topic SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller? in Buying

SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:21:00 GMT

i have had a nightmare with a seller who after describing a $500 turntable as mint condition and perfect shipped me a heavily used and dirty item. I took a video of the missing parts, damaged knobs and dirt and the seller admitted it was like that when it was shipped. the item didnt even match the auction photos.

they offered me a full refund which would have cost me $200 in return shipping or a partial refund. after taking the unit to a repairer and being quoted $240 to bring the unit back to mint condition, i offered to split the cost with the seller. they offered $70. i argued this wasn't enough and i stated if we couldn't work out a mutually agreeable position i would have to cut my losses leave negative feedback - which i did in the end as the seller basically lied about the item. i didnt want to accept a low offer of hush money once it became clear they where being dishonest.

they have claimed extortion and had the feedback removed even through it was fair. after emailing ebay to ask why the feedback was removed. they are accusing me of engaging in improper behaviour

"I assure you that this warning doesn't affect your account at the moment, however we respectfully request you refrain from this activity in the future."

it appears its a case of being guilty while proven innocent and it appears you cant even discuss your right to leave feedback with a seller who offered you money in the first place as it leave you open to an extortion claim?

the feedback was removed in a matter of hours there is no way the 30 or so emails between the seller and i have been reviewed. so im stuck with a $240 repair bill and a warning from ebay.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:25:43 GMT

Have you actually proceeded through an INAD case?

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:32:46 GMT

no because i thought it would have resulted in me having to return the item at around $200 cost to me. the refund would have been $600. this was laid out in our countless emails. i can believe you can even discuss feedback without leaving yourself open to a claim from a dishonest seller.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:34:26 GMT

.... but its fine for the seller to offer me money to be "happy"

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

putney32 — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:38:37 GMT

.... but its fine for the seller to offer me money to be "happy"

unfortunately yes, that is true, because, a seller can ONLY leave a buyer a positive feedback, no seller is allowed to leave a negative, whereas a Buyer has the options of positive / neutral or negative, and comments about 'no alternative but to leave a neg' can / and are / seen by eBay as f'back extortion.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:43:38 GMT

So I guess it cost 500, 240 to repair and alternately 200 to return to get a 500 refund.

Have you spoken with PayPal, on occasions they will see in favour of buyer should an item be too costly to return. I suggest calling them providing you are still in the time frame to open a case.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:51:58 GMT

well thats BS. well been a ebay user for 11 years and (i just checked) never left negative feedback against a buyer or have had negative feedback against me.

its crazy.

regardless the item didnt match the auction description by a long stretch and that counts for nothing now. a clear scammer walks.

awesome.

so the lesson here is dont ever discuss feedback with the seller even if they do.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

***super_nova*** — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 22:20:26 GMT

Call ebay or use the live chat; telling seller that unless they provide you with what you paid for is not FB extortion. FB extortion is when you ask for something extra. Expecting the seller to pay for repairs needed to bring the item into condition that it supposed to be to start with should not be classified as extortion. Ask them to re-instate the FB

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

***super_nova*** — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 22:23:16 GMT

Why would returning it cost $200? Did you buy it from O/S?

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

***super_nova*** — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 22:25:37 GMT

Found it; the definition for FB extortion:

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 18 Apr 2013 23:49:52 GMT

Was the turntable $500 including the delivery charge to you?

Are you certain return would cost $200?

When buying anything with Paypal buyer protection you always have to keep in mind the cost of return if it is not as described I am afraid.

You have already paid $500 and if you get it fixed it will have cost you $740, $630 if you accepted their offer, is it worth that, if it isn't the alternative is to go through Paypal and end up with $300 after paying the return delivery.

Now you know that you should never mention feedback in a dispute and you never mention a paypal dispute in feedback.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:11:04 GMT

yeah from the UK it weighs 13kg

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:14:08 GMT

a lesson learned.

i did call paypal and they said you can open a dispute. if the cost of return is extremely high a quote from auspost was $325 (shipped here the item cost $620 all up). they may negotiate a partial refund on my behalf and get to keep the unit.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 07:15:52 GMT

with that definition they pretty much have me bang to rights - school boy error. even if i only asked for a more realistic spilt on the repair costs.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

1sweetap6v8 — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 15:06:12 GMT

OH forgot to mention ebay claim that they do not remove or reinstall feedback lightly. LOL they removed it 3 times and reinstalled it twice in this case in 36 hrs. He rang had it removed I rang had it reinstated he rang back had it removed i rang had it reinstated he rang had it removed. all in 36 hrs and in the end I got nothin no feedback no item forced to pay . What an absolute joke.

Thats feedback 6 times in less than 2 days and they say they dont do it lightly LOL what a joke and in the end all they had was I said you have left me no alternative but to leave neg feedback and I did .

And like I told ebay THAT is not a THREAT it is informing the seller of my intentions. A threat is when you say IF you dont do so and so I will leave neg feedback. There is a stark difference that not even these dumb sellers could argue.

Do yourself a favour ring Consumer affairs tomorrow and the onbudsman and tell them how discusted you are with ebay and the seller that it was a blatant scam and your not happy and your not going away until justice is done. Do Not Trust Rip off bay. They have already ripped you off they wont want to give your money back without a fight.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

shepherdsrule — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 20:57:37 GMT

There is a stark difference that not even these dumb sellers could argue.

Wow, you really aren't looking to make any friends huh?

I have read all replies and none of the (2) sellers who replied have said anything dumb. They gave advice and it wasn't till you came along that it turned nasty.

FB removal is not something seller's or buyer's can be blamed for - it is eBay's call.

In the OP case if the negative was factual without mentioning paypal, disputes, or using profanity then it would not have been removed. Simple

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

nuperspective — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 22:23:36 GMT

im still thinking of raising a SNAD claim via paypal as i think i have a really strong case. worst case they request the item is return surely i can just refuse and close the claim, that leaves me in the exact same position. if they grant a partial refund and i keep the unit its a partial win and it refunds something.

anybody have any experience with SNAD's?

here the original listing:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261182882120?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2338wt_1398

it came with a missing foot, bent ground cable clip, damaged on off button, worn pitch cap, LEDs needing to be replaced, thick smoke residue under the buttons and feet and they "changed" the power wire when i queried why it didnt match the one in the photo.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

putney32 — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 22:29:43 GMT

im still thinking of raising a SNAD claim via paypal as i think i have a really strong case. worst case they request the item is return surely i can just refuse and close the claim, that leaves me in the exact same position. if they grant a partial refund and i keep the unit its a partial win and it refunds something.

anybody have any experience with SNAD's?

paypal will not grant a partial refund, but you may be able to argue (over the phone) that return is too expensive. worth a try.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

thecatspjs — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 22:36:15 GMT

Paypal will most certainly grant a partial refund, if that is what is sought when dispute is first opened, and basis of seeking partial refund - quote for repairs and quote for prohibitive return shipping is mentioned in initial dispute and then uploaded if seller refuses to refund and it is escalated to a claim.

Re: SNAD - negative feedback removed - cant even discuss feedback with seller?

thecatspjs — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 22:37:46 GMT

Sorry, should have posted - paypal will most certainly give consideration to granting a partial refund...