topic Re: shrill bidding in Buying

shrill bidding

gimegimeyogo — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:03:32 GMT

I have noticed a diamond jewellery seller is regularly using other accounts to pump up the auction price. I have reported them to Ebay via the normal Report Item tab many times over the past months but this seller still gets to sell. What is the point in reporting them if Ebay continues to ignore and allow this seller to basically defraud buyers??

Re: shrill bidding

kopenhagen5 — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 06:48:59 GMT

eBay may have sent warnings.

Or if they can`t find evidence such as same IP address, same phone prefix area etc. and a few other methods they use, eBay can`t act.

Some of the listings I looked at appear suss but could also be genuine bidders.

Shilling accounts will often also have a lot of bid retractions.

Re: shrill bidding

gimegimeyogo — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 07:24:00 GMT

The seller uses the same 3 or 4 accounts - they all have 90-100% bidding with the seller items. When they win the item, it is then relisted a couple of weeks later by the seller. What more proof does Ebay need?? And I investigate this without having the identities as Ebay does!!

IP addresses can be useless if the account is going through a separate modem or the seller has a VPN - easy and cost effective to set up - around $150 and makes IP addresses totally useless. I do know what I am talking about - Ebay is either very lazy or incompetent in this situation as the seller continues the same processes and buyers are being defrauded!!

Re: shrill bidding

davewil1964 — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 07:33:57 GMT

I'm not sure what your issue is with high pitched voices. i wasn't aware that eBay bidding was verbal, but just turn the sound off if it bothers you.

Every one they win results in them paying the fees to eBay, so it would seem to be a non-productive exercise if what you state is true.

Re: shrill bidding

gimegimeyogo — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 07:40:25 GMT

Yes - shill bidding - so much better - no longer hurts the ears!!

Fraud is fraud whether Ebay pics up fees for each auction or not! Some buyers can be out of pockets $100s of dollars.

Fraud is rampant on Ebay in the jewellery section. Lots of sellers selling fraudulently hallmarked jewellery from Asia - hallmarked solid gold but it is actually plated. The general punter wouldnt know the difference until they wear the item for an extended period and by then it is too late!! Ebay does nothing about it!!

Re: shrill bidding

davewil1964 — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:30:11 GMT

The solution is the same as for electronics.

Buy from a real store. or at least a company registered in Australia and subject to Australian law.

if something seems to be too good to be true, it generally is.

I certainly wouldn't (eg) expect to buy a 1ct diamond ring for less than a grand. if I won an auction for one for less than that, I would certainly expect to get CZ and/or plated gold.

it is unrealistic to expect sellers to sell for less than market value. eBay is no longer a pseudo garage sale where you can get valuable stuff for cents because the seller doesn't know the value of their wares.

Re: shrill bidding

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:52:49 GMT

If the seller is winning items then they are not very good shillers, the idea is to up the selling price not to lose a buyer by winning. It is very easy to avoid paying more than you need, don't bid early and never bid more than you think the item is worth. If you do that you are either winning an item at a price you are happy with or you miss the bus but never fear, another will be along any minute.

Re: shrill bidding

gimegimeyogo — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:49:10 GMT

I think you all are missing the mark here. This seller shill bids to a level whereby he is happy to sell. If this works in half the trades then he/she is well in front and the buyers are being screwed half the time paying an inflated price. I have been buying and selling jewellery on Ebay for years. The reason the bargain line has dried up is because there are less and less Mun and Dad sellers on ebay these days. It has become an environment for retailers and wholesalers to turn over their obsolete old stock or develop an optional cashflow market. Ebay loves it because they are only interested in turnover dollars. The more sold, the more they make. They have changed the payment environment totally since their acquisition of Paypal and now make another 1-2% commission out of every trade in addition to increasing selling commission fees 400% over 8 years. It's just business, we all know that. What is unfair are sellers that artificially inflate auction prices by employing tactics such as shill bidding!!

Re: shrill bidding

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 01:14:00 GMT

@gimegimeyogo wrote:
I think you all are missing the mark here. This seller shill bids to a level whereby he is happy to sell. If this works in half the trades then he/she is well in front and the buyers are being screwed half the time paying an inflated price. I have been buying and selling jewellery on Ebay for years. The reason the bargain line has dried up is because there are less and less Mun and Dad sellers on ebay these days. It has become an environment for retailers and wholesalers to turn over their obsolete old stock or develop an optional cashflow market. Ebay loves it because they are only interested in turnover dollars. The more sold, the more they make. They have changed the payment environment totally since their acquisition of Paypal and now make another 1-2% commission out of every trade in addition to increasing selling commission fees 400% over 8 years. It's just business, we all know that. What is unfair are sellers that artificially inflate auction prices by employing tactics such as shill bidding!!

Ebay cut ties with PayPal last year some time.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that there is not shill bidding going on with the seller you are referring to, however, even if they are doing it and it's only working in half the trades, they are still quite pathetic at it. If they were genuinely shilling, then the bid for the shilling account would be cancelled at the last minute, so as not to win the auction. When the shilling account wins the auction, the seller has 2 options. Cancel the sale, or wear the fees. As shilling is usually a money grab, it's unlikely they will wear the fees. If they cancel too many transaction, eBay aren't going to be too happy about it.

Sometimes it can appear strange if the same buyer keeps winning a sellers auction. There is one seller I regularly win auctions from and depending on what they have listed, I could win all of their auctions (they mostly run buy it now listings and put up around 10 auctions a week). If anyone