topic Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do? in Buying

Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

valken08 — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 06:58:12 GMT

We bought tickets from e-bay after I checked seller's feedback etc, all fine. Got to gate and they were invalid, went to box office and ticketek said they'd been cancelled and re-issued. Apparently people sell tickets on ebay then call ticketek to say they've been lost, new tickets issued, old ones invalid. Got in touch with seller on return who said they were genuine ticketek screwed up, no offer to help, nothing. The tickets were pictured but the seat numbers and row had been obscured so can't see that ticketek would cancel them without someone telling them too. Is there anything we can do about this, don't buyers have right to expect seller to look into matter? Oh well learned my lesson won't buy tickets from ebay ever again.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 07:44:09 GMT

Wow valken, that's a rather expensive lesson to learn. I'd be reporting them to the internet fraud and scams squad;

http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/cybercrime/internet-fraud-and-scams.aspx

You didn't deserve that and nor should anyone else be subjected to it from the same person again. Be responsible and report it.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

*sparklz* — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 08:04:03 GMT

Did you pay with paypal and fund the payment with a credit or debit card?

Go to paypal if it is not past the 45 days since payment and open a dispute for item not as described or if it is past the 45 days since payment date go to your bank and do a chargeback to get your money back.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 08:22:32 GMT

Good call Sparklz.
They were purchased on the 30th of May so still clear for the 45 days if sensible enough to use PayPal for the transaction at least.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

belindabargainhunter — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 09:42:03 GMT

I think the seller should be responsable for this. I would like to see everone stop buying tickets on ebay to stop this whole buissness. I think if the people just wanting to sell ticket for profit weren't buying more people would have a chance in getting tickets at sale.

(Oh and the differnce between concert tickets and other sales on ebay is that tickets are non transferable and bought knowing you are not ment to resell for more than the ticket price value )

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

lyndal1838 — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:43:56 GMT

Belinda, there is nothing stopping sellers making a profit on the sale of event tickets.

Those rules only apply to selected venues and events and are not meant to cover every type of ticket sold on ebay.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

colkym — Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:43:07 GMT

Wow that was an expensive lesson to learn, I do hope you have paid by paypal.

Tickets can certainly be sold on ebay, only selected venues are prohibited as Lyndal says.

Scalpers are alive and well and making heaps of money, thats true, but tickets are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

While we on the subject- I hear Allphones Arena in Sydney is cancelling tickets that they see listed on ebay, something to consider if you are buying tickets with the seat number displayed 😞 What a nasty shock for the buyer when they get to the concert and cant get in 😞

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

wishuponastarcelebrationsandgifts — Wed, 10 Jul 2013 23:58:38 GMT

I wouldn't buy any tickets from anyone I didn't know personally. Even if the tickets are valid, if the event is cancelled the funds will be refunded to the original ticket holder. You then have to rely on their honesty to get your money back.

As part of Ticketek's terms of sale Entry may be refused if tickets are damaged or defaced in any way or are not purchased from Ticketek or other authorised points of sale. If you do decide to buy any tickets online, it is prudent to check that the ticket seller does not have similar terms.

Some good advice has already been given regarding lodging a Paypal claim/credit card chargeback. I hope you recoup your funds.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 11 Jul 2013 10:10:29 GMT

Email the seller saying they have 48 hours to refund your money or you will be reporting them to the on-line auction fraud report site run by the police. If you paid with Paypal open a dispute but there are restrictions on claims for tickets so you may be out of luck. If you funded your Paypal payment with a credit card then you could try your card provider re a chargeback. If you paid by bank deposit then your only chance is them refunding to stop you going to the police.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

kymme22 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 09:05:15 GMT

@colkym wrote:
@colkym wrote:
Wow that was an expensive lesson to learn, I do hope you have paid by paypal.

A little known fact that eBay and PayPal do not publicise and in my view is very deceptive is that you have NO buyer protection for event tickets, gift certificates and other items which they term 'intangibles'.

I was livid when I found this out from PayPal customer service, as I have always assumed I had some measure of safety when purchasing via eBay but be warned - this is NOT the case.

My advice when purchasing tickets etc is always use your credit card via PayPal so you can instigate a charge back through the credit card provider.

Check out the listing pages for tickets and you will notice that under "Payments' at the top of the listing the blue box giving information about PayPal buyer protection is missing - same for gift vouchers. This is the ONLY indication you have that you
are vulnerable to scammers with no buyer protection!

