topic Re: Am I right!!! in Buying

Am I right!!!

millyminder — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:57:45 GMT

I am buying a fire fighting pump for the fire season I have looked at the ones for sale & all have a warranty but state that you have to pay all shipping costs (under Aust laws) for all repairs. Now if I buy this next week & it genuinely mucks up can I say I don't want it repaired ( then I would have to pay shipping costs, not cheap from the country) & I want my money back under the paypal 180 day guarantee & if they want it back then they would have to pay costs. Not fair for the seller but is this how it is going to work.

Re: Am I right!!!

kopenhagen5 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:18:49 GMT

To be honest, that is something I would want working when it's needed.

Hence I would fork out the extra dollars to get a good one, even if it meant an extra 500 or so.

The peace of mind alone would be worth the extra.

Warranties from sellers on ebay are often not honoured so better to go to a B&M store where you will get a genuine warranty and after sale service.

Even if you want a refund through PayPal you will still be required to return the item and via registered ot trackable for proof of postage to the address PayPal specify.

Re: Am I right!!!

bigbrickshop — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:27:56 GMT

From what I've read, PayPal only covers Not as Described for items based on the condition at time of receipt, not for warranty issues after a period of use.

This is not really clear though on the PayPal website.

Re: Am I right!!!

bigbrickshop — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:29:24 GMT

From the PayPal User Agreement

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#Schedule_1_PayPal_Seller_and_Buyer_Protection_Policies

Significantly not as described

S11.1 An item may be considered “significantly not as described” if:

The item is completely different to that represented by the seller at the point of sale;
The condition of the item is significantly different to how it was described;
The item is unusable and was not disclosed as such. (Note, this applies to the item in its received state.);
The item is not authentic and was not disclosed as such; or
The item is missing a major portion or quantity.

S11.2 An item is not considered to be “significantly not as described” if:

It was reasonably and prominently described at the seller’s point of sale;
The description could have been reasonably misinterpreted by you or the seller. For example, if the item is a different colour than advertised (eg, the item is aquamarine but was advertised as teal);
The item did not meet your expectations; or
It has minor scratches but was listed as “in used condition.”

S11.3 We reserve our right to make a decision if you and the seller cannot agree and we will exercise our sole discretion when determining a claim of “significantly not as described.” We will consider numerous factors which may include the communications between you and the seller and any documentation you have provided. We will provide you with reasons for our decision upon request.

Re: Am I right!!!

bigbrickshop — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:34:42 GMT

And as far as I'm aware, nothing is changing about buyers having to pay return shipping costs for claims under PayPal Buyer Protection.

eBay's Money Back Guarantee is different though. Buyers will have 30 days from date of receipt of the item to open a Request and sellers will have to pay return shipping for SNAD items.

Re: Am I right!!!

redders_60 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:55:50 GMT

Further to the above reply by Kopenhagen... I agree with what was said there.

To your OP....You are probably not right... Sorry! You need to do your research & find a local supplier, or ask your local CFA or RFS, whatever they are called in your state. They know local conditions. Buying this type of item online could be a big mistake.

I assume you want to defend your home to the best of your ability? What price do you put on your family's safety? I'd go & buy a Davey, Honda or similar demountable pump from a local retailer, diesel or petrol powered, not electrical, as that's the first power source that goes out in a bush fire. Then you will get a warranty, service when needed & a lot of advice.

I'd fit some fire hoses & nozzles that attach to the pump (there are usually 2 outlets), brass nozzles on the hoses & foot valve suction hose (that bit you drop into the water source), & the longest fire hoses you can afford. Then I'd mount them all on a mobile trolley. For hand use over rough terrain the undercarriage of an old Victa lawnmower is great & can be hauled by 1 person - even a woman. You need to take care in the hose coiling, so all rolls out smoothly in an emergency. Old bike wheels look silly on your homemade trolley, but with tyres removed large ones make great hose reels!

I'd also ensure there was a creek, dam, pool, or other fairly clean of reasonable depth all year round water source for you to drop the sump pump hose end & foot valve in. Check your pump regularly. Native mud nest wasp nests can foul the air intake flukes on many rural pumps. Best to cover in a tarp in the non fire season for storage.

I speak from experience. Ninks Rd St Andrews North (edge of Kinglake National Park) 2009 bushfires. It has taken me ages to type this; I hope you take it on board!

The little cart idea was designed for a woman; As I was often home alone & am female & not too sprightly anymore!

Re: Am I right!!!

lozyginns — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:58:37 GMT

Hey, due to what your after I would not even think about buying it from EBAY, you will find out how much new rubish is out there, nothing would be worse than watching a fire come your way and your cheap chinese quality control regect packs it in after 10 minutes of running, I dont think you will be worried about warrenty then. Go see your local tool or pump dealer, SYDNEY AREA HAS PLENTY, IF YOUR RURAL MAYBE NEAREST TOWN OR CAPITAL. SOME ONE LIKE TOTAL TOOLS, PENRITH TOOL BOX, ETC.

They will sell chinese ones but ones that passed quality control, if youve got the coin to spend try a HONDA[super reliable] which is the important thing when there is fire.

Good luck

Re: Am I right!!!

horizon1907 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:03:41 GMT

Couldn't agree more. Go to your local CFA or RFS and find out what they would recommend for your sutuation. Forget about ebay and go to a B& M store. Pay out the $$$ that are needed for your safety.

