topic Who to trust? in Buying

Who to trust?

banf15 — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:24:15 GMT

After recently having lost $300 buying gold ( that turned out to be fake ) from Chinese sellers with their location shown as Australia. Lost because I handed the items over to the police as the fake hallmarks were fraudulent rather than returning them for a refund where they would be sold to some other unsuspecting buyer. I found myself in another situation today.

I had purchased 2 pieces of gold jewellery with rubies and had paid promptly within the hour. Within 24 hrs the seller from Australia emailed me to say the items were in fact gold filled rather than solid gold as they had been described. In fact I was told that eBAy policy allows sellers to use the term solid gold for items that are in fact only gold filled. The seller was afraid that my discovering the items were only gold filled would lead to negative feedback so offered to cancel the sale and refund my money.

There is also the chance that the items are in fact genuine as they were described as having genuine hallmarks. Selling items with fake hallmarks would be a crime....fraud. So perhaps the seller was not happy with the final price and concocted a story to get me to agree to the cancellation.

The end result being nobody selling jewellery on eBay can be trusted, neither eBay nor the seller ( as this most frequent seller had 100% feedback rating). I frequently read about sellers complaints about buyers on this forum and yet we the buyers appear to be the ones constantly being shafted.

Re: Who to trust?

davewil1964 — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:00:06 GMT

If you are still within the Paypal timeframe, open a dispute. When they tell you to send the items back, forward them copies of the paperwork you received from the police. And remind them that sending counterfeit items through the mail is an offence.

You should get your money back. If Paypal don't come to the party, come back here. There are some very knowledgeable members here who can advise you further.

Re: Who to trust?

fixnwear — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:04:35 GMT

banf, the only way you'll get your money back, if you haven't already accepted cancellation is to make a claim through PP.

You'll have to send the items back, fake or not - as they are not your property, nor is it up to you what seller does with it after they give your money back. And it is not against the law to post them, nor indeed to have them in your possession.

How many people did you see arrested for walking around with a fake handbag and wearing a gold filled chain that is hallmarked?

Also, it'll be onus on you to prove to PP that they are fake (if they are).

And just for your info, if it helps - most of the cheap national jewellery stores sell 9K plated garbage, all those around $100-200 per item (when normally should cost much more), all hall marked, with stock almost without exception comming from China. Buy one, get it vallued and you'll see that the value is not even half of what you paid for.

Re: Who to trust?

jerryman12a — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:30:05 GMT

You cannot legally send fake items through the mail. so because you handed them ( the gold) in to the Police and they were deemed fake you should be able to get a report from them to give to PayPal who then will take action against the seller ( for the gold)

If PayPal give you grief , tell them your next step is the Ombudsman that usually gets action. Even it it's outside the claim area I would have a go as the thread of both a Police report and the Omb might just jolt PP into action .

To be honest just because something has a Hallmark it means very little if it isn't purchased from a reputable seller and preferably through a Bricks & Mortar store .

Having said that I've bought many a piece of jewellery mainly from Thailand on ebay that is as described. You just learn to sus out the genuine sellers .

I've seen jewellery being 'stamped' right in front of me on Asian markets and passed on as genuine 😄

To buy gold , your only option is to go via the Perth Mint or visit a B & M dealer , there are some decent sellers out there on ebay if your after say a Gold Sovereign etc but for Bullion it's just not worth the risk to buy online.

Re: Who to trust?

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 05:11:15 GMT

Just having a crime number from the police should be enough for you to get your money back through Paypal as long as you opened a dispute within the 45 day period.

If it is longer than that and you funded your payment with a credit or Visa debit card you can ask your bank to do a chargeback.

Re: Who to trust?

i-once-was-bump — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 11:31:08 GMT

banf, the only way you'll get your money back, if you haven't already accepted cancellation is to make a claim through PP.

You'll have to send the items back, fake or not - as they are not your property, nor is it up to you what seller does with it after they give your money back. And it is not against the law to post them, nor indeed to have them in your possession.

How many people did you see arrested for walking around with a fake handbag and wearing a gold filled chain that is hallmarked?

Also, it'll be onus on you to prove to PP that they are fake (if they are).

And just for your info, if it helps - most of the cheap national jewellery stores sell 9K plated garbage, all those around $100-200 per item (when normally should cost much more), all hall marked, with stock almost without exception comming from China. Buy one, get it vallued and you'll see that the value is not even half of what you paid for.

I am sure you are trying to be helpful but giving such erroneous advice doesn't do your reputation any good, whatsoever.

Writing what you think does not mean that you are writing worthwhile and correct information.

Please be very careful when giving advice about the legalities of fakes and forgeries because you are not the one that will be $300 out of pocket.

Re: Who to trust?

fixnwear — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:22:55 GMT

Ha, ha, ha.... wait til I put on my bulletproof vest first!

As for trying to be helpful, I am, more so and to the point than all those advising OP how it's illegal to return fakes through the post, and how he can demand the refund without returning the items!

Rubbish!

He's of course very welcome to try doing it that way.

The only things that PO would be worried about are explosives, missiles, biological weapons and any other weapons of mass destruction.

And PP is likewise. Not only that, but they also have a habbit of demanding a concrete proof that something is a fake.

The best OP will get away with is a claim for signifantly not as described, he'll have to post it back and get a refund.

Re: Who to trust?

lyndal1838 — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:40:29 GMT

The only things that PO would be worried about are explosives, missiles, biological weapons and any other weapons of mass destruction.

If you think those are the only items that cannot be sent through the postal system, you need to do a bit of reading. The list on the AP website is a little more comprehensive than that.

Re: Who to trust?

davewil1964 — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:43:43 GMT

The OP has concrete proof the item is a fake - the police report.

