, they are obligated to offer it.

Hope it wasn't expensive, all you can do now is use feedback to describe the transaction. But be factual so seller can't have it removed.

If you feel it was Aust Post that damaged it, you can take it and all the packaging to AP for a claim but usually it's because seller didn't pack it properly.

Lesson learnt I guess.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

foxette-in-sox — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:08:35 GMT

What do you mean seller wouldn't use Paypal?

ALL sellers have to use either Paypal,Paymate or cc merchant facilities as you know because you're a seller yourself-that was your 1st mistake sorry as you should have refused to pay any other way unless it was cash on pickup.

If you paid seller via bank deposit,there's nothing much you can do except leave neg feedback.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

decoretrocollectables — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:11:54 GMT

Thanks for your responses. I did query they didn't have paypal as an option, but they had paymate-I'm not familiar with it at all. I rang ebay, I should have followed my gut & not used bank deposit really... Lesson learnt.. Ive been told I can open a dispute with my bank though, might follow this up 🙂

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

lyndal1838 — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:22:18 GMT

If the seller offered Paymate they are not obliged to offer Paypal as well.

I am not sure how you can dispute a bank deposit. A chargeback is for credit card transactions.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

buyingboxy62 — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:01:21 GMT

THe item broke because it wasn't packed correctly, there was flimsy bubble wrap not ever around the whole shade... I know none of us are perfect, I recently had a shade break in transit & took responsibility & paid a refund, I'm the one who has to do the tooing & frooing with Australia Post, & I expect the seller to do the same, at the very least & they have gotten off scoot free... It's a joke, they get away with it!!!

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

davewil1964 — Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:32:18 GMT

eBay has safe payment methods required for a reason.

As you are now aware.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

tall_bearded — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:05:58 GMT

It wouldn’t have mattered if you had used PayPal because PayPal buyer protection doesn’t include items damaged in transit.

The first thing you should do is lodge a claim with AP and if they pay, then problem solved.

In the alternative if they reject the claim on the basis that the packaging was inadequate, you can take action against the seller by initiating a small claim.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

tall_bearded — Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:42:24 GMT

Oh and in case someone wants to take issue with “PayPal buyer protection doesn’t include items damaged in transit”

PayPal provides no buyer protection in addition to what the buyer already has under Australian Consumer Protection Law. Instead PayPal buyer protection is nothing more than an advocacy service so that the buyer can access those rights without the need to take the seller to the small claims court.

Under the laws dealing with sales contracts, when it comes to specific goods, and 99.9 percent of goods sold on eBay are specific goods, those goods become the property of the buyer once paid for.

When it comes to specific goods which are to be delivered, though they are the property of the buyer once paid for, they remain at the sellers risk until the time they are handed over to carrier. That is if they are lost or damaged before they are handed over to the carrier the buyer has a right of recovery against the seller.

However when the item is handed over to the carrier they are deemed delivered and as such risk passes from the seller to the buyer. Why? Because from that point onwards the seller has no control as to what happens to them . This means once handed over to the carrier the buyer has no further right of recovery against the seller of loss or damage, unless the buyer proves that loss or damage was as a result of seller negligence.

Deemed delivery has exactly the same legal effect as if the seller had handed the item to the buyer, and therefore, if the item is damaged AFTER it has been handed over to the carrier, it is the same as if it had been damaged after the buyer had received it.

This is the reason why, whereas is some overseas agreements, items damaged in transit are specifically included in the definition of Item Significantly Not As Described, there is no mention of it in the Australian agreement.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

nkj412 — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:43:32 GMT

you are also dreaming of some unknown world.Seller is the master and fire shots,supported by ebay and paypal.Seller can take your money and

-deregister/disappear

-don't send the item

-put onus on buyer to prove it was not delivered even if it was to be picked up and seller has not provided address of pick up

-ebay,since has received its fee will not bother and its good for nothing cutomer service will keep advancing its rotten defence in terms and conditions.

PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE EASY AND TROUBLE FREE MONEY,EBAY OFFERS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

nkj412 — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:45:28 GMT

PAYMATE CHARGE FEE FROM BUYERS,THAT IS WHY AND HOW SUCH SELLERS WILL USE PENNY PINCHING OPPORTUN ITIES

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

nkj412 — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:47:56 GMT

AS IF SMALL CLAIM IS HANGING ON THE TREE?hAVE YOU EVER MADE A SMALL CLAIM?

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

foxette-in-sox — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 04:52:55 GMT

AS IF SMALL CLAIM IS HANGING ON THE TREE?hAVE YOU EVER MADE A SMALL CLAIM?

