topic Re: Removal of negative feedback in Buying

Removal of negative feedback

rosebelle9798 — Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:34:27 GMT

This subject must be of considerable interest to a number of people that have had their feedback removed.

I have left only 3 negative feedbacks over a number of years with many purchases. All have been removed.

One was removed after I initiated a dispute and complaint about being libeled. I complained. he was found wrong, but he was rewarded with the removal of not only his offending reply but also all of mine which did not contravene policy.

Recently I legitimately stated that that the postage was excessive. And also discoved that another member's feedback stating the same was removed. The seller's score however was such that the reasonableness of his postage outscored the rest.

The basis of malcontent with this seller was that he started the auction at 99cents and it was won at that price but then charged $127 to have that 39kg item shipped less than 5km literally down the road to my place.

An examinination of the seller's feedback scores it indicates that some 200 feedbacks are missing that must be neutral or negative.

Clearly many feedbacks have been removed and given that it can be argued that, that freight cost was excessive and that the seller sells many of the same item and other items this way, that a substantial number of people would not have been completely happy with this charge.

Seeing that I found another member with the same view, before that person's feedback was also removed, I seemed to have some cause for concern about how the feedback is manipulated for large sellers to show an extraordinary postive feedback in the absence of almost non existent negative. In the real world this rarely is the case, some negative must be justified!

Another alarming point is that when I filled out the feedback it would not allow me to give less than the 5 stars; the item listing incorrectly said freight was free and that is why 5 stars are automatically given. So in affect I was only allowed to give feedback if I gave them 5 stars for freight, although that was the very point of my negative feedback - that freight was not reasonable!

Not fair trading on a number of points.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

repentatleisure1952 — Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:53:12 GMT

I don't have much of an opinion on most of your post, however I do find some of it "alarming"-

1.If it was only 5kms away did you attempt to negotiate pick up?

2.Was the freight cost stated in the listing?

3.Did you attempt to negotiate a favourable freight rate BEFORE bidding on the item?

4.I do agree that the cost appears to be excessive,however I would have considered steps 1,2,&3 if it were me & I have done this on numerous occaisons-if the price & freight cost does not suit I don't bid!

Works for me!!!

Re: Removal of negative feedback

repentatleisure1952 — Wed, 16 Oct 2013 23:59:49 GMT

Sorry,just noticed that you stated that freigt was free in the listing-I would have stiill confirmed this with the seller prior to bidding!

Re: Removal of negative feedback

jerryman12a — Thu, 17 Oct 2013 00:07:56 GMT

If the 3 Negs were removed then they must have contravened the feedback policies in some form . You have to be careful how you word them . I've seen Negs left with 'Very dissatisfied with the whole transaction" rather then something like " Had to get ebay involved for refund " etc which can most likely be removed.

Basically if you really want to leave a Neg that is truly deserved you have to be careful how you word the comment with it.

I'm not really interested in the rest of your post ( respectfully) as if you only ever have left 3 Negs then I'm not sure what the big deal is.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

repentatleisure1952 — Thu, 17 Oct 2013 00:08:21 GMT

Back again! It was not by any chance the king matress? If so I was unable to see where it stated that freight was free! The listing did say to contact the seller for freight details...........hmmmm......

Re: Removal of negative feedback

lyndal1838 — Thu, 17 Oct 2013 02:50:41 GMT

The OP said that they were charged $127 for freight, not that it was free. When an item is listed with Freight rather than a Postage rate it often comes up as Free Postage, which in turn means that the system automatically awards the seller 5 stars for postage.

I think the OP is complaining more about being forced to leave 5 stars for postage whn it was anything but a 5 star experience.

If you are unhappy about the feedback being removed and you believe it does not contravene feedback rules you can ring ebay and request that it be put back. I've done it.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

rosebelle9798 — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:43:29 GMT

In response to previous replies.

The add said contact seller for freight, however the feedback form later said on it that it was free and therefore automatic 5 stars which I believe is wrong.

I did try to contact seller about freight however they did not respond to it after close of bidding.

Yes I should perhaps not have bidded, but I relied on Feedback which is the crux of this complaint. It overwhelmingly gave me the impression that the seller was extremely reasonable on freight costs !

No I am not worried about the fact of three negatives removed, I am worried about the extreme difficulty in leaving any negative feedback, the space allowed means little can be explained that is open to various interpretation. Should we resort to seeking legal advice before leaving any negative feedback?

