topic Re: Is leaving feedback safe? in Buying

Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 06:17:06 GMT

Let me first start off by saying that eBay is way to heavily weighted towards the buyer. With eBay and paypal policies and enforcement it amounts to a shoplifters paradise and a genuine hard working sellers nightmare. But after reading recent posts on the new defect seller requirements, correct me if I am wrong but sellers are able to go back and see what transaction in fact caused said defect and who and what buyer caused it. I am all for sellers being able to block buyers who leave them negative, neutral or low dsr ratings. In fact I believe if a buyer does so they should automatically be blocked from future purchases from the seller that they left low or negative ratings. But if a seller can now go back and see who caused them a problem and has their name and address can potentially now leave the feedback leaver in personal danger from a disgruntled seller. I feel the whole feedback system is a bit of a joke but if one can see who leaves low feedback there is now a danger for buyers leaving feedback that affects sellers negatively. In closing I know 99.999% of sellers would do nothing more than block a trouble buyer, but it's the .001% who will use this info to do harm in one way or another.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 06:50:40 GMT

Would love to hear from a store seller if this is correct? Do they want sellers to automatically rollover and refund? and buyers to be afraid of leaving justified feedback which is less than glowing of the seller?

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

springyzone — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 06:50:47 GMT

Sellers have been able to access buyer details such as phone numbers and addresses for many years and they would know who gave negative feedback but I agree, the low star ratings etc should be confidential.

I can recall getting a blast from an angry seller many years ago when i left a negative, he was on the phone furious but also puzzled as to why I gave it.

What had happened is he sold my daughter a concert ticket She bought it via my ebay account) but when she drove a fair way to pick it up, she found it was not for the day advertised. The seller apologised and ended up selling her another ticket for the right day, but not in as good a location.

It was an honest mistake on the part of the seller so i advised her not to leave any feedback at all. She didn't feel she could leave positive in the circumstances.

A few days later, I was shocked to see the seller had launched an unpaid item dispute with me. No message first, no reminder-if there had been I would have been able to remind him what had happened.

So I responded to the dispute and gave him a negative for all round incompetence. Boy, did he go off and his main gripe? I hadn't let him know, didn't give him a chance to do anything before I gave negative, I said he didn't give me a chance either before he launched into a dispute. You know, if he had, I would not have given any feedback at all.

So yes, it can get a bit fiery when things go wrong, but I doubt sellers would worry so much about low stars, they would worry more about a negative? And they have always had addresses of buyers.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

horizon1907 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:23:24 GMT

Leaving feedback is Voluntary. If you feel uncomfortable about it, don't. Personally, I don't really think you have any reason too though. The Seller has your details anyway. It's a valid point you make.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:23:53 GMT

Yes I am aware that the address of a buyer leaving a neg is easily accessible but now leaving a 3 star feedback on any dsr rating now constitutes a defect and now leaves the buyer open to retribution from being identifiable.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

bsal6160 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:25:00 GMT

And what if a negative was well deserved by seller? So you are saying if a seller gets a neg that is well deserved they should not get a defect and the buyer should then be punished for a bad seller? There are processes in place for BOTH parties to follow.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:34:06 GMT

Here we go!!! Did you read the original post? My whole point of this post is that genuine and reasonable buyers are able to leave anonymous, accurate and impartial feedback towards sellers who genuinely deserve it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

2011.narelle — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 08:00:03 GMT

Some valid points but the chances of a seller having a rage attack over feedback & hunting down a buyer would be possible but unlikely.Most of my buyers are in other states,am i going to fly to Perth to abuse someone?Rhetorical question cos i really couldn't bother to do anything except leave an appropriate response to feedback & block them.

On the other side of that,i have to put my address on the back of each satchel,so several hundred people have my address & details.So that scenario goes both ways & I've never had a threat or visit from a buyer.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

digital*ghost — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 08:03:54 GMT

@comics.n.more wrote:
Here we go!!! Did you read the original post? My whole point of this post is that genuine and reasonable buyers are able to leave anonymous, accurate and impartial feedback towards sellers who genuinely deserve it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's interesting you bring this up, I posed a question on the seller's board recently asking if anyone thought the defect system was going to affect buyers and buyer behaviour, but got no replies...

