topic Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock in Buying

Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

shadspup — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 23:33:01 GMT

Won an auction for an in-car camera on 22 August, paid via Paypal the next day and received positive feedback from the seller. Yesterday 28 August, I get a message from the seller wanting to refund the money paid, plus an additional amount "for delay". Checked eBay and find that the same seller has the same item listed at a BIN price of $999.00 with 2 sold and 5 available. I wrote back and said that I want the item, not a refund. He writes back with the following message:

We are not mean that we won't sell this item to you.
What you saw on the ebay is still have product in stock, that because we are out of stock yet, so we raise the price to $999.When we get the products we will recover the price.But since we don't know how long will it take,and we can't ensure the exact time when we get it. So we suggest refund.

I thought they had to have the item to sell if they were putting the item to auction.

The item has now been increased to BIN $9,999, still listed for 26 days, and still claiming to have 5 in stock. What is going on here???

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 00:05:21 GMT

I don't know the ins and outs, but I've seen this done before, it's got something to do with them losing the sales history of the item I think. So rather than end the listing, they put on a HUGE price that no one would pay. (One item I saw had $4,000 on it, when competitors were selling the same thing for under $150)

In your case, there was more than likely an inventory control issue, and when they went to pack your item realized there were none in stock. It happens. (For example, the computer program doesn't know if an employee has swiped something from the warehouse,, and if a large seller, might only know when they do a stocktake or can't fill an order)

I think it's good that the seller has voluntarily refunded you and given you a bonus for wasting your time, it seems to me he is trying to do the right thing by you and not string you along indefinitely waiting for new stock to arrive.

My advice, be kind to him and either wait until the item's price drops back down indicating he has more in stock, or find another one to buy in the meantime.

Either way, you are not going to get this particular camera at this time.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

shadspup — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 00:23:45 GMT

I agree that this is probably what has happened.

However, after doing a search on the 'net, I have found the same item available at other websites within the country from which this item is originating. Admittedly, they are a lot more expensive than the price I paid. I feel this seller should honour his side of the contract and obtain one from from another seller in his country of origin. The way I see it, he put the item up for auction and didn't get the price he wanted so is now pleading "out of stock". Once any dispute is settled (refund, whatever), the item miraculously appears back on the seller's site again (I've had this happen to me before).

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 00:49:19 GMT

Yes, he should source the item and supply it to you, and if you were to pursue legal avenues this could quite likely be the ruling.

Regardless of what he "should" do, he has made it pretty clear that he is not going to without some "warm encouragement".

It doesn't matter "how you see it" it really only matters what you can prove. Can you prove your allegations?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be a bit miffed too, but that doesn't change anything. He doesn't want to sell it to you and he has no intention of sending it to you.

He has given you a refund plus a bonus, that's more than what PayPal would have directed him to do.

He has been honest, he could have said "it's on the way" and tried to string you out past the 45 days in which you have to raise a claim.

Also, think very carefully before you leave feedback so that you do not end up looking bad. If you leave something like "seller refused to honour sale, his reply may well be,, "item out of stock, refund and bonus given immediately".

You've got 80 characters including spaces and punctuation, use it wisely, it must be factual, but try and interpret any reply he may make to counter it.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

thecatspjs — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 01:04:07 GMT

Report the listing. Report the seller.

As a buyer and a seller, I have no sympathy for sellers that retain out-of-stock listings to preserve their best match ranking - I understand from time to time sellers may mistakenly over-sell items that they do not have, or can not find, that is a different issue all together.

No stock and no stock coming in immediate future to honor a sale = end listing IMO.

I understand that it is difficult to retain best match position, but no-one should run listings for items they do not have and are not likely to have for some time - not good for building confidence in our marketplace.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 01:26:28 GMT

Why would you report the listing that's still there?

How can you prove that he has none in stock at that price?

He may well have been able to get more in emergency stock for a higher price so that he doesn't have to end the listing.

I'm not condoning what he has done/is doing to this buyer, but I think it's petty to penalize the seller without proof that he has none in stock.

