topic Can I have some clarification please? in Buying

Can I have some clarification please?

wmdsch — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 01:06:11 GMT

some sellers list for instance "Thermos" flasks (Registered Brand) when the item is a 'thermos' (generic term) but not a 'Thermos'. is this considered misleading?

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

cq_tech — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 01:09:15 GMT

Almost certainly. Unless it is a genuine Thermos brand flask, they should be listed only as vacuum flasks.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

go-tazz — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 01:58:21 GMT

As Thermos is a generic term for a variety of items and most people use it as a term for any vacuum flask I

would think that any seller should be allowed to use it.

As long as they clearly show photos and description,(including the name of their item if visible).

This is eBay and they have their own set of rules so it might be best to ask them,(then hope you get the correct

answer).

I have always called them a Thermos and have never owned a Thermos branded one,(it's a bit like Aussie slang

the eBay bots/reps have no idea and might let some stand and remove others).

At present there are 2,850 results for thermos and 711 are for flasks.

There is a big mixture in regards to brands so who knows,

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

harley_babes_hoard — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 02:14:10 GMT

I agree with go tazz.. It's a generic term for an insulated flask.

Just google thermos and look at all the different brands. Now if they are saying it is a thermos brand and it not then that is misleading.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 06:57:07 GMT

While technically it is a brand name it has become widely used as a generic term just like biro and hoover. If somebody wanted to be super mean they could probably report a seller and ebay may just remove it but I would not expect good kama if they did.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

cq_tech — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:03:53 GMT

The registered owners of the "Thermos" brand are perfectly legally entitled to demand that anybody using that term to sell a generic vacuum flask either edit their listing or remove it altogether. The same thing applies to people selling generic coolers. Unless they are a genuine "Esky" brand, it is a breach of copyright to use that name in their listings.

Just because every man and his dog is currently doing it doesn't make it right, and if the registered owners of those iconic brand names decide to exercise their legal rights, there are going to be an awful lot of listings being hastily revised under the threat of prosecution.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

harley_babes_hoard — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:22:21 GMT

I won't post it here but it does explain that it has lost it's trademark as a result of it being a generic term. whether it applies to australia I'm guessing so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

harley_babes_hoard — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:25:56 GMT

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/trademarked-brands-that-everyone-uses-as-generic-names-2012-6?op=1#thermos-5

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

digital*ghost — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:27:13 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
The registered owners of the "Thermos" brand are perfectly legally entitled to demand that anybody using that term to sell a generic vacuum flask either edit their listing or remove it altogether. The same thing applies to people selling generic coolers. Unless they are a genuine "Esky" brand, it is a breach of copyright to use that name in their listings.

Just because every man and his dog is currently doing it doesn't make it right, and if the registered owners of those iconic brand names decide to exercise their legal rights, there are going to be an awful lot of listings being hastily revised under the threat of prosecution.

This actually depends on circumstances - in the case of 'Thermos', while technically it is a registered trademark, it's classified as "genericised", which actually means they've lost their legal status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks

EDIT: harley beat me to it.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

cq_tech — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:14:31 GMT

That may well apply to Thermos, but I don't think Coleman would let you get away with flogging generic coolers under their name, if the following is any indication. From their web site... Esky® is The Number One cooler in Australia. Many imitate, many try and call themselves an Esky®, but there is only one Esky®. Their use of the symbol makes it quite clear that the term "Esky" is a registered trade mark.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

cherry*135 — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:45:42 GMT

Thermos still a valid trade mark in Australia

"Thermos (originally a trade mark of Thermos GmbH; declared generic in the US in 1963; still a valid trade mark in Australia);

Cullens Patent and Trade Mark Attorneys"

http://www.cullens.com.au/news-events/ideas-into-assets-r-blog/brand-aid-proactive-better-than-reactive/

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

the_pooze — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:14:01 GMT

............and just to throw a little grammatical fuel on to the fire of this discussion it would also depend on where in the sentence the word appeared.

"Thermos flask for sale" would be correct for either the genuine article or a generic version.

"Selling a Thermos flask" would only be correct for the genuine article.