Re: Am I right!!!

redders_60 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:17:47 GMT

I'm concerned that the OP is worrying about warranties! When really the focus should be on type of pump for the job, whether you can handle it & get to it & use it in an emergency, (regular maintenance notwithstanding - which is why I mentioned the mud wasps, a little known factor in pump failure!)

This is really one item that should be purchased locally & never on ebay. Electric pumps are useless where the power supply is overhead on wooden poles!

I understand that sometimes money is tight when living rurally, but the last thing you want to skimp on is fire protection. You cannot rely on authorities to help you in such a crisis. Helping yourself may be the difference between life & death. A good fire plan (& a good fire pump) may make that difference!

Re: Am I right!!!

dylan11235813 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:17:57 GMT

Generally I think you have to send an item back. Is it a just a pump or specifically for fire fighting? I think there would be customs rules for protective type items.

Also I don't think anyone is allowed to send broken items in the post, so I think they have to pay.

Re: Am I right!!!

lyndal1838 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:24:48 GMT

Dylan, the OP has specified a fire fighting pump which is why the posters have been giving her such good advice....don't buy on ebay.

And where do you get the idea that broken items cannot be posted? Not that I think the OP would be able to post a fire fighting pump if it was boken. Somehow I think it would be outside AP's weight/size limits.

Re: Am I right!!!

redders_60 — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 08:04:35 GMT

Thank You Lyndal! My worry was the OP's title line, & the fact that it was a fire fighting pump she was wanting to buy online. A critical piece of equipment. & that she hasn't been back since making the post.

My first thought was that the OP must be new to rural living, maybe on a tight budget, & not fully understand how devastating & quickly moving a bushfire can be!

Let's be reasonable here; You can't fight a bushfire with a garden hose; You can't maintain a rural acreage property with a suburban lawnmower! Some elderly TreeChangers or young idealists go into this scenario without knowing the full impact of their choice of residence.

I'd add a gravity fed concrete or metal water tank to my above list of items to which a pump can be connected. I didn't need to use it, but it was there. I'd worry about these newer style PVC type water tanks, they are only for suburban gardens IMHO.

Re: Am I right!!!

millyminder — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 08:59:18 GMT

Thanks Folks for your imput but the ? was regarding warranty I have lived on a rural property for 20 yrs & have 4 fire fighting pumps 2 High quality ones I have had for 10 yrs & 2 Chinese ebay ones working well for 3 yrs but decided to buy another cheapy for a spare for the bushfire season ( whats $200 for an emergency) When you read the terms & conditions of the seller will they have to change their listing details for the new return policy or leave as is with THEIR conditions Thanks again.

Re: Am I right!!!

digital*ghost — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:37:30 GMT

@millyminder wrote:
Thanks Folks for your imput but the ? was regarding warranty

As bigbrisckshop posted, PayPal's new policies don't enforce or uphold warranties - they technically cover the goods in their received condition, so if you use it for a couple of months, it works fine then needs repair or replacement, I wouldn't rely on PayPal to get a refund.

At this point it time, it's all theoretical, though - it's difficult to say how these kinds of cases will play out, or if there will be any kind of consistency or predicable outcomes in certain circumstances.

I would say this 'clause', if you will, in PayPal's 180 day policy etc, is due to the fact that under Aus consumer laws, a buyer doesn't necessarily have the right to a refund on an item, even if under warranty (it depends on the nature or extent of the fault, really, in some cases the seller is within their rights to refuse a refund, but must still offer a remedy such as a repair or replacement, and it's not really PayPal's place to get involved in warranty claims). Plus, if at any time you view an action as "unfair to the seller", perhaps that's the time to think twice about doing it. 😉 😛 (Not suggesting anyone forgo their own rights of course, just suggesting to respect everyone's).

Re: Am I right!!!

northwestnsw — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:48:41 GMT

Psst........If your house is worth $100,000 but you insured it for $500,000 then yep, buy the ebay one!

Re: Am I right!!!

lenalookout — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 20:59:10 GMT

Funny how a ? on warranty has turned into a fire fighting discussion ( should have just said a large item!!). What now concerns me is the negativity about the cheap pumps. In the reall world we all would like expensive items but some cannot afford them & this discussion may turn some off from buying something that will still do the job in an emergency. The last one I had lastest 4 yrs, was still going but the inlet flange corroded & broke off I have 2 others on their 3rd season ( about 40 hrs all up) & they started on the 2nd pull after the winter break & another water transfer one runs for 5 hrs at a time & is fine.. Sure the quality is not there but they are better than nothing in an emergency The older ones had **bleep**py spark plugs but are better now.. So if you can't afford an expensive one buy a cheap one, better than nothing, Just keep it fueled up, start it a couple of times a week ( as i do all my pumps) to make sure you are ready in an emergency..

Re: Am I right!!!

millyminder — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:12:11 GMT

I really appreciate your concern. I am a HE not a SHE. & was a professional fire fighter for years & have seen the devastating result of fires Believe me I have the best setup one could have Roof sprinklers run by a generator, all pumps permanately connected to 4 different water supplies. Funny how my question got so many replies about fire fighting but not answering the ? Once again I feel for anyone caught up in bush fires & sincerely thank you for your concern

Re: Am I right!!!

i-love-my-sheep — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 00:43:29 GMT

If your buy the item and it doesn't work when you first try it, then you are covered by the PayPal agreement as it's not as described. If you buy the item, use it a few times, then it breaks, you are not covered because you received it as described and working when you received it. You would then have to use the warranty with the manufacturer.