Please turn your caps lock off-its considerd yell

ing ad nauseum or emphasising on the internet 🙂

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

***super_nova*** — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 06:22:13 GMT

you are also dreaming of some unknown world.Seller is the master and fire shots,supported by ebay and paypal.Seller can take your money and

-deregister/disappear

-don't send the item

-put onus on buyer to prove it was not delivered even if it was to be picked up and seller has not provided address of pick up

-ebay,since has received its fee will not bother and its good for nothing cutomer service will keep advancing its rotten defence in terms and conditions.

PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE EASY AND TROUBLE FREE MONEY,EBAY OFFERS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY

Not really.

- Seller cannot deregister for 60 days from last transaction

- if seller does not send item PP will refund you

- if seller cannot prove it was sent PP will refund you

Why should eBay do anything, when it is PP who you need to deal with for your protection?

And anybody who is committing fraud can be reported to the police and will have charges laid against them.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

the_hawk* — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 23:34:11 GMT

It wouldn’t have mattered if you had used PayPal because PayPal buyer protection doesn’t include items damaged in transit.

The first thing you should do is lodge a claim with AP and if they pay, then problem solved.

In the alternative if they reject the claim on the basis that the packaging was inadequate, you can take action against the seller by initiating a small claim.

One would think that a broken item would qualify as not as described 😉

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

lyndal1838 — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 02:10:52 GMT

This is the reason why, whereas is some overseas agreements, items damaged in transit are specifically included in the definition of Item Significantly Not As Described, there is no mention of it in the Australian agreement.

While it may or may not be specifically mentioned in the agreement, when a paypal claim is made there is an option under Significantly Not As Described for "Item Broken". It does not specify whether the item has to be broken in transit, and who could prove whether it was broken in transit or before it was sent.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

boggo58 — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:49:50 GMT

Now i know i'm wrong here but the shade wasn't made of glass was it?

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

tall_bearded — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 03:39:30 GMT

Response to post 14.

It’s all about timing.

Sales of Goods Act interpretation 101 – Handing over the item to the carrier has the same legal effect as if the item were handed to the buyer. Therefore if it is broken after it was handed over to the carrier it is the same if it had been broken after it had been handed to the buyer.

Response to post 14.

Extract from the Australia PayPal User Agreement as to what falls within the definition of significantly not as described for the purposes of the agreement.

3. Significantly Not As Described

3.1. An item is Significantly Not As Described if, in our opinion, the seller misrepresented (including by omission of information or by giving incorrect information) the details of an item in a way that affects its value or usability.

3.2. Significantly Not As Described does not include cases where you are merely disappointed with the item or where the item did not meet your expectations.

3.3. Reasons that an item may be considered Significantly Not As Described include:

the item is a completely different item to that which was represented by the seller at their point of sale, e.g. an audio book instead of a printed book, a desktop computer instead of a laptop, a picture of an item instead of the actual item; or an empty box;

the condition of the item is significantly different. For example, if the item has clearly been used multiple times rather than 'almost new' or 'still in box' or is obviously repackaged rather than 'mint';

the item is unusable and was not disclosed as such. For example, if there are missing major parts or components, will not function or turn on, or spoiled or past a relevant date. (NOTE: this applies to the item in its received state, no matter what the condition when it was sent);

the item is not authentic. For example, a fake or pirated item that was advertised as authentic or a completely different or inferior brand of a similar product; or

the item is missing a major portion or quantity. For example, if the buyer ordered 4 dozen golf balls but only received 1 dozen or 4 golf balls or the item is missing a primary component, like a blender missing a top or coffee maker missing the bottom plate.

Now please tell me where in the above it make mention of broken items.

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

the_great_she_elephant — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 04:55:24 GMT

Now please tell me where in the above it make mention of broken items.

3) the item is unusable and was not disclosed as such. For example, if there are missing major parts or components, will not function or turn on, or spoiled or past a relevant date. (NOTE: this applies to the item in its received state, no matter what the condition when it was sent);

Re: Item broken, seller refusing to refund

tall_bearded — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 05:59:45 GMT

Yes but you ignore the preamble

3.1. An item is Significantly Not As Described if, in our opinion, the seller misrepresented (including by omission of information or by giving incorrect information) the details of an item in a way that affects its value or usability.

That is the whole of the definition of SNASD of the purposes of the PayPal policy is limited to the condition in which the item was at the TIME IT WAS LISTED.