I have a B&M shop. I ran out of one line due to a couple of reasons, I have now sourced a short term supply at a higher than normal price because it made good business sense to me to have such a popular item available even though I have made it available for sale at a higher price.

I also use the increase price strategy as well when something is running low rather than have it run out and remove it from sale. It is basic economic principles and strategic business practise.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

digital*ghost — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 01:45:35 GMT

@crikey*mate wrote:
Why would you report the listing that's still there?

How can you prove that he has none in stock at that price?

It depends on the item and the listing - the seller may be claiming no stock, but a good way to tell is to look at the purchase history (if any) of the item as that will show how many have sold previously, and for what price. If the seller seems to have honoured those sales (a quick look at FB can help verify that), it can be assessed fairly easily if it is a matter of no stock or deciding to change the price.

Considering the seller raised it to $999 then $9999, and that he has admitted to being out of stock, I would say it's a fair bet he is out of stock, and the listing should be ended. It is actually a breach of policy to list an item (or keep a listing active) when you can't supply it - it's even a breach of policy to list a higher quantity available than you can supply. I don't like reporting listings, but this is becoming a more and more common buyer complaint.

I've found myself in a similar situation - low stock numbers on an item, awaiting new stock to arrive and being tempted to keep the listing active - it sucks, but I have to end the listing, or let the last one sell and relist when the stock does arrive (sometimes it's been the next day, sometimes a couple of weeks later), and I do it not to abide by policies, as such, but because I never want to have to tell a buyer I can't supply the item they bought. 😉

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:14:11 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
@crikey*mate wrote:
Why would you report the listing that's still there?

How can you prove that he has none in stock at that price?

It depends on the item and the listing - the seller may be claiming no stock, but a good way to tell is to look at the purchase history (if any) of the item as that will show how many have sold previously, and for what price. If the seller seems to have honoured those sales (a quick look at FB can help verify that), it can be assessed fairly easily if it is a matter of no stock or deciding to change the price.

Considering the seller raised it to $999 then $9999, and that he has admitted to being out of stock, yesterday he admitted to being out of stock, he may have sourced some overnight at a high price to tide him over until his regular stock arrives - I'm guessing he doesn't actually make these cameras, so is not limited by the speed in which he can make one or obtain parts to do so, I would say it's a fair bet he is out of stock I would too, but is a fair bet reason enough to tarnish someone's business reputation? , and the listing should be ended As I said, he may have gotten more stock - the OP managed to find more stock in the same region, so maybe on his way to work this morning he bought a few at a much higher price than his regular supply cost just so he didn't have to end the listing early and adjusted his prices accordingly.. It is actually a breach of policy to list an item (or keep a listing active) when you can't supply it we don't know that he can't supply these items, all we know is that he couldn't/wouldn't supply the item for a listing that has already ended - heck maybe he didn't even realize it had been relisted if he relists in bulk and may not have even been aware that listing was active (I've done that - it's even a breach of policy to list a higher quantity available than you can supply. According to the OP, there are plenty available, we have no idea how many he can supply at the current listed price, all that we know is that he won't supply the item at the previous listed price. I don't like reporting listings, but this is becoming a more and more common buyer complaint. Quite possibly because there are now more large volume sellers who have entered the market. I've done many stocktakes in my time, and it is rare that the expected inventory list matches the actual inventory list. Whether it be through poor inventory management, theft, system failure, lack of staff training or just an error someone in the process.

I've found myself in a similar situation - low stock numbers on an item, awaiting new stock to arrive and being tempted to keep the listing active - it sucks, but I have to end the listing, or let the last one sell and relist when the stock does arrive (sometimes it's been the next day, sometimes a couple of weeks later), and I do it not to abide by policies, as such, but because I never want to have to tell a buyer I can't supply the item they bought. 😉

Digi, I think the seller should honour the sale, please don't think I condone what he has done. It does appear that his business practises are somewhat creative, but on the whole, he doesn't appear to be one of the true bad guys. He fessed up, refunded immediately(ish) - i'e once he was aware of the problem or had a solution AND gave a bonus.