I was very concious of what I wrote when I wrote and I have concluded that negative feedback that contains non positive feedback will be removed at the whim of a large seller if they ask EBay. There policy is extremely hard to apply!

My concern is about the distortion within the resultant Feedback remaining against a Seller can falsely lead you to the wrong conclusion.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

rosebelle9798 — Sun, 20 Oct 2013 03:38:31 GMT

I meant to acknowledge lyndal1838, you confirmed that does happen with automatic 5star freight score, therefore I am not an isolated case. This clearly is not satisfactory, so avoid the way these things are listed? why should Ebay not be lobbyed to correct this..

Yes, tuckcase1989 you are on the money, how can you tell it was a mattress, my record has been removed atleast from what I am able to access?

Re: Removal of negative feedback

lyndal1838 — Sun, 20 Oct 2013 16:46:59 GMT

Rose, it is not really ebay's fault. It has something to do with the way the seller is listing the item.

I am not a seller so can not really explain it to you, but I had a similar thing happen with a large item from the UK. It was quite expensive and it was definitely listed as Free postage so I bid on it and won. I was very surprised to get a message from the seller that he would get a postage quote and get back to me.

Long story short, communications became very heated with me insisting that it showed as Free Postage to me in Australia and the seller insisting I was a scammer and a thief. He flatly refused to log in to ebay.au to see what I was telling him. I ended up ringing ebay who confirmed that all the seller's listings were showing Free Postage to all overseas countries. The ebay rep kindly contacted the seller on my behalf to assure him I was not a lying scammer and she showed him how to list so it would not show as Free Postage. I received an apology and within an hour all his listings were changed so they did not show as Free.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

rosebelle9798 — Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:56:26 GMT

Lyndal, mine said "contact the seller" but they would not reply. It was the feedback form that said "free"!

You say you won your GB item so you would have been locked into paying for freight as well, or were you able to negotiate after they changed their listing? My seller refused to negotiate (?) I assume this as they would not reply to my messages.

I even offered to pay for the item and told them to keep it - no response would not alter payment by PayPal (issue new invoice). Could only pay by PayPal (no alternatives) for the full amount. After a couple of days from end of auction it was listed as Unpaid Item. I of course tried paying only for the item and forfeit because I was infuriated and wanted nothing to do with them although including postage it was a good deal - but a principal. I believe they breached fair trading laws.

I guess this raises the topic "is it ethical to substantially raise the freight cost, then as a combined cost is their profit". I also think this against EBay policy and consumer law.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

lyndal1838 — Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:25:48 GMT

My seller was quite happy to cancel the whole transaction but I really wanted the item....it was a painting by an artist that I really like.

Although the freight costs put the price up quite substantially the seller was agreeable to removing the frame and glass, which made a huge difference to the final costs. I was still ahead, even having to reframe the painting.

I have ended up happy with my purchase, but whether I would go through it all again...probably not. It is not a nice experience being called a liar, cheat, scammer just because the seller was too stubborn to log in to ebay.au to check out what I was telling him.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

*crikey*mate* — Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:58:25 GMT

@rosebelle9798 wrote:
Lyndal, mine said "contact the seller" but they would not reply. It was the feedback form that said "free"!
You say you won your GB item so you would have been locked into paying for freight as well, or were you able to negotiate after they changed their listing? My seller refused to negotiate (?) I assume this as they would not reply to my messages.
I even offered to pay for the item and told them to keep it - no response would not alter payment by PayPal (issue new invoice). Could only pay by PayPal (no alternatives) for the full amount. After a couple of days from end of auction it was listed as Unpaid Item. I of course tried paying only for the item and forfeit because I was infuriated and wanted nothing to do with them although including postage it was a good deal - but a principal. I believe they breached fair trading laws.
I guess this raises the topic "is it ethical to substantially raise the freight cost, then as a combined cost is their profit". I also think this against EBay policy and consumer law.

Hi, I'm not disputing, just curious.

Which Fair Trading Laws do you believe they breached?

Would it be too much trouble for you to show me?

please?

Re: Removal of negative feedback

digital*ghost — Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:41:07 GMT

I've had a relatively thorough look at the mattress listing and the seller's other listings for mattresses (both BINs and auctions), and there's a couple of things that I think are worth mentioning.

