topic Re: paypal reversal in Buying

paypal reversal

chalkeroochy — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 04:51:44 GMT

Last Thursday 12th Sept I bought (won) a bluray player on ebay

Item condition: Brand New
Ended: 12 Sep, 2013 22:21:24 AEST
Postage: AU $20.00 Economy delivery from outside AU
Item location: Charlotte, NC, United States

This was paid for within the hour thru paypal

My paypal Payment status 1st showed pending that night, then unclaimed the next morning with (The recipient of this payment is Unregistered)

Friday 13th I contacted the seller: (Member since: 06-Sep-13 / Location: United States

Positive feedback: 0%|Feedback score: 0)

ME: “I paid (or am trying to pay) via paypal, .. maybe your email address is wrongly typed?, or your palpay account needs to be activated? My paypal account shows: (The recipient of this payment is Unregistered)”

HIS REPLY: “Hello , sorry , i have to activated my paypal account , “ and then

“i already activation my paypal account now , please don't Worry, …..Cheers”

About 3 hours later my paypal Payment status showed complete

There was also: (The recipient of this payment is Non-US – Unverified) which I understand to means his bank account is outside US

Today, Saturday 14th the seller contacted me with

“Hi, I have already activated PayPal account , but now my paypal no your payment money , please check your paypal .again payment to me .”

I checked my paypal account, and this showed that paypal … without my or his knowledge .. had reversed the payment from his account back to mine ??

Ebay still show the item as paid ??

Anyone know what’s happened ?

Re: paypal reversal

foxette-in-sox — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 05:30:09 GMT

JMO but their chinglish answer plus selling all those high scam prone items would have been a red flag to me.

I would NOT pay & would have nothing more to do with them except to report them to ebay as possible fraudsters.

Re: paypal reversal

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 05:47:52 GMT

why would anybody in Australia buy electrical items from USA? USA does not use 240V, they use 110V. Not to mention the problems you would have if the "New" item needed repairs if it doesn't work as it should.

Re: paypal reversal

chalkeroochy — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 05:58:03 GMT

The same model is sold in Australia and US .. with a 115-230 volts switch on the back

Re: paypal reversal

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 06:20:03 GMT

that would make buying from the USA sensible if the price was right. Still might pose problems if a warranty claim is needed.

Re: paypal reversal

chalkeroochy — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 07:43:17 GMT

In this case about 45% less with the same 1 year only warranty ..

I'll post an outcome after paypal and ebay get back too me ..

The postage really did look a bit too cheap .. maybe foxette's right! .. also what does JMO mean?

Re: paypal reversal

davewil1964 — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 07:55:57 GMT

Just My Opinion.

But a warranty is only useful if it needs to be enforced. And if you need to return an item trackable to the US to invoke a warranty claim, that 45% will pale into insignificance. Not to mention the inconvenience factor.

Re: paypal reversal

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:14:28 GMT

Just be grateful you have been saved from from buying a cheap bit of electrical tat from China, the item may have been listed on the US site but in reality it will almost certainly come from China and if it is a 'recognised' brand will almost certainly be counterfeit. There would be no warrenty that was enforceable other than the 45 day Paypal cover and even if it did break down or was fake you would have to pay the cost of fully trackable delivery overseas.

Re: paypal reversal

chalkeroochy — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:30:39 GMT

Do not worry ... I was going to get it verified as real or counterfeit from the AU suppliers as soon as it arrived .. well within the 45 day paypal cover

Re: paypal reversal

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:40:38 GMT

@chalkeroochy wrote:
Do not worry ... I was going to get it verified as real or counterfeit from the AU suppliers as soon as it arrived .. well within the 45 day paypal cover

The problem you would have in this situation is that if you were to make a PayPal claim on the basis that the item is fake/copy they would need that verified in writing (not in writing from you though).

If you take it to the Australian suppliers and they say "it is fake", how supportive do you think they will be towards you seeing as you bought it on eBay rather than them? Do you think they will be falling over themselves to give you a letter on letterhead to support your claim?

If it is fake, and you have no supporting documentation, you will have to return it to the address supplied by PayPal with full tracking in order to get your refund.

Re: paypal reversal

chalkeroochy — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 11:37:17 GMT

If you try, a certificate of authenticity can readily be obtained from the Australian authorised suppliers, service agents and other authorities.