To me it makes good business sense to supply the item if possible in order to benefit from return business. Maybe he couldn't source the item cheaply enough to honour that transaction and so decided to minimize his losses and lose the customer.

I just think that reporting his current listings when we don't know if he does have new stock is just spiteful. The buyer has their money back, plus a bonus and they can still reflect their transaction experience via feedback. Short of going to court, when does the punishment end?

Out of curiosity, if a report was made, would eBay investigate (if so, how?) or would they just remove the listing based on heresay?

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

thecatspjs — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:24:07 GMT

Come on crikey do you really think that reporting a listing that may be, or is, in breach of ebay policy is spiteful ??

LMAO

It is not heresay - the seller has messaged the buyer to say they have no more stock - ebay have access to this information that has been provided by the seller to the buyer.

This sellers actions = unhappy buyers

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

digital*ghost — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:40:12 GMT

crikey, with all due respect, I don't think the fact the seller did ok, or could have done worse, is reason enough to let an issue go - they could have done better, too, I know quite a few sellers who will purchase from a competitor and have the item sent to their buyer to avoid them being disappointed. There is a reason eBay don't gives sellers a facility to mark items as out of stock, and every time this happens (intentionally or not), it's another "bad thing" about eBay.

The seller has said that they will readjust the price when they get new stock, so that - along with all the other evidence - is a pretty good indicator that the seller does not have the item to supply at any price right now, and they may have made a mistake at first, but assuming they only realised after this buyer purchased, they chose to keep the listing active by putting an unrealistic price on it.

Don't get me wrong, I have specifically omitted any advice re: reporting the listing, but I dislike the practice of keeping out-of-stock listings active to keep BM rankings, and the only reason it keeps happening (intentionally) is because there are no consequences that make sellers stop it.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

thecatspjs — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:05:46 GMT

If the seller is a Australian business I would think advertising goods that the seller knows they do not have and are not likely to have for some time might be in breach of consumer law ??

If a business knowingly do not have stock but still have a live listing and goods are paid for, as a business they might potentially be fined - even if they refunded the payment immediately.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

lyndal1838 — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:13:11 GMT

The seller is in China.....enough said. Save your energy for reporting a seller where you might get some action.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:20:23 GMT

it's ok digi,, learning that it affects Best Match placement is something new I have learned, I didn't realize it was any more than losing the sales hostory of an item which seems to be important on here.

If it's purely for search manipulation, I now understand why it's wrong, I didn't realize how this practise impacted that.

See, to me though, it is two seperate issues. The buyer's transaction being one, and the subsequent listing being the second.

I think what the seller is alleged to have done in the first issue is wrong,, and for that he should be penalized. I agree - report him for that (can you?) but he has rectified the situation to a greater capacity to what PayPal would have financially speaking had he sent something else resulting in an SNAD, or not sent it at all resulting in an INR

As for issue 2 - how do we know the seller does not have more stock? Even the buyer said they could find more stock, so perhaps the seller has done that (admittedly I doubt it). His usual supplier might only charge him $20 per unit,, hence the lower price, whereas he may well have sourced a short term emergency stock and had to pay a significantly higher price for it, hence the increased prices. Once their regular supplier can send them stock at their regular price, then prices will return to "normal".

Petrol stations and butcher shops are two outlets that I can think of that do this on a regular basis.

So to me, because it is two different issues, it does seem spiteful to now report the seller based on assumption. Maybe the buyer could message him and ask him if he does have any in stock at that price (or someone else could, as a prospective customer I guess), then if he admits he doesn't, there is proof, As it is, there is none, and any reporting is based on assumption and only being initiated out of spite cos the buyer is miffed they didn't get the bargain they are entitled to.

Sure, he has admitted he didn't have stock - => yesterday (?), but how can we be sure at this point that he hasn't sourced more stock over night at a much higher price and so has structured his listing accordingly.

I can usually make cherry ripe ice cream for $2.67 a litre in the quantities that I produce, however yesterday I paid $11.40 per litre for a reasonably similar quality because I had to purchase it from a competitor simply because I did need to honour some of my contracted orders and I didn't want to have none on hand for the 3 days it will take me to reproduce.

