topic Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But... in Buying

Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

ramblingrose-2008 — Sat, 21 Sep 2013 02:11:16 GMT

Can anyone explain why buyers leave Negs or Neutrals without contacting sellers first..

Ok you go into Coles, Harvey Norman, Target or whatever buy an item take it home and open it up, find it has a small tear, mark scratch or what ever...what do you normally do.....take it back, speak to someone, get a refund or a replacement.... all is good or do you just walk up to the door and draw a big red circle on the door letting eveyone know you got a faulty item and walk away keeping the faulty item......NO of course you wouldn't......

Buy off eBay, pay, receive the item it has a small scratch, bend, mark, wrong size or what ever, what should be done, contact seller ....YES, try to sort something out.... YES... BUT what do a lot of buyers do is..... slap a bit red Neg or Grey Neut on the seller...and ignore.....That'l fix 'em.....Why on earth do that.....does that solve your problem...NO....you are left with an angry seller who probably won't do much to help you, except block you from buying and pass the word arond to all the other sellers who you are and what you did, they then also block you.......What have you gained.....nothing...you are probably left with a faulty item that had you contacted the seller would have replaced refunded or helped in some way.........it just does not make sense.....

Ok I agree there are some pretty shady sellers, not only on eBay but also on other websites too....I have come across a couple myself..but mostly sellers are willing to help if there is a problem...give them at least a chance to resolve the problem....you would be surprised at how many are really willing to help you......good honest sellers who may have missed something when packing, accidently sent the wrong item. it does happen we are only human the same as buyers we are all human, and humans make little mistakes when busy.......

Why would anyone prefer to slap a neut or Neg on a seller without trying to sort it out forst has got me beat...can anyone shed some light so sellers can understand too....

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 21 Sep 2013 03:07:11 GMT

@ramblingrose-2008 wrote:
Can anyone explain why buyers leave Negs or Neutrals without contacting sellers first..

for the same reason that buyers don't read descriptions, or try to haggle down postage price after a purchase . . . . it is an online transaction. It is easier to do this online because they do not have to come face to face with a seller. They just don't think about it the way that sellers do. If they are p***sed off with a seller they can let them know through feedback.

Wrong I know, but this is a flaw in the eBay experience for sellers i.e. that buyers can leave a negative without any way of ensuring that they contact the seller beforehand. You would think that eBay could put something in place to make sure contact has been made. After all, they have systems in place that prevent negative feedback being left for a Power Seller in the first ten days after a transaction (or something like that).

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

*kerryrose* — Sat, 21 Sep 2013 03:12:03 GMT

Hi Ramblingrose,

This is less a piece of advice rather than commiseration because, as a newbie seller I feel you! I think it's a good thing for people to both buy AND sell on Ebay so that they understand things from a seller's perspective. I sold an item not long ago and I had to open an unpaid item case because the buyer wasn't communicating with me and wasn't paying. As this was the first time I had sold an item I was actually a little stressed about it. As a buyer I pay as soon as I know that I've won an item and I always leave positive feedback; any issues have been sorted out directly with the seller. So it's hard for me to understand people who would leave a negative without trying to resolve things... Touch wood that I don't have negative feedback from a buyer in the future, but I just don't think it's possible to rule out altogether. From what I have read on this and other forums such as Whirlpool, negative feedback does happen occasionally despite accurate descriptions, good communication, etc.

All the best

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

*kerryrose* — Sat, 21 Sep 2013 03:15:23 GMT

@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:

Wrong I know, but this is a flaw in the eBay experience for sellers i.e. that buyers can leave a negative without any way of ensuring that they contact the seller beforehand. You would think that eBay could put something in place to make sure contact has been made.

You know, I completely agree. As you can see I haven't been on Ebay for long but I was SO excited at getting positive feedback from sellers. When I found out that sellers can only leave positive feedback it has taken me down a peg or two!!! I think that sellers should be able to leave realistic feedback, for sure.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

digital*ghost — Sat, 21 Sep 2013 03:36:09 GMT

@ramblingrose-2008 wrote:
Can anyone explain why buyers leave Negs or Neutrals without contacting sellers first..

I never have and I think the reasons can vary a bit, so I can't give you a definitive answer, but I think the simplest answer is that people will contact a seller when they want or need the seller to do something. If they don't think there is anything to gain by contacting a seller (or in some cases don't know that they can), then they will simply take the one action that doesn't cost them anything but a few seconds of time.

