topic Re: shill bidders in Buying

shill bidders

gardengnome84 — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:21:04 GMT

If I come across these people as I believe I have recently, How can I best prove it and then stick it to them.

Strange that in all the years I've been bidding it was'nt until I started buying photographic gear that I think I have seen it.

Re: shill bidders

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:31:22 GMT

If you suspect shilling, every listing has a report link and let ebay look at it.

I don't suspect shilling unless all 3 of the following occur. (Can still happen outside of these)

1. High percentage of bids with same seller

2. Same bidders are bidding on unrelated items from same seller

3. High number of bid retractions

Re: shill bidders

lyndal1838 — Mon, 27 Jul 2015 02:47:23 GMT

It is very unlikely that you can prove shill bidding, especially if the shiller is good.

And you need to be a bit more sure of your facts than believing/thinking you have seen it. Just remember....mud sticks.

If you accuse a member of something as serious as shill bidding you need to be very sure of your facts.

Re: shill bidders

4myson2003 — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 06:36:38 GMT

Well said lyndal1835..!!..Cant believe people jump to conclusions like that...

@lyndal1838 wrote:
It is very unlikely that you can prove shill bidding, especially if the shiller is good.

And you need to be a bit more sure of your facts than believing/thinking you have seen it. Just remember....mud sticks.
If you accuse a member of something as serious as shill bidding you need to be very sure of your facts.

Re: shill bidders

netdragon4 — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 04:23:38 GMT

Yes, shill bidding is a big problem. I have just bid on some jewellery and had 14 bid retractions and found I had the lot. Now reported as one minute I had no wins with one particular buyer (in India) and then the next minute I had a further 7 to pay for as all seven had bid retractions. not that I mind a reasonable price but I only bid on the next lot of jewellery because my previous bids were all outbid. This is a real problem as I had other things I had bid on and had to pay for those, not a problem, but now .....!!!!

Re: shill bidders

lyndal1838 — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 04:43:31 GMT

You should not bid on the next item until the auction has finished and you are sure you have not won.

As long as the auction ends and you are not the winner you are free to bid on the next item.....if the winner does not go ahead and the seller offers you a 2nd chance you do not have to accept but if the winner retracts their bid before the end then you are stuck with paying.

Re: shill bidders

netdragon4 — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 05:40:03 GMT

I know I will have to buy the items I bid on but retractions for 14 items is definitely shill bidding....which is not condoned on ebay......some on my other ID too, and as the bidders are hidden with 'private listing' it was a shock to say the least.

Re: shill bidders

lyndal1838 — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 06:28:40 GMT

If you don't want the items you could always try reporting the listings to ebay as shill bidding. If ebay agree they will remove the listings and you won't have to pay.

Unfortunately Private Listings are frequently hiding shill bidding, particularly in Asian countries.

If you want to avoid shill bidding just place one bid of the aount you are prepared to pay for the item as close as possible to the end of the auction. I usually place my bids in the last 5-10 seconds. The shiller does not have time to force your bids up.

Re: shill bidders

wendshees-rocks — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 06:39:08 GMT

I'm a last second bidder too for that reason. If I know I can't bid at the last second, e.g. I'm at work, then I put in my maximum bid before I leave. If I win, well and good. If I don't, it went for more than I was prepared to pay.

Re: shill bidders

springyzone — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 07:08:29 GMT

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Yes, I have had bad experiences too.

Had one item I bid back and forth on, with one other buyer, only to be outbid.

I walked away, only to find a few days later that I was the winner as the other person withdrew their bid over 24 hours after bidding.

Unfair.

What it does is push the price up unfairly. I know people say only bid what you are prepared to pay but it leaves a bad feeling in your mouth when you have this sort of thing happen and you suspect shilling. The seller should set a min price they are prepared to pay rather than do it by deceit.

I'm glad you reported them. Personally I would not be paying for the suspect wins & I would be telling the seller why.

Re: shill bidders

lyndal1838 — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 08:11:37 GMT

Springy, if someone else won the auction they cannot retract their bid after the auction ends. If they do not pay the seller can offer a 2nd chance, but you are not obliged to accept it.

You do not automatically become the winner when a winner does not pay.

Re: shill bidders

springyzone — Sat, 01 Aug 2015 21:00:06 GMT

The person who had bid and bid against me then retracted did so over 24 hours after their last bid, but before the end of the auction, which is how I came to find myself a winner.

I was really annoyed because when I checked out what comes up with retracting a bid, it had a drop down menu of reasons eg wrong amount entered', and said that after retracting an incorrect bid, a buyer then had to enter the correct amount.

Well, that other bidder's reason was listed as 'wrong amount entered', yet they had not amended their bid. They didn't want to, I suppose, because they had only outbid me by about a dollar so whatever they entered would still have been leading. So it wasn't they had bid an incorrect amount, it was just they expected me to outbid again & I hadn't.

What annoyed me was I felt I had been suckered & that all their other bids were probably bogus too.

It's hard to explain, because I know people will say oh well, you did bid that amount, but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth when it happens and I have to admit I was shocked as I had checked that auction for 2 days after I was outbid, simply to see how it was going, and it stayed the same, & then I didn't go back on ebay for several days, came back and was shocked to find I had an item listed as won/unpaid for.

I notice that nowadays ebay put a message up after bidding that 'you may still be the winner' etc but I don't think they did back in those days.

In my opinion, that is one policy they should change. If a leading bid is retracted more than 30 minutes after having been made, and no higher bids are placed, then I think the second placed bidder should not be obliged to go ahead, it should become a second chance offer.

The way it is at present is a person could bid and be outbid on day one & they are expected to keep an eye on that auction for up to another 9 or 10 days, in case that leading bidder withdraws eg 13 hours before end of auction.

It's unreasonable & I just don't think most buyers work that way.

Ebay should follow their own policies anyway and not allow retractions for incorrect amount entered unless the person then immediately places a bid with correct amount.

Re: shill bidders

*tippy*toes* — Sun, 02 Aug 2015 02:18:07 GMT

Some people will bid a high amount to see what the current high bidders maximun bid is. Nothing to do with the seller or shilling, just someone who wants to know how much your high bid is. The entered wrong amount option is not enforced in any way. I think you can report buyers that do that often, but whether eBay does anything about it is anyone's guess.