Here's what I want to ask you first...

Should buyers really be able to have a tremendously adverse affect on a seller's account anonymously and with absolutely no accountability?

That's largely the way it was under the old system, and personally I vote an emphatic no.

I would have aboslutely no problem whatsoever with DSRs remaining anonymous if eBay didn't use them to punish sellers, but they do use them in that way, and as far as I'm concerned that means there needs to be some accountability for buyers, not free license to leave whatever the heck they want for whatever reason they want and allow eBay to use it as though it's tangible evidence of bad seller behaviour etc.

If they were merely overviews / general reviews, keep them anonymous*, I wouldn't care, but when my capacity to sell on eBay is compromised because someone decides to rate a star at 3 rather the 4, not a word to me directly or via feedback of any problem, I would like the opportunity to prevent them from doing it again.

The flip side, however, is that I recognise buyers will become more conscious of the DSRs they leave, and possible consequences of causing a defect (and by consequences I'm more referring to seller reaction, including contacting buyers and/or blocking them), and I do believe that is going to have some kind of effect on buyer behaviour, and I don't really think it's for the better.

Personally, I think it would be a rare occurence for a seller to compromise the safety of a buyer over an eBay issue - not saying it hasn't ever happened (I don't know), or wouldn't ever happen, but I don't think it's going to be more likely due to the defect system.

*Fact of the matter is, DSRs were never truly anonymous, it was a convoluted process of running several reports to determine who left a low rating, so a seller had to be committed to finding out, but it has always been possible.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 08:28:38 GMT

Thank you for responding. No I feel buyers have to much weight on the sellers ability to be able to sell on eBay. Buyers should be able to be rated the almost same as sellers, not quite to the extant of sellers but at least enable sellers to know if their buyer has a history of IRN of low dsr or negative feedback. Look I myself have sold here and we are left at the hands of buyers to do the right thing, If both sides are left in fear of negative consequences(mainly the seller) is this whole thing just a whitewash which now enables hard working sellers to be defrauded and buyers put at risk from retribution from non store sellers?

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

digital*ghost — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 08:44:35 GMT

@comics.n.more wrote:
If both sides are left in fear of negative consequences(mainly the seller) is this whole thing just a whitewash which now enables hard working sellers to be defrauded and buyers put at risk from retribution from non store sellers?

That's just it, though... Fear is a behaviour modifier, but a really, really bad one, especially in an environment where mutual trust and respect goes a lot further than fear of what the other person might do, and that's what I think is actually the biggest problem with the way ebay are handling the entire defect system - sellers scared of buyers, even scared of what in normal circumstances would be considered good customer service (eg hassle free refunds or returns, transaction cancellations when a buyer changes their mind etc), and buyers beginning to worry about the DSRs they leave.

Back when buyers could receive negative feedback, what's the bet that the majority of buyers who feared receiving a neg and hesitated to be completely honest or alert sellers to problems, were the ones who by and large did the right thing? People who are acutely conscious of negative consequences, and modify their behaviour because of them, tend to be the ones that actually care about this sort of thing, so as far as I'm concerned, in the long run this entire system is going to have a negative impact on the buyers and sellers who care the most. 😞

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:04:17 GMT

I agree completely. Sellers are robbed blind by dodgey eBay buyers and sellers have no real way to prevent other sellers getting bitten. eBay should be a completely mutual feedback system but not one where buyers are scared to leave honest feedback against the the small minority of dishonest sellers. All genuine sellers are so scared as to not violate policies and procedures to remain on eBay that they do whatever to remain in place. People who leave incorrect and ridiculous feedback should be removed as much as sellers who misrepresent there services.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

comics.n.more — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:12:15 GMT

I think off hand I have only ever given 6 of my 200 plus transactions a less than 5 star across the board rating. If I get an item and it works the first time I try and leave the best possible feedback comment.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

digital*ghost — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:29:23 GMT

I just thought I'd add, as well, that if it looks like I have mixed emotions regarding both the DSR and defect systems, it's because I do...