In my case - why did I run out? A motor burned out on one of my freezers and I couldn't fit all of the stock into the back up freezer, so some of it is lost. Can I fill the orders I currently have? Yes, at a significant loss, fortunately for me, only a few held me to their order, and all but one took a reduced amount to get them through until I could get the freezer operational again and stock levels back up.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:32:16 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
Come on crikey do you really think that reporting a listing that may be, or is, in breach of ebay policy is spiteful ??

In this instance, what is the motivation for doing so? Would the buyer normally have done this, or are they now just doing so to "punish" the seller?

LMAO

*criez*

Notice I only cried - if you had have pointed and laffed as well - I woulda had a full on melt down!

It is not heresay - the seller has messaged the buyer to say they have no more stock YESTERDAY - ebay have access to this information that has been provided by the seller to the buyer.

This sellers actions = unhappy buyers

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:39:42 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
If the seller is a Australian business I would think advertising goods that the seller knows they do not have and are not likely to have for some time might be in breach of consumer law ??

If a business knowingly do not have stock but still have a live listing and goods are paid for, as a business they might potentially be fined - even if they refunded the payment immediately.

Going by this quote from post 3 "However, after doing a search on the 'net, I have found the same item available at other websites within the country from which this item is originating."

I'm thinking it is an overseas purchase.

But yes, <in writing that Cats can't see> You are right AGAIN!!!!!! (I wish she would stop doin' that FGS!!!!!</in writing that Cats can't see> Australian CL does say that an advertised product must be available in reasonable quantities. (There's ifs/ands or buts applicable there, but that's the basic principle) However I don't know what penalties are applied.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

thecatspjs — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:48:10 GMT

Passes tissue to fish ....

My motivation to advise report or report listing = Responsible community member trading behavior to improve our marketplace

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:54:34 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
Passes tissue to fish ....

My motivation to advise report or report listing = Responsible community member trading behavior to improve our marketplace

*cheeky grin*

but thanks for the tissue....

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

digital*ghost — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:25:33 GMT

@crikey*mate wrote:
it's ok digi,, learning that it affects Best Match placement is something new I have learned, I didn't realize it was any more than losing the sales hostory of an item which seems to be important on here.

If it's purely for search manipulation, I now understand why it's wrong, I didn't realize how this practise impacted that.

That, along with the fact that it's now a common buyer complaint, means that it's one of the things some sellers do on purpose that has a negative impact on all members in one form or another - hence my dislike of the practice. It also means when a genuine oversight happens, buyers could already be fed up with being told they can't have the item they bought and less forgiving.

Many don't even bother to raise the price to an unrealistic amount etc, they just keep all their listings going at normal price (sometimes for months) and refund anyone who buys.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

shadspup — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:00:13 GMT

Let's get this straight. The seller is in China. There are other cameras exactly the same listed on other websites within China. The seller messaged and OFFERED a refund, plus an additional amount "for delay". I wrote back and advised that, as the seller seemed to have the same stock listed at a higher price, they could supply me with one of those in lieu of the refund. The reply to that message is in my opening post. Please note: I HAVE NOT received a refund to date.

I have since replied and said that they have until the close of business today to source the item, otherwise I will be advising both eBay and Paypal of their inability to honour their side of the contract. I have not heard back.

I do appreciate the input from everyone here. As I said in my second post in reply to crikey*mate, I have won a couple of auctions before and had the same thing happen (the item was auctioned at a price much lower than the BIN price - I was asked to accept a refund, which I did, as the sellers did not have similar stock). Subsequently, (within a couple of days), EXACTLY the same item was listed by the same sellers at a starting price almost triple the price I had paid previously.

I guess Paypal will make them refund the money and I can shop elsewhere. Its the principle of the matter - don't offer goods for auction if you have no intention of selling them at a markedly reduced price.

Re: Auction won, seller claims item out of stock

lyndal1838 — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:05:20 GMT

You have been offered a refund plus compensation....why do you want to open a paypal dispute?

Just accept it and look elsewhere.