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

davewil1964 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:23:31 GMT

It is not little known to those who come to the boards. Or for those who actually read the T&Cs of Paypal, which they tick the box to say they have read, when they sign up.

My advice when purchasing tickets online is to sign up to the (not very many) authorised ticket sellers and that way you will be able to pre-purchase legitimate tickets.

I would never buy concert tickets here. There are a lot of things that don't lend themselves to purchasing on eBay.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

lyndal1838 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:51:50 GMT

@kymme22 wrote:

Check out the listing pages for tickets and you will notice that under "Payments' at the top of the listing the blue box giving information about PayPal buyer protection is missing - same for gift vouchers. This is the ONLY indication you have that you
are vulnerable to scammers with no buyer protection!

That is not correct at all.

If you read the paypal Terms and Condtions when you joined you would have seen a list of items that are not covered.

At any time you can go to the paypal site and look up the items that are not covered.

And just so there is no mistake...paypal deliberately leaves the buyer protection notice off the listing pages.

Why would you get upset at something that is clearly documented, not hidden as you seem to think.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

kymme22 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:04:13 GMT

I beg to differ! You show me where Event tickets and Gift Certificates are listed as exclusions... I certainly cannot find it. The below is from the PayPal Buyer Protection information in eBay help:

PayPal Buyer Protection Policy - exceptions

The following categories are NOT covered by PayPal Buyer Protection:
Cars
Intangibles (such as licences or digitally delivered goods)
Airline Tickets
Services
Real Estate
Businesses for Sale
Items that do not comply with PayPal’s or eBay’s policies

PayPal Seller Protection Policy - exceptions

The following categories are NOT covered by PayPal Seller Protection:
eBay items purchased through separate PayPal payments but combined as a single shipment
Multiple payments for a single eBay transaction
Where information requested by PayPal such as proof of shipment is not provided within a reasonable time
Intangible items such as licenses or digital content
Vehicles (including boats and planes)
Services
Hand delivered items
Items that the buyer claims are significantly not as described
Items or accounts that do not comply with PayPal’s policies

The ONLY way you find this out is after you have an issue and even then the PayPal customer service people inform you that they class event tickets and gift certificates as 'intangibles'.

It is extremely deceptive and I guarantee you 99% of buyers are totally unaware there is no cover... Just read the posts here advising the buyer to make a claim.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

kymme22 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:19:09 GMT

As for your comment that I should read the T & C's when I 'joined, can I point out that I have been a member of eBay considerably longer than you .... and am one of PayPal's oldest customers as well.

A company that has access to your banking and credit card information and is purportedly attempting, in PayPal's case to become an actual financial institution has an obligation to be upfront and totally transparent .. I should NOT have to comb through pages of fine print and legalese before every purchase.

It should be HIGHLIGHTED on categories that are excluded that there is no buyer protection.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

cq_tech — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:17:20 GMT

IMO, there is certainly nothing 'intangible' about a physically printed concert ticket nor a pre-paid gift card, and as it is not specifically mentioned that these items are classified by ebay as intangible products, if Paypal rejected a claim on those specific grounds, I strongly suspect that the Ombudsman would force Paypal to overturn their rejection and make a discretionary refund for the full amount in question.

Unfortunately your time for lodging a Paypal claim has long expired but I agree with the posters above who recommend that you lodge a complaint with the Qld Police on-line fraud squad if he fails to respond to a warning email that he has 48 hours to reimburse you before you take further irrevocable legal action.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

kymme22 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:49:48 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
IMO, there is certainly nothing 'intangible' about a physically printed concert ticket nor a pre-paid gift card, and as it is not specifically mentioned that these items are classified by ebay as intangible products, if Paypal rejected a claim on those specific grounds, I strongly suspect that the Ombudsman would force Paypal to overturn their rejection and make a discretionary refund for the full amount in question.

I agree, totally and I would most definitely be in touch with the ACCC if they refused a claim. I could have so easily been in the same shoes as the OP as I have bought loads of tickets and have purchased many gift certificates over the years and had no idea I was not covered.

I even asked to speak to a PayPal supervisor to confirm this as it seemed so unlikely - and was told that event tickets are definitely not covered and are indeed classed as 'intangible' items.