On some levels, I can see what eBay is trying to acheive, and as standalone ideas, they have some merit (DSRs moreso than the defect system), I just disagree with many of the ways they've been implemented, and believe that what are commonly subjective, opinion-based ratings have no place in deciding whether a seller is worth their salt. eBay keeps saying that their data shows buyers who leave a 3-star or less rating for description etc are less likely to return to eBay and keep spending, but to automatically presume that means the seller did something wrong and dish out punishment for it is inherently wrong.

What I would really like to see is consequences based on signifcantly more tangible evidence of a so-called 'defect', reviews recognised for what they are, which would allow for their subjectivity (and therefore honesty), then we can all go back to concentraing on buying / selling.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:58:29 GMT

I think the whole DSR and defect system is a stupid waste of buyers, sellers and ebay's time so will continue to sell, and buy, in what I consider the correct manner and would never compromise what I think is the right thing to do because of what ratings I may give or get.

It is also my experience that there are far more dodgy sellers than buyers, I have only ever had one buyer try to rip me off, I lost not a cent in the end and the only red dots I ever received were removed, but I have had a considerable number of sellers try and rip me off and I wouldn't care if the whole bunch turned up on my doorstep at once seeking retribution it would not stop me leaving the feedback and DSRs they deserve.

I do think that if positive feedback is left then a buyer should not be able to mark down description stars below 4, if they are unhappy enough with an item to leave a low star they should be up front enough to leave neut or neg feedback.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

chameleon54 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:09:54 GMT

Interesting point you raise. As you say 99.99% of ebayers are fine, but over the years I have come across several ( three that I can think of ) genuine outright nutters. These where buyers not sellers and I,m not sure that they would be able to sell, at least without raising red flags with listing descriptions etc. I have always handled them with care and never had any problems with them, but man they could be really scary if something went wrong.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

springyzone — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:01:12 GMT

There are a few factors to consider.

* First off, I suspect many ebay buyers still think their star rating is confidential because it used to be and ebay used to say that.

* Second, I doubt most casual buyers would have much clue that their star rating has much impact on sellers. They would probably be aware that a negative matters, but I am betting most think the star rating is just a guide.

* Third, even if they think of the stars as a guide, I bet my bottom dollar most wouldn't see 3 stars as a bad rating. It isn't the nature of people to give top or bottom ratings for things, unless they are really, really motivated. I have to admit I rarely gave 5 stars as a matter of course and even now, if someone took 3-4 days to post something to me, they wouldn't be getting 5 stars for speed. I would lay odds most people would say 5 is fantastic, 4 stars is very good, 3 is average, quite okay, 2 is poor show and 1 means I am really angry about this aspect, they were pretty poor.

I know ebay may not judge it that way, but casual buyers probably do. You aren't going to change human nature so ebay needs to change.

But if buyers aren't really aware that their star rating has much impact or is seen by sellers and could result in them being blocked buyers, then it isn't going to influence their behaviour.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

bettyboopsadaisy — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 00:26:19 GMT

I agree.

I believe the true inequity began when ebay made it impossible for sellers to leave neg or neutral feedback for buyers.

Their reason that was and is always given for this - sellers were leaving retaliatory neg feedback for buyers.

All that ebay achieved by taking away the right of sellers to leave neg or neutral feedback for buyers was to turn the tables !

Now sellers are vulnerable to retaliatory feedback if they don't accede to the requests or demands of buyers, not matter how unreasonable. They live in fear of dreaded neg or neutral feedback.

As I've said in many other threads, the 'subtext' of many ebay policy decisions and comments here is that they value retaining buyers of any description much more than retaining even the good, trustworthy, honest sellers.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

foxette-in-sox — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 01:40:54 GMT

I don't know if the following is deserving of it's own thread, but if I see the following when I click on the tracking number provided and then the tracking number for the parcel shows as it not even being lodged with local post office until say around 5 days later, I will mark the seller's star's down.

Shipping information received by Australia Post

IMO, the seller is being dishonest as to when they actually post my parcel and they seem to think that just because they've printed the label, that qualifies as posting.

Now please feel free to tell me I'm wrong in my thinking and that I should instead, just message the seller, who will somehow magically make it all ok.

Re: Is leaving feedback safe?

springyzone — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 07:01:33 GMT

Perfectly reasonable, foxette.

Honesty is everything and it is annoying to have people mislead. I'd mark the stars down, too. They would get a 2 or 3 from me, no higher.