Re: paypal reversal

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 11:59:17 GMT

@chalkeroochy wrote:
If you try, a certificate of authenticity can readily be obtained from the Australian authorised suppliers, service agents and other authorities.

would any of these charge a fee to provide the certificate? i.e. would an authorised service agent charge you a set fee to even look at the item? (as a service agent their obligation is to service and not to verify)

If the item ends up being a fake, then the authorised agent is no longer obligated to service the item under warranty as it is a fake, and may therefore form the view that the provision of a certificate for an item not covered by warranty is a chargeable service.

Bottom line is that buying from an Australian seller provides better protections than buying from overseas. Price isn't always the best factor on which to base an eBay purchase.

Re: paypal reversal

chalkeroochy — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:21:12 GMT

Are you informed on the by laws and the obligations relating to this matter?

Re: paypal reversal

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:07:07 GMT

@chalkeroochy wrote:
Are you informed on the by laws and the obligations relating to this matter?

No, not at all. I have never in any of my posts on this or any thread on eBay claimed to have any legal training, knowledge or expertise (I leave that to the likes of Tall-Bearded et al). This is a discussion forum, and I have been discussing this topic.

I went back and read all my posts on this thread.

In post #3 I asked a question and made a (non-legal) comment. You answered my question in post #4 and I immediately gave your response a Kudo and made another (non-legal) comment in post #5.

In post #10 I made a comment regarding PayPal requiring proof in writing of an item being fake in order to have buyer protection. That is not a legal opinion, it is PayPal policy for buyer protections. I also asked a question about how helpful an authorised Australian supplier of a product would be towards a buyer who didn't buy from them, but bought for cheaper from eBay. Once more, not a legal opinion, just a comment. I also made a comment based on PayPal buyer protection policy regarding having to return an item in order to get a refund, once more not a legal opinion.

In post #12 I asked a question and made a comment regarding service agents and whether they would charge a fee to verify. I don't think that was a comment about legalities. This was followed up with a commonsense comment that "the authorised agent is no longer obligated to service the item under warranty as it is a fake" and that they "may therefore form the view that the provision of a certificate for an item not covered by warranty is a chargeable service", I mean that just makes sense to me! The last bit of that post is also not offering a legal opinion, just a personal one.

As I stated earlier, this is a discussion forum, and I have been discussing this topic. If you don't value my contribution or don't want me to contribute any further on this thread then just say so. I will be more than happy to oblige.

Re: paypal reversal

davewil1964 — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:08:17 GMT

@chalkeroochy wrote:
Are you informed on the by laws and the obligations relating to this matter?

I'm not, but I'll have a stab at guessing that Australian by-laws (which aren't Laws), consumer laws, ACCC, Fair Trading don't apply to sellers based overseas. And getting the Yanks to agree to something that is detrimental to even one voter is not going to happen.

You have not bought from an Australian agent, you have bought from a US based seller. You have no protection in Australian law and must rely on Paypal for any redress. And they require proofs that will normally cost more money than the item is worth.

Re: paypal reversal

thecatspjs — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:19:51 GMT

If the goods were purchased on the Australian ebay site and paid for via paypal.com.au you do indeed have a bucketful of rights in terms of how paypal deal with any claim.

Some Australian retailers are more than happy to provide written verification that an electrical item is authentic or not - you simply take the goods to them and ask them to quote in writing the regular / occassional servicing costs for presented goods.

If it is a fake item, and you can present sufficient supporting evidence, then you can also argue to paypal for non-return of same goods as it is illegal to post fake branded items, and international post that goes via customs is a huge no no.

Re: paypal reversal

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:34:33 GMT

Of course if it is authentic but is DOA or stops working within the 45 days, perhaps because it hasn't been packaged very well, you will not be able to refuse to return it, also if it breaks down after the 45 day limit you will get nowhere at all.

Re: paypal reversal

thecatspjs — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:39:40 GMT

Paypal can be quite reasonable in relation to prohibitive return costs if needs be, and evidence is provided of faulty goods and written quote to post back to seller.

Re: paypal reversal

davewil1964 — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:40:00 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
If the goods were purchased on the Australian ebay site and paid for via paypal.com.au you do indeed have a bucketful of rights in terms of how paypal deal with any claim.

Some Australian retailers are more than happy to provide written verification that an electrical item is authentic or not - you simply take the goods to them and ask them to quote in writing the regular / occassional servicing costs for presented goods.

If it is a fake item, and you can present sufficient supporting evidence, then you can also argue to paypal for non-return of same goods as it is illegal to post fake branded items, and international post that goes via customs is a huge no no.

Item location: Charlotte, NC, United States

Re: paypal reversal

thecatspjs — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:57:32 GMT

And .....many International products are available for purchase on ebay.com.au regardless of location ??