topic Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now? in Buying

Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 04:37:44 GMT

I was bidding on an iPhone. The listing did NOT include the IMEI number. So, I messaged the seller asking for this number. The seller said they would find it and reply later. As it was getting closser to the end time, I again messaged the seller. However, they did not reply before the listing ended and I had won the item.

I then received a message asking when I would pay for the item.. I replied asking when the seller would be supplying the IMEI number.

The seller sent the IMEI number, which I checked straight away. I discovered that 1) the iphone had been reported as "Lost or Stolen" on the AMTA database 2) it was carrier locked to Vodafone, who (of course) identified it as 'stolen' and will not 'unlock' stolen phones.

I then contacted the seller and informed them of the above. I also requested the member's contact details via eBay.

The 'seller' started giving excuses, pleaded innocence, and asked that I not report the matter to Police or eBay. I saw that this "seller" was ending their messages with a male name - while I saw from eBay's reply that the account owner was a female. i asked the 'seller' about this, and he replied that the account owner was his girl friend - who had given her permission for him to use her account. He also made admissions about the "Lost" iPhone (as he called it - even though it was obviously now "found" and therefore was now stolen property.

I immediately ceased communication because I had no way of knowing if the account had been hacked and even if it had not, I know that one is not permitted to let someone else use your account.

I reported the sale, the member, and the use of the account, to eBay. I included the IMEI number and links to Vodafone and the AMTA. I also said that they should read my message history with the seller's account for proof. After two days I received a strange reply saying that they can't/won't do anything about the listing unless the Poice contact them. They also ignored/did not reply about the misuse of the seller's account.

I don't really want to have to print everything out (listing/sale/message history/AMTA report/Vodafone unlocking report) and go to my local Police Station. I mean, what would they even do - if anything?

I tried calling eBay (after obtaining a refference number), but the call terminated after 1hour 3minutes of waiting on 'hold'.

Just wondering if anyone in the eBay community have any good ideas of what to do next. Cancel transaction? Leave neg feedback. Try eBay again? Go to the Police?

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

tstore — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 04:45:10 GMT

Just ask for cancel request and move on. You are exerting too much energy into this thing. You came out clearly ahead without exchanging money or having to send an item back be grateful 🙂

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 05:06:35 GMT

"Just ask for cancel request and move on."

I agree this would be the easiest and simplest thing to do.

What about feedback? Seller (or boyfriend of seller) may attempt to sell the stolen property again?

What about the risk of it coming back on me, as I failed to report a crime? The sale of stolen goods.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

amber-eyed-girl — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 06:05:20 GMT

If you are concerned about that, call your local police station and ask their advice.

That would be the best thing to do. Keep all your emails in case the seller opens an unpaid item dispute.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 06:19:30 GMT

>"If you are concerned about that, call your local police station and ask their advice.
That would be the best thing to do. Keep all your emails in case the seller opens an unpaid item dispute."

Yes, thank you. I guess that would be best/safest thing to do.

I kept all communication within eBay's Message system. I stopped communicating when I discovered that the person messaging me was not the Account holder.

I have received a Cancel Transaction request from the seller's account - with no reason given for the request.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

amber-eyed-girl — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 06:22:10 GMT

Accept the cancellation to finish it with them. You do not need to give a reason either if you are not comfortable saying what happened.

Just hang onto all your emails for a while 🙂

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:40:29 GMT

I would not agree to a mutual cancellation, at the very least the bloke, or his girlfriend, deserve to have to pay the final value fee, there is no way they are going to open an unpaid item dispute and even though ebay won't get involved in the ins and outs of the transaction they would remove an unpaid item strike on appeal under these circumstances.

You can call the police and ask their advice but as you haven't actually paid for or received the phone they probably won't be interested, you could contact Vodaphone, they may be able to do something.

Hopefully you have scared the pants off this numpty and they won't try to sell it again.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

amber-eyed-girl — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:53:56 GMT

If there isn't a cancellation, can't the seller open up an unpaid item dispute?

That's what worries me about this.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

i-once-was-bump — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:59:49 GMT

the seller would have to be afool to open an unpaid item case because the buyer has all documented the reason they would not pay for the item.

But then, the seller was stupid enough to list the phone the first place so maybe they will open an unpaid item dispute but that really doesn't matter because the buyer only has to explain why they didn't pay.

I think the buyer should report the matter to the police on line fraud squad.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

amber-eyed-girl — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 08:02:44 GMT

That's what I think bump, they might dispute as they will want to relist quite probably.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 08:04:40 GMT

>"I would not agree to a mutual cancellation, at the very least the bloke, or his girlfriend, deserve to have to pay the final value fee"

Yes, I see now that if I do nothing for 4 days they get to cancel the transaction by default. So, I will refuse the request.

>You can call the police and ask their advice but as you haven't actually paid for or received the phone they probably won't be interested,

Correct. Not interested in stolen property. They tried to 'palm me off' to the on-line fraud setion based in Queensland.

>"you could contact Vodaphone, they may be able to do something."

Yes, at least Vodafone might allert the legal owner as to who may still have their iPhone. Unless the boyfriend did an insurance fraud - not knowing that the insurer would 'block' the phone after paying the claim.

>"Hopefully you have scared the pants off this numpty and they won't try to sell it again."

Yup. His last few messages were getting 'desperate'. He did not want the Police involved.

Any ideas about how to leave carefully worded feedback, that would alert people about the stolen phone - without it being against eBay rules (so it would not be removed by eBay)?

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 08:14:15 GMT

>"the seller would have to be a fool to open an unpaid item case because the buyer has all documented the reason they would not pay for the item."