1. Freight is a postage method, and does not allow a seller to enter a cost when selected. It sometimes (incorrectly) shows as free, but it should never be taken as free unless specifically stated by the seller either in the listing description / title, or via messages (in other words, if ever eBay show freight as free, confirm this with the seller).

2. The seller uses a postage calculator on their listings. I used it on a mattress auction ending in less than half an hour as well as the specific listing the OP won, and both times got a quote just above $130. Chances are, that's why the feedback was removed, because the seller makes the P&H cost available in the listing, and eBay consider complaints in feedback about postage costs in those circumstances worthy of removal. The seller's BIN's for the mattresses come up with free freight on the calculator, so on those they probably selected Freight as the postage method, then ticked the free post box.

3. The seller states that pick-up is not available on auction items (and pick-up otherwise incurs a handling fee of $10), as they allow pick-up for BINs, it's a fairly safe bet that the freight costs on 99c auctions include some profit margin.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

digital*ghost — Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:09:46 GMT

I thought I better add, just to clarify, I'm not condoning the seller's listing practices, just pointing out that some of the issues raised were evident, or actually did have the relevant info, in the listings.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

rosebelle9798 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 01:39:01 GMT

Crikey mate the acts are massive and my first reaction was crikey mate that's difficult (joke) however the Australian Consumer Law Schedule 2 2010 which came into force 1 January 2011, spells out things in simple terms..

As you may know this Act was produced not only to make a unversal law for all of Australia but also to make things clear and simple and less technical.

In answer to your question I will argue in the first instance that the seller breached:

"You are entitled to see the total price, inclusive of any addition fees, charges or taxes"

However you will see by digital ghost's reply that a defence can be mounted (that most info could have been found).

Digital ghost was able to use the freight calculator to get a figure about $130, however my experience was that the calculator did not work (locked out).

What is also an important point is that I don't think any body can use as a defence "the system". Like the seller mentioned by Lyndal, or for that matter EBay shirking away from problems with their system. All parties have responsibilites under these trading laws.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

lyndal1838 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:45:59 GMT

Don't bring me into your arguements. My seller was in the UK and I am sure he did not give a flying fig about Consumer Laws in Australia.

There was no problem with the ebay system...my seller just did not know how to use it in relation to a listing using Freight. As soon as the ebay rep talked him through how to list an item with Freight all his listings were corrected immediately.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

rosebelle9798 — Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:51:38 GMT

lyndal your absolutely right wasn't trying to pull you into the argument. Overseas Ebays work differently (however if he advertised in Aus then he was obligated to make sure that it was correct and also that he should not resort to name calling etc.).

Mine is a simple easily understood local issue that should not be allowed to happen (and that is the seller's reputation can be grossly misrepresented by the way feedback is manipulated).

I am gauging whether members(buyers) think that this a problem, and that Ebay should address.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

dave-the-sparky — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:09:30 GMT

i too have an issue with the feedback system... i bought a mobile phone off a seller with 100% feedback. it was faulty on arrival, listing stated refund available if buyer paid postage. contacted seller and he agreed to refund. returned phone with tracking and ended having to get e-bay to contact seller for me. i left a negative feedback so others would know what happened. seller then opened a non payment claim on me after i had paid and he had refunded me, this puts a negitive strike on me!!! e-bay removed the strike against me but this process also removes his negitive feedback, he is still on 100% so if you know how to fudge the system you can keep a clean slate while doing dodgy deals, so a seller with 100% may not be all that good!

Re: Removal of negative feedback

lyndal1838 — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:23:08 GMT

There was no fudging of the system as you put it....you just did not know how to use it properly.

It was a bit unethical of the seller to open a non payer dispute against you, but if you had answered it by quoting the paypal payment ID the strike would not have been issued and the feedback would not have been removed.

Also, did you mention disputes in the feedback...that is grounds for it to be removed.

Re: Removal of negative feedback

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:24:25 GMT

the 5 star postage thing just occurred to me.

it is a flaw, BUT

Postage and freight are TWO completely different things.

The DSR's specifically ask you to rate the POSTAGE rate, and because there was no postage, it was free, so 5 stars.

The feedback DSR's aren't asking you to rate freight costs.

Could this be why the feedback was removed? because the word postage was used in the feedback?