Buyers who purchase from a B&M are more likely to be disappointed in the product if it is faulty, rather than the store, so will not generally direct their anger at the store or staff (unless it was the store's service that they didn't like), but while they may not leave a visual mar on the store / product reputation, they can still damage it by word of mouth, social networks etc. There are some brands I still advise people not to buy due to both product quality and poor customer service I received from said brand more than ten years ago.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

bsal6160 — Sat, 21 Sep 2013 05:32:15 GMT

Why? Because feedback is a buyers opinion on the sale process.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

retailtherapist_8 — Sun, 22 Sep 2013 16:41:32 GMT

@bsal6160 wrote:
Why? Because feedback is a buyers opinion on the sale process.

yes but does the feedback process not also call for a rating for communication? Seems its becoming a lost art on ebay....

Feel for you OP all I can say is things will get better! Dont give up.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

misscarlikitty — Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:04:20 GMT

If you would like to encourage buyers to contact you before leaving negative feedback, do you mind if I give some advice?

Please excuse me if you've tried these things and it hasn't worked.

I'm wary of bringing the ire of the forum down upon me, but in my experience:

Some buyers, like sellers, are just jerks. They can't communicate properly and will leave negs because they can, or because they can't be bothered, or whatever. There's always feedback revision requests...

But some negs can be avoided. I find that:

1. A big sign underneath the listings helps. As a buyer, when I read those signs that say something like, 'if you're not happy, contact us!' etc, I usually will.

2. If I'm considering leaving negative feedback because of a seller's mistake, being offered return postage helps A LOT; and knowing in advance, that this is likely to happen, will get me emailing straight away.

If you have a comment on the listing which clearly states your returns policy in the case of faulty goods, you might open up the lines of dialouge to your customers.

Many sellers do this. They have banners which state their intentions and ask that buyers contact them before leaving negative feedback.

When a seller talks about 'compromising' after they have sent me something that is clearly so faulty or bad as to be unusable - it is hard to engage, hard to 'compromise'. I want them to pay return postage, because unless it was damaged in the post, it should be checked before posting!

Sometimes I feel that ebay store policies are too restrictive. I buy clothes off ebay much less now, as other online stores have customer friendly returns policies, so I never need to give them negative feedback - if they send me something bad, or ugly, or broken, I will know it can be fixed easily.

I hope this might help. I do wish that buyers had better manners too sometimes, because it sometimes feels like both buyers and sellers become defensive from too many negative interactions.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

*crikey*mate* — Sun, 22 Sep 2013 20:15:42 GMT

@retailtherapist_8 wrote:
@bsal6160 wrote:
Why? Because feedback is a buyers opinion on the sale process.
yes but does the feedback process not also call for a rating for communication? Seems its becoming a lost art on ebay....

Feel for you OP all I can say is things will get better! Dont give up.

Lost art? If eBay doesn't notice any communication between the two trading partners at all then the seller automatically gets 5 stars for Communication!

Work that one out!

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

springyzone — Sun, 22 Sep 2013 22:43:28 GMT

To me, DG hit the nail on the head.

Sometimes buyers may not know what other options are available or may not want to go through the hoops.

I've both bought and sold on ebay. I guess my sister and I sold close to about 2000 items a few years ago (under another name) and although we never got a negative or neutral, one thing we found is buyers aren't always rational, reasonable people. Some are real doozies to deal with. Thank god some of them didn't give us feedback at all, I suppose, because I am sure they blamed us anyway even when problems are their own doing. Like the person who gave us positive but said post out was slow and took 17 days. The only reason it took 17 days from the end of auction was because they didn't pay till day 14!!!

But back in those days, sellers could also give a negative and maybe that is what kept them in check to some extent..

Even if they do contact you and you do all you can to fix it, you might still cop a negative or neutral if someone wants to show how the feel about a transaction. I usually never give neutrals or negatives unless I don't get an item, but I was sorely tempted to give a neutral to a garden pot seller after a series of incidents. In the end, I just withheld any feedback on one of the items.

Can I just say one thing though, from my own experience. If a buyer has had a series of experiences where a lot of little disappointments have built up, then they may put up with it, give positive feedback but still feel disgruntled a little bit.

Then maybe they buy something from you and some small thing is wrong. It can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. They think, "Right, I have had it, I'm going to tell it how it is this time."