Yes, yes, I can hear you all already, I can spell "smart-asre" (I'm just not allowed to spell it correctly on the forum)

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

digital*ghost — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:59:26 GMT

@am*3 wrote:
Thermos still a valid trade mark in Australia

"Thermos (originally a trade mark of Thermos GmbH; declared generic in the US in 1963; still a valid trade mark in Australia);

Cullens Patent and Trade Mark Attorneys"

http://www.cullens.com.au/news-events/ideas-into-assets-r-blog/brand-aid-proactive-better-than-reactive/

Yes, but if they don't police the use of the trademark and enforce their legal rights, they are contributing to the genericisation of the trademark .

I'm not saying people should be using a registered trademark etc, but the company who owns it doesn't just have to pay to register it, they have to actively enforce and protect it in order to be able to maintain it.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

modestbods — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 00:20:43 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
The registered owners of the "Thermos" brand are perfectly legally entitled to demand that anybody using that term to sell a generic vacuum flask either edit their listing or remove it altogether. The same thing applies to people selling generic coolers. Unless they are a genuine "Esky" brand, it is a breach of copyright to use that name in their listings.

Just because every man and his dog is currently doing it doesn't make it right, and if the registered owners of those iconic brand names decide to exercise their legal rights, there are going to be an awful lot of listings being hastily revised under the threat of prosecution.

An enlightened & forward thinking company might not be so quick to rush in to prevent others using their brand/trademark in a generic sense. They might just appreciate & understand the positive implications that having their brand used to genericise an entire type of product provides for them, ie. they will always remain the market leader in that type of product, and only they can legitimately claim to be the 'original' or áuthentic'. It's the type of positive exposure for their company & their authentic original product that no amount of money thrown at advertising could ever hope to bring them. Why would they choose to kill their golden goose?

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

cq_tech — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 02:14:51 GMT

I suppose it depends upon how much they value their brand. For example, if you were the CEO of Thermos and went into a shop and asked to buy a genuine Thermos flask, how would you feel if the shop assistant tried to sell you a generic brand of vacuum flask, especially if they then told you that the generics were every bit as good as the originals but a whole lot cheaper (which is completely untrue)?

Have you ever been to a Pizza Hut and asked for a Coke? All of their sales staff have been instructed to point out to the customer that they don't sell Coke, but can let you have a Pepsi instead. This became mandatory after Coca Cola sent several reps into Pizza Huts and specifically asked for Cokes but were served Pepsi without being advised that Pizza Hut didn't sell Coke. They were subsequently prosecuted and had to pay substantial fines for misleading the public.

Any large corporation with half a brain will actively protect their most iconic money-making brand names at all costs, rather than allowing their competitors to become wealthy at their expense, just as Coca Cola did with Pizza Hut several years ago, and it surprises me that Thermos doesn't act exactly the same way.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

horizon1907 — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 03:59:02 GMT

Makes me think of Biro. May I use your Ballpoint pen ? 🙂

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

lyndal1838 — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 05:48:41 GMT

If you had ever had dealings with the Australian agents for Thermos you would know why the trade mark is not actively policed in Australia.

They really don't care about anything much, including customer service.

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

modestbods — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 07:36:44 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
and it surprises me that Thermos doesn't act exactly the same way.

Sorry to spoil the fun, but this might explain it...

"Thermos" remains a registered trademark in some countries but was declared a genericized trademark in the US in 1963 since it is colloquially synonymous with vacuum flasks in general." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_flask)

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

cq_tech — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 17:45:42 GMT

I bet you wouldn't get away with selling generic coolers as Eskys though. 😉

Re: Can I have some clarification please?

modestbods — Sun, 12 Oct 2014 06:37:02 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
I bet you wouldn't get away with selling generic coolers as Eskys though. 😉

Perhaps, at least not without Colemans permission, but I could still sell them as eskys if I wanted to.

The term 'esky' has become a genericized trademark in Australia, being used colloquially to refer to any type of cooler. However, the use of the Esky trademark must be approved by the brand owner to avoid any liability.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esky)