Yes, and in the eBay Messages the person using the selling account admitted it was not his account, and claimed he was using his girlfriends eBay account (with permission). This turned out to be true, but at the time I was not to know that it was a hacked account.

>"But then, the seller was stupid enough to list the phone [in] the first place so maybe they will open an unpaid item dispute but that really doesn't matter because the buyer only has to explain why they didn't pay."

Yes. I am not worried about that. I have a very good record with eBay/PayPal and a full record of the conversations with the 'seller'. More concerned about the young man getting away with selling stolen property that he may have stolen himself, or at least found and did not try to return to the owner.

I called the account holder (eBay member) and she said her boyfriend was 21, and that she did not know it was a stolen iPhone.

>"I think the buyer should report the matter to the police on line fraud squad."

They appear to only deal with fraud, not stolen property, and only when money has been paid.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

blakesus — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:14:29 GMT

I don't mean to pick or anything but the ad clearly said that it was blocked and couldn't be used in Australia, why would you expect to receive anything else? If you put anything in your feedback about the lock it's almost certainly going to be removed on request as it was clearly stated in the ad, irrespective of whether the sale is above board.

Police won't do anything as you have no interest in the transaction. I'd inform Vodafone who will be best placed to facilitate a criminal complaint if required as they will have the information of the customer who requested the block, or it may have been Vodafone themselves obviously if it involved a fraudulent application or insurance claim.

JMO but I'd forget the feedback, call Vodafone and then just move on and be a little more careful in future.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:35:58 GMT

>"I don't mean to pick or anything but the ad clearly said that it was blocked and couldn't be used in Australia,"

No problem. You should point out any errors or mistakes I make/made. i obviously need to be more careful when sellers do not include the IMEI number and when they are reticent to supply one before their listing finishes.

However, the listing DID NOT state that the phone was "blocked".

It stated:-

1) "iPhone requires unlocking for usage - Phone Does Not Work In Australia"

2) "This auction is for the latest Apple iPhone 32GB 5s in silver in a brand new condition which is locked to Vodafone therefore will require unlocking for usage on any network worldwide apart from Australia"

I can not see the word "blocked" anywhere.

There was also this threat in the listing description -

"no payment made within 24 hours will force us to report you to eBay which will lead to suspension of your account"

>why would you expect to receive anything else?

Because there was no mention of it being IMEI blacklisted as a stolen phone. As a stolen phone it can not be Carrier unlocked by Vodafone and therefore can not be used outside Australia as claimed by the seller.

>"If you put anything in your feedback about the lock it's almost certainly going to be removed on request as it was clearly stated in the ad, irrespective of whether the sale is above board."

Well, no, it was not in the listing that the phone was stolen property. Nor that it was IMEI blocked and on the AMTA 'blacklist'.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

davewil1964 — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:54:17 GMT

i would have thought 'Phone does not work in Australia' to have been a hint that it might not work in Australia.

But that's just me. I buy phones from real sellers, in Australia, where I get a real phone that works with a real warranty. Call me a Luddite.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

amber-eyed-girl — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:53:25 GMT

"Yup. His last few messages were getting 'desperate'. He did not want the Police involved.

Any ideas about how to leave carefully worded feedback, that would alert people about the stolen phone - without it being against eBay rules (so it would not be removed by eBay)?"

You have proof it is stolen, you would still have to be careful with what you say.

If they open an unpaid item dispute, when you don't pay eBay will place an unpaid item strike on your ID.

You will need to appeal for it to be removed. Do this, because these strikes can be used by sellers to block bidders, and stay on your ID for 12 months.

Technically, if you don't pay with a dispute, eBay can remove your feedback if the seller asks for that.

It is unlikely you would be able to get it reinstated.

Which was why I thought the cancellation might be the way forward; less hassle (potentially) for you if they dispute, and your feedback had a good chance of sticking.

I hope they won't do a dispute.

Good luck with everything 🙂

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

zelly888 — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:56:43 GMT

However, the listing DID NOT state that the phone was "blocked".

It stated:-

1) "iPhone requires unlocking for usage - Phone Does Not Work In Australia"

I can not see the word "blocked" anywhere.

REQUIRE UNLOCKING

THIS MEANS THAT THE PHONE IS BLOCKED!!!!!

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:02:06 GMT

>"i would have thought 'Phone does not work in Australia' to have been a hint that it might not work in Australia."

I do not need it to "work in Australia". I needed it to work outside of Australia. In another country in Oceania.

>But that's just me. I buy phones from real sellers, in Australia, where I get a real phone that works with a real warranty.

How was I to know that this seller was not 'real', but was using the account of a real seller?

The account was an Australian eBay account.

To get a warranty you would need to buy either a new iPhone or one that was within its warranty period.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

mikisftf — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:06:58 GMT

>"REQUIRE UNLOCKING

>THIS MEANS THAT THE PHONE IS BLOCKED!!!!!"

Ah, no. You are confusing "lock" "locked" "unlocking" - which refers to Carrier Locking of an iPhone

with

"blocked" "unblocking" "blacklisting" - which refers to the IMEI blocking/baring of a lost or stolen mobile phone.

Re: Purchased a 'stolen' iPhone. eBay no help. What do I do now?

davewil1964 — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:24:12 GMT

Well, I wouldn't buy an iPhone. I have issues with Apple's business model.

Nevertheless I wouldn't buy a phone, or a computer, or a fridge, or furniture, or a TV, or electronics (especially from China), or pretty much anything that was worth dollars and I wanted a warranty on, online.

As others have said, including me, there are things that don't lend themselves to buying online. There is also the 'if it seems too good to be true, it is' factor.