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

bsal6160 — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 07:01:47 GMT

I believe that a change in the RETURN OF GOODS POLICY is required by PayPal. If a dispute is opened and found in favour of the buyer, the return postage should be at the SELLERS expense. If this were policy then most negs probably could be avoided due to the buyer knowing they are NOT going to be out of pocket for the sellers mistake/oversight.

If I were to buy an item from a B&M store and found it to be broken I simply take it back and get ALL my money back or an exchange item. They dont say "Wait we will now deduct $?? because we have to send it back to the supplier." Nothing annoys a buyer more.

That simple peace of mind of knowing "Oh well at least I can just send it back---no problem" would be favourable to sellers in the long run.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

*crikey*mate* — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:34:10 GMT

bsal, but did they refund you the money that it cost to get to the B&M to firstly purchase the item and then to return it?

Besides, you told me you never get a broken item from a B&M cos you check everything before leaving the store.....

hmmmmm

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

bsal6160 — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:57:33 GMT

I wouldnt get a refund for travel because i didnt pay the shop for travel in the first place. The point is at a B&M you get a FULL refund of what you paid. So then by your reasoning I should also be able to deduct the cost of travelling to and from the post office to return an item?

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

*crikey*mate* — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 10:22:13 GMT

No matey, not at all.

You haven't paid the seller for travel either. You paid them the price of the item plus the costs for them to post your item to you on your behalf. The seller doesn't get to keep the money you paid them for postage, that is given to a third party (Australia Post) on your behalf.

As far as I consider things, my tranport costs are not the sellers responsibility at all, regardless of whether they be online or B&M.

It's nice that sellers sometimes do offer return postage, and I do so myself where it is my fault and not a change of mind purchase, despite what PayPal direct.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

bsal6160 — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 10:52:10 GMT

Ok. We will agree to disagree. But as a matter of interest, how would this work if ebay introduce mandatory free postage? Would it be free postage both ways? Just curious thats all.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

thecatspjs — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:32:44 GMT

In the Australian consumer legislation there are a particular provisions that apply to return of goods (including faulty and misrepresented) purchased from an Australian business.

My read of it is that consumers are generally responsible for all costs to return goods, unless the cost of doing is excessive in comparison to the value of the goods purchased, then the Australian business must organise the collection of the goods.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

digital*ghost — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:41:49 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
In the Australian consumer legislation there are a particular provisions that apply to return of goods (including faulty and misrepresented) purchased from an Australian business.

My read of it is that consumers are generally responsible for all costs to return goods, unless the cost of doing is excessive in comparison to the value of the goods purchased, then the Australian business must organise the collection of the goods.

Yes, but if the goods are found to be faulty, the seller is supposed to compensate the buyer for the cost of return.

"When you return goods to a seller, you must pay postage or shipping costs.

The seller must outline how much it will cost you to return the goods. You can then choose whether to pay the return costs, or keep the goods.

If you cannot easily return the goods to the seller, or return costs are significant – for example, if you were returning a wide screen TV or bed – the seller must pay for postage or collect the goods themselves. However, this only applies to goods with a major fault.

Once the seller has the goods, they will assess the fault and provide you with the appropriate remedy. If the goods have a major or minor fault, you have the right to recover the return costs in the form of compensation from the seller. If you have not paid return costs already and the goods are faulty, the seller should waive these costs."

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/shopping/refunds-and-returns/online-purchases

What isn't clear, however, is whether the buyer is meant to be compensated for the cost to send the item to them in the first place. I understand it's considered "the right thing" to do, but if you look at it from the perspective that buyer purchases goods, pays extra for the service of postage, the goods might be faulty but the postage service was still provided. The policy to refund full, original payment may just be the trade-off.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

thecatspjs — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:50:37 GMT

Noted and agree.

However, it is not a given.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:03:38 GMT

A lot of sellers have no refunds as their refund policy without qualifying it to say that there is of course a full refund for goods that are faulty or not as described. Seeing no refunds they probably think there is little point in contacting the seller.

Then there are people who have purchased items that it would cost more than it is worth to return them so unless a seller stated that they will pay for return postage if they are at fault then they don't feel there is any point in contacting.

Some sellers are less than friendly in both their listings and communications post sale, a buyer would be understandably reluctant to contact them about a problem.

some buyers just don't bother and leave negs as and when they feel like it, nothing much you can do about them other than accept that no doubt they are not picking on you alone.

Re: Forgive me if this is a dumb question But...

bsal6160 — Tue, 24 Sep 2013 06:44:40 GMT

This then raises the question "What would considered excessive cost to return?"