I'd also advise you to check with AP - sending counterfeit items through the post is a CRIMINAL offence. As is selling them. People walking around wearing or carrying them does not affect the legality of the matter. I'm also sure the market people who get their entire inventory confiscated and are prosecuted on top of that would be interested to know it's no biggie.

And Paypal will cave when threatened with the Ombudsman anyway, especially as the OP has concrete proof.

Re: Who to trust?

fixnwear — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:08:21 GMT

dave, having a police report is not a concrete proof that something is gold filled rathered than gold.

Police would also require a proof that the item you are reporting is not what it's supposed to be, they are not experts nor authorised jevewellery valuers. Neither is the Ombudsman office.

I can't see the point of this debate as it's very easy to obtain valuation from any jeveller, much easier that getting proof that a handbag is a fake as no store is villing to put it in writing.

It comes down to item being not as described, in PO's case, he sends it back, gets a refund - end of story.

And using this garbage about being illegal to post as an excuse to hold onto someone else's property is low act, it would amount to theft if one gets full refund for it - as that information is not correct.

Oh, and linda, I forgot animal and human remains in my prhibited list(or even live ones).

I'll leave you to it good people, I'm off to have another great day!

Re: Who to trust?

***super_nova*** — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:24:58 GMT

And using this garbage about being illegal to post as an excuse to hold onto someone else's property is low act, it would amount to theft if one gets full refund for it - as that information is not correct.

the OP is not holding onto anybody's property, they handed it over to the police. The item is now evidence of the seller committing fraud and as such will not very likely be given back. Just as they would not be getting back item that was stolen.

Counterfeit items should not be returned to the seller, they supposed to be destroyed, and proof provided. And actually, yes there is a clause that such items are not allowed to be posted.

So you would want the counterfeit items to be given back to the seller so they can defraud somebody else? ?:|

Re: Who to trust?

2106greencat — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 01:03:32 GMT

I would imagine that police would not have done a report without the OP providing supporting evidence that fraud has been committe

Nova - no need to imagine - you are 100% correct. AFP do not have time to pussy about with little claims of 'fraud or fake' that have not been legally established already.

Re: Who to trust?

jerryman12a — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 03:50:46 GMT

"And using this garbage about being illegal to post as an excuse to hold onto someone else's property is low act, it would amount to theft if one gets full refund for it - as that information is not correct."

If you took the time to read member's post properly you should have seen that in the OP's case the item is already with the Police. I doubt he could get it back to get a jewelers report on the item , which may have already been done anyway seeing there appears to be no doubt on the OP's behalf that the item is counterfeit . No need for a Jeweler to get involved if the gold flakes off a bit of lead .

You may also need to familiarize yourself with the fraudulent use of AP postal system if you think it's ok to post Counterfeit products via mail , in this case I'm sure the Seller would love his piece of fake gold back so he can rip off another person , oh but you forgot the OP actually hasn't got the item anymore anyway.

By your token everyone who has been ripped off by purchasing illegal merchandise should sent the item/s back ?

You'll find the advise given by PayPal will be to destroy the item as it cannot be legally posted through the postal system.

But all that wouldn't matter to you as you obviously support those Sellers out to rip of buyers , or perhaps you have similar interest your trying to protect.

Re: Who to trust?

2106greencat — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:32:28 GMT

I looked and looked and then I finally clicked 'feedback' !

WOW - mind you they are not doing themselves any favours - one look at horrific pic should be enuf to send anyone running - you can almost see the 'edge' on the gold foil :^O

Re: Who to trust?

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 00:52:03 GMT

Lol, they should have used spray paint instead of a brush, I am sure you can see the brush strikes, it also looks as if they didn't wait to let the paint dry before they took the photo ;-).

Their other item for sale is even more revolting if at least more realistically priced although looking at the postage charge, $20, it almost would have to be made of gold or some even heavier metal to justify the cost :^O

That is the funniest, and most telling, feedback i have seen...............ever!

Re: Who to trust?

rabbitearbandicoot — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 02:50:45 GMT

Yes, ALL of their buyers are now NARU. The words FEEDBACK MANIPULATION scream out at me. They are part of the ring of over 180 Buyers and Sellers that have been active for over 18 months. The OP bought from 3 of their sellers. Every time a seller gets banned they create another new one. There are 6 currently listing their 'solid gold' items. And, the most surprising thing is .... they keep finding people willing to pay. Have a look at that guys sold items....

Re: Who to trust?

Anonymous — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 03:27:14 GMT

You can probably trust nobody, my interest is AUSTRALIAN PRE DECIMAL COINS..

Seems almost all lots here are from a deceased estate, every body who dies must have a massive stack of these coins.

In the last week I have seen 2 bulk coin items, both with a 1930 penny clearly visable, (value 10,000 to 1mil) The one at the moment is from a bloke who trades in coins (judging by his other items). The possibility of him missing the Holy grail of coin coin collecting is non existant. Nobody will have a 1930 penny in their lot (i would london to brick on that it is a dud).

Re: Who to trust?

rabbitearbandicoot — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 04:09:15 GMT

There's one born every minute - poor suckers! $521 for a piece of polished brass. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when this stuff arrives..... still, they'll probably be happy with their 'OUTSTANDING MEN'S 18CT SOLID GOLD CHAIN LINK POSH NECKLACE' - if they get it at all.

Re: Who to trust?

***super_nova*** — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 05:45:57 GMT

There's one born every minute - poor suckers! $521 for a piece of polished brass. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when this stuff arrives..... still, they'll probably be happy with their 'OUTSTANDING MEN'S 18CT SOLID GOLD CHAIN LINK POSH NECKLACE' - if they get it at all.

most likely it is one of their soon to be NARU friends; but still, I think the seller needs to be reported by several people