I came across this post whilst looking (on google) for something else, so although regulars of the forum may not consider it a little known fact because it has been discussed on this board ..... most eBayers are not forum frequenters and in fact should not have to look here (where information is often unqualified) to find out what they are covered for - eBay and PayPal should be upfront.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

lyndal1838 — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:27:39 GMT

@kymme22 wrote:
As for your comment that I should read the T & C's when I 'joined, can I point out that I have been a member of eBay considerably longer than you .... and am one of PayPal's oldest customers as well.

It should be HIGHLIGHTED on categories that are excluded that there is no buyer protection.

What has being a member of ebay got to do with it?

I was using paypal long before it was called paypal and aquired by ebay. I am a paypal preferred customer with a special "hot line" phone number.

But I still read the T & Cs that applied to ebay transactions when I joined ebay.

It is quite easy to read the User Agreement and find the section on what items are covered or not covered.....the paragrah is called Elegibility.

And it is highlighted.....you have said yourself that there was no mention of paypal protection on the listing.

If you bother to read the paragraph, there is mention that SOME digital items may be covered if they have been delivered as a hardcopy via paper or disc. You could try that section if you have proof that you received something other than a digital delivery.

As for gift cards etc....how could paypal know that they were fully loaded or whether they were already used. Of course they have to protect themselves. Can you imagine how much money they might have to fork out if a scammer sold several $100 gift cards that were already used. How could they prove that the buyer did not use the cards then claim Not As Described.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

kymme22 — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 05:44:51 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
What has being a member of ebay got to do with it?
I was using paypal long before it was called paypal and aquired by ebay. I am a paypal preferred customer with a special "hot line" phone number.
But I still read the T & Cs that applied to ebay transactions when I joined ebay.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

The relevance is that I joined eBay over a decade ago and the T & C's have probably changed 100's of times in that period - the comment has no relevance at all to the subject at hand. And for the record ditto with PayPal - but again not relevant.

Let me try and make this very clear because unlike you I don't want to have to read through reams of T&C's before every purchase.

It is NOT highlighed - quite the opposite - Highlighting means drawing attention to something but in this case information is discretely REMOVED.
NO guidance or warning has been added for buyers on items in affected categories - and FYI I only noticed this AFTER being informed by PayPal that tickets/gift cards are not covered.
ALL tickets and gift vouchers are excluded according to PayPal - regardless of being 'digital' or hard copy - and are DELIBERATELY not mentioned in the exclusions presumably because it is an area of huge profitibilty for eBay - even listing fees are not free with these categories (cha-ching)
Gift vouchers are JUST like any other product and should warrant the same level of protection - your argument is quite inane. If I buy a laptop that is advertised as having 500 gb of memory that arrives and has 250 gb I could have opened it and removed the extra 250gb there too.
The PROTECTION that you PAY FOR when using PayPal as a seller is so buyers can feel assured of being able to retreive funds if ANY product arrives and is NOT as described.
Lastly you seem to be under the mistaken impression that PayPal 'fork out funds' . They may in some rare instances, but in the vast majority of instances the funds are RETRIEVED FROM A BOGUS SELLER. The whole premise of using PayPal is built around the platform of protection - as a buyer or a seller.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 06:27:35 GMT

There is no need to read through the T & Cs before every purchase. I read the ebay related Agreement when I joined ebay and ever since then I have received email notification of any changes made.

It is very easy to keep up to date with the changes.....just read your emails.

As for your arguement that all tickets and gift vouchers are excluded regardless of digital delivery or hard copy...have a look at the written T & Cs. SOME hard copy items may be covered...and it is definitely mentioned in the Exclusions.

Re: Tickets refused at gate, seller says tough ticketek screwed up what to do?

patchoo78 — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:24:17 GMT

that is advertised as having 500 gb of memory that arrives and has 250 gb I could have opened it and removed the extra 250gb

I"d like to see you try.. I think you're confusing Memory (RAM) for Hard Drive space, as you can't actually buy laptops with 500gb of RAM.

Furthermore, you can't just "remove the extra 250gb" of hard drive space as the hard drive is in one piece and if you remove that your laptop won't work.

Aside of that, it's not exactly easy for someone who probably doesn't know what they're doing (I'm assuming you don't based on your confusion of RAM and Hard Drive space) to pull apart a lap top and remove the RAM; they're not exaclty designed for users to upgrade themselves