topic Re: SHILL BIDDING in Buying

SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 04:39:31 GMT

How difficult is it to prove shill bidding? I have been bidding on items, all listed in the same category, and all listed by the same seller. The opening prices are all rediculously low and the first bid is nearly always made by the same id - nothing wrong with that I suppose - Three or for bids are made, very early in the auction and again, all by the same ids. A few mins before closing time I will make my bid and straight away I am outbid, more than likely by a sniping tool, and all too often by an id that has a very high % of dealing with the seller. I have compared all the bidding ids and found that they all have high %ages with this seller - one has 100% with a total of winning transactions in excess of 100, another has 65% for 40 something transactions. A few days after the closure of the auction an identical listing is made of the same item by the same seller ........? Am I paranoid about sniping tools or is this possibly shill bidding? Would EB investigate this sort of information - or simply do Zip?

Re: SHILL BIDDING

horizon1907 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 04:54:06 GMT

What is the item Number ? Do not give out the seller ID.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

dithommo — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:05:51 GMT

I have notice similar patterns on numerous occaisions, I often bid on a popular 2nd hand item when ever it appears as an auction (occaisionally I will buy it now if a reasonable price). I would often make an early opening bid and then set a max bid about $5 lower than my final amount that I am prepared to pay. If the ending time of the item is convieniant for me (I am a working class slave) I will watch last few minutes of auction. Even if my max bid has not been exceeded by another bidder I will increase my max bid by approx $5 with about 30 seconds to go. Sometimes it works to catch out a shill bidder - recon I have beaten a couple at thier own game recently. The other issue would be that if some one was looking at the same item and tracking my bidding you may well think I am a shill bidder (note I am saying it might appear, I certainily get as peeved as you). For the most part whilst it is annoying they will still have to pay the eBay fees on the total sale price with postage unless they cancel the sale which would make it even easier to track the recalcitrant seller/bidder.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:09:30 GMT

Thanks Horizon - a more recent number 141513675860.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

horizon1907 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:24:03 GMT

Going by what I see, I would avoid anyway. Take a closer look at what they say in repies re NEG. Just my opinion.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

horizon1907 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:34:42 GMT

+ there are a few to many Bid Retractions from a couple that would ring alarm bells. Again, my opinion only.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:47:23 GMT

Thanks again H - I did look at the negs, sometime back and rather briefly. I have had another good look now and see what you mean. Interesting that one of his negs seems to have sumasaulted to be an "excellent " buyer during Dec.Although in all fairness Im not altogether sure that I know how those secret ids work and it may not be the same person - just someone sharing the same *** Your opinion is appreciated.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

kopenhagen5 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:49:59 GMT

Aside, sniping tools usually bid in the dying seconds of an auction. That defeats a shiller.

Shill bidding usually happens when someone pushes up the auction at the begining giving the buyer a chance to bid again.

Sniping tools are often used so shillers don't have time to nibble bid up the price.

If an account has all of the following, I suspect shilling, otherwise it often appears as shilling but isn't.

1. High percentage of bids with one seller.

2. If those bids are on totally unrelated items and rare that one bidder would bid on those different types.

3. More then 2-3 retractions.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

horizon1907 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:51:34 GMT

Id's are alway like that. Only the seller can see them. I think it's up to you if you wish to buy.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:59:05 GMT

Kopenhagen - thanks for your input. I agree with all you say however, if a seller hasn't reached his (undisclosed) reserve and doesn't want to quit his item then shill bidding, to an amount he is willing to sell at, would achieve an outcome the seller would be happy with.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

chameleon54 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 06:11:52 GMT

It looks a lot like shill bidding to me although we mere mortals are not in a position to prove or disprove it. You could phone ebay customer service and report your suspicians. Ebay will act if they can prove a connection between the accounts concerned, but experienced shill bidders, know the rules and how to avoid detection. In these cases ebay will not act. I have given up reporting shill bidding as it is rare to see any action from ebay.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 06:25:39 GMT

That's what I expected to hear, from other posts here on the discussion board relating to all sorts of topics, I have formed the opinion that EB are reluctant to do anything more than receive money. I have also formed the opinion that I should talk to the people here on the board and hold my own court as to how I should procede with suspect sellers. Thanks for your interest.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

cezm — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 08:09:34 GMT

Looking at 14 of the other listings with bids, there seem to be quite a number of different bidders buying from a number of different sellers of knives. I could only see a couple of bidders that had bid on more than one of the current auctions.

If these knives are collectibles I think it would be reasonable for a buyer to bid on a number of them ... but I could well be missing something!

Re: SHILL BIDDING

lyndal1838 — Fri, 02 Jan 2015 11:36:42 GMT

@skyrider12-au wrote:
Kopenhagen - thanks for your input. I agree with all you say however, if a seller hasn't reached his (undisclosed) reserve and doesn't want to quit his item then shill bidding, to an amount he is willing to sell at, would achieve an outcome the seller would be happy with.

You have no idea how shill bidding works.....it is not the idea for the seller to win the item but to just increase the bid. It is not done at the end of the auction but during the course of the bidding.

The shiller slowly increases the bidding rather than placing a large bid and hoping others will try to catch up.

If the shiller actually wins the item then they have failed in what they have set out to do.

In the last 6 weeks or so I have had most of my bids with one Australian seller....I could very easily be accused of shill bidding. The only difference between me and a shiller is that I am bidding to win, never retract a bid and pay for everything.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 03:00:17 GMT

O.K I really don''t know how shill bidding works but I would expect that anybody who is prone to do such a thing would be bidding at the end to achive the outcome expected (ie, either get to a price that is acceptable OR retain the item,rather than sell it well below what is expected. Is that a reasonable assumption or have I got that wrong also?

Re: SHILL BIDDING

lyndal1838 — Sat, 03 Jan 2015 06:17:14 GMT

Yes, you have it wrong.

It is not the idea for the shiller to win the item as the seller has to pay the fees. It would get a bit expensive for the seller is they keep winning their own items.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

s.h.o.n.n.a — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:17:14 GMT

Many eBay buyers are unaware of 'automatic bidding' (which is great if you are a buyer after some bargains and no one else knows how to bid properly!! 🙂 I am a seller (as well as a buyer) and have just created a user guide on this topic;

http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/How-to-Bid-Automatically-/10000000204665525/g.html

Re: SHILL BIDDING

k1ooo-slr-sales — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:53:41 GMT

wildflower, just sent you a PM

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:20:56 GMT

Thanks sir - love it when flowers talk to me.

Re: SHILL BIDDING

skyrider12-au — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:28:49 GMT

Sorry sir'I went looking for the pm - of course I didn't find it so returned to your post and read it properly this time - Oh well .... perhaps a flower might talk to me some other time.