topic Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ? in Buying

What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

polly.the.cat — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 05:54:59 GMT

I have been reading the many comments given in the light of ebay's delve, into the "cost" Sellers charge to post a said item. Without bringing up all that has already been mentioned, l am a bit confused now. What l have been watching was a Video Card for a PC, Seller had it for BIN @ $7.95 with Postage added of $5.95 Same Seller now has same item BIN @ $16.95 FREE POSTAGE.

So looking at that example, l fail to see any FREE POSTAGE there at all. Is is better to still show the actual cost of postage, along with the actual cost of the said item ? Do ebay still "profit" no matter what out of the cost of postage to the said Buyer , which the Buyer is paying for.

I myself feel that it is not right to have a Seller claim you are getting FREE POSTAGE, when in reality, that is NOT THE CASE.

Just my thoughts though. Thank you.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

curraone — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 06:31:22 GMT

There are plenty of sellers who know how you feel - unfortunately this new policy has been forced on us by new ebay policy.

Sellers now have to pay final fees to ebay on the total cost of the item, including postage - so there is no longer any advantage to the seller to list the postage separately.

Further, ebay advises that the search programs will give priority to items with free postage, so you see sellers are under pressure to make their items "free postage" if they can - what it really means, and we have lobbyed for a name change, is "postage included".

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

fixnwear — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 06:44:14 GMT

attic, there is no free postage in Australia - or anywhere else.

The only time it would be free to us (buyers) is if the sellers paid for it out of their profits.

No seller would do that unless they sell items that are hugely marked up.

But that asside, every time I see free postage I know the postage price was built in - and yes, you are right, weather it's split or all in one makes no difference - the end result is the same - we pay postage.

Can't see how it's the wrong thing to display free postage - they can do what they like - as long as that's eveident in the final invoice, no postage amount.

And so we should pay postage, included or shown seprately, it's being posted to us, using the third party that has a fee for their service - while we don't have to leave the house and use our time and petrol to go around the shops.

I would pay anyone double just for that convenience alone!

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

polly.the.cat — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:00:37 GMT

Thank you fixnwear, No, you are correct. Think maybe things got a bit mixed here. Yes, ALL SELLERS should pass on the actual cost of the postage, infact l would even pay a bit extra to assist with the packaging. The point you bring up is more than fair, a Buyer has the right to know the cost of p&h, plus the cost of said item. Only fair.

Maybe yes have Seller say item is $35.00 includes Postage. On the invoice qoute item xxx $25.00 Postage $10.00

Would this help ????

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

digital*ghost — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:25:02 GMT

What is free postage?

A party-pack sized can of worms sitting in the middle of a minefield.

Free postage is one of those things is variable according to individual sellers. At the outset, all business costs need to be covered in order for a seller to make a profit, so - ultimately - the buyer is paying for it in one way or another, presuming the seller is still making profit after all is said and done.

Whether or not that always means the seller has decided on an item price and tacked postage costs onto that to get an eBay "free post" Buy It Now" price is debatable, and at the very least not always the case.

Some sellers will do that, others will add on a percetage of postage costs because the majority of their buyers purchase multiple items (though free post doesn't provide any financial incentive to do so), others will take their normal prices and offset free postage offers with reduced overheads (if any), some will remove postage costs, keeping the item price the same, as a promotional offer (I've done that myself).

But... the main issue about advertising something as free postage doesn't come from the fact that we all know someone has to pay to get an item from point A to point B, it comes from the understanding that advertising an item as "free postage" to a buyer is meant to mean the buyer has not paid that cost.

So, more options to promote "no more to pay" would go down a treat here, I think, particularly amongst those who want to be transparent with their costs etc. I suggested a while back something like total cost displayed, with a breakdown (if applicable) of costs involved, eg:

Awesome Widget - $18.00 delivered ($10 + $8 P&H)

Regarding eBay's profit, their percentage is on the total paid by the buyer, so whether a seller lists as $18 free post or $10 + $8.00, the FVF will be exactly the same. That also means pricing structures which help minimise what the buyer pays in turn minimise the FVF eBay gets. This really only comes into play with multiple purchases where postage can be discounted, and - now - single payments for all items, so that the invoiced amount is the lowest combined amount possible before the buyer pays.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

cmcoins2000 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:31:26 GMT

Sellers have been 'up in arms' with the idea of 'Free Postage' for months.

eBay in their collective wisdom have given China free reign.

The gov of China offers 'Free Postage' to encourage international trade.

Given - Aust Post - Australian Sellers cannot offer the same.

On numerous occasions eBay has been inundated with sellers asking for the more 'honest' option of 'Postage Included' which is what you are seeing.

eBay say quote ' more buyers will return if they see 'Free Postage'.

Absolute Rubbish.

In this country it is illegal to offer 'Free Postage' when the postage costs are recouped within the sale.

Do eBay care - obviously not - they do not have the seller in mind - and - in this important issue they certainly do not have the buyer in mind.

Seemingly they would prefer us - as sellers to lie - please note in my descriptions I have 'NO EXTRA CHARGE' the only way to deal honestly with my buyers.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

harley_babes_hoard — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:35:41 GMT

You should email your concerns to eBay themselves. They say it's what buyers want. We have to go along with their nonsense to remain visible in searches

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

cmcoins2000 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:35:56 GMT

I would really like to know what Australia Post charge China (the home of 'Free Postage) to deliver the miriad of cheap goods sent here.

Obviously have a deal - Australia Post - just suffered a staggering loss - perhaps it is delivering all that 'rubbish' free of charge from China.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

digital*ghost — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:43:31 GMT

@cmcoins2000 wrote:
I would really like to know what Australia Post charge China (the home of 'Free Postage) to deliver the miriad of cheap goods sent here.

Obviously have a deal - Australia Post - just suffered a staggering loss - perhaps it is delivering all that 'rubbish' free of charge from China.

They don't charge anything, they are signed on with the Universal Postal Union, which means each country keeps the amount charged for international mail, and the destination country's postal service delivers it at no extra charge.

What Australia Post do get are terminal dues, it doesn't cover the full cost of delivering international mail, but it's worked out as a percentage of incoming / outgoing mail between two countries. That means if there was an equal amount of mail sent and received between Aus and China, there would be no terminal dues paid to either. I think it's a given that there is significantly more mail coming in from China than is being sent there, so Aus Post would receive an amount based on the difference.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

cmcoins2000 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:48:52 GMT

Thank you.

Seems in that case it ain't enough.

Should reduce the 4 million the head honcho gets for adding 'gift lines' to Post Offices.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:58:52 GMT

Lets not forget the sellers that DO give free postage.

Sometimes when I'm in a good mood and the buyer is very nice, I will give free postage out of my profit.

And if they turn out to be nearby, I will even personally deliver it F.O.C.

Makes everyone feel happy and that flows onwards.

The way the world should work, me thinks.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

jensmanchester-australia — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:03:28 GMT

Helen - there is nothing illegal about businesses incorporating delivery costs into the selling price. It is business expense and is no different to any other expense a business takes into consideration when setting a selling price.

There are plenty of big independent websites which offer free shipping so free shipping is not a concept unique to eBay. There are also plenty who offer subsidised shipping which means they are probably including some of the shipping cost in the item price.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

ajarnjenny — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:30:11 GMT

The Chinese do pay postage, It is much less than ours because the standard of living there is so much lower.

They do not get it free.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

digital*ghost — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:32:51 GMT

@jensmanchester wrote:
Helen - there is nothing illegal about businesses incorporating delivery costs into the selling price.

It is, or can be, if it's advertised as "Free Postage", though, which is the major bone of contention on eBay in that a seller doesn't have a choice about how they advertise 'no more to pay'.

It comes under exactly the same regulations as other business practices, such as advertising an RRP that the item is never sold at and saying 50% off etc. Or doubling the price for a single item and then advertising "Buy one get one free".

A business can not advertise that something is "free" when it is not. If the price of something is inflated to account for the cost of the supposedly free thing, it's not allowed.

But exclusively online businesses can hide that practice a lot better than other businesses can, when it comes to postage costs, anyway.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

davewil1964 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:04:10 GMT

@attic-case wrote:

Thank you fixnwear, No, you are correct. Think maybe things got a bit mixed here. Yes, ALL SELLERS should pass on the actual cost of the postage, infact l would even pay a bit extra to assist with the packaging. The point you bring up is more than fair, a Buyer has the right to know the cost of p&h, plus the cost of said item. Only fair.

Maybe yes have Seller say item is $35.00 includes Postage. On the invoice qoute item xxx $25.00 Postage $10.00

Would this help ????

Wrong.

A buyer has the right to know what the item will cost them, delivered. Full stop.

Do you query a B&M on freight costs? Or an online seller that you buy from ex-eBay?

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

polly.the.cat — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:22:00 GMT

Why is it wrong ? davewill. If you are selling a said item and it is $25.00 with $65.00 for Delivery, AP, Courier, Road Transport etc, etc, How will the Buyer know how much to pay for Postage/Delivery Costs. So are you saying it is $90 Delivery Incuded ???

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

davewil1964 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:32:56 GMT

@attic-case wrote:

Why is it wrong ? davewill. If you are selling a said item and it is $25.00 with $65.00 for Delivery, AP, Courier, Road Transport etc, etc, How will the Buyer know how much to pay for Postage/Delivery Costs. So are you saying it is $90 Delivery Incuded ???

Yes.

Which the buyer will see before they bid/buy.

Either as a postage included [free] price, or a price + postage cost.

The bottom line is what it costs you, the buyer. The postage cost as a factor of your buy price is none of your business. You are paying a $ amount for the item to be delivered to you. If you are happy with that you buy. If you're not you don't.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

polly.the.cat — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:41:23 GMT

I have had a look as you suggested and l think that l know where you are coming from. Said item from Seller is $29.95 Delivery Included. Buyer pays you $29.95 total, end of story. Buyer DOES NOT NEED TO KNOW THE ACTUAL SHIPPING $ factor, as in reality, it has nothing to do with them. Buyer has agreed to the $29.95 FINAL.

Do l have it right now davewill ??? ebay will take "their" slice out of the $29.95, correct ?? thank you davewill.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

cmcoins2000 — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 22:48:08 GMT

Exactly.

It cannot be falsley advertised.

Re: What really is FREE POSTAGE ?

lane-ends — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 01:08:15 GMT

Sellers offer items delivered to your door for a postage inclusive price, inline with common business practice. As the delivery cost is unavoidable there is nothing wrong with this.

Ebay in their wisdom have decided to misreprent this as free post as a marketing ploy. Sellers have no say in Ebays marketing ploy.

If it causes a problem complain about the wording to ebay and stop deluding yourself that shipping cost nothing.

Seperating it out only has the benefit of accomodating pick up items and combined post discounts. Of course it helps buyers convince themselves (and thier partners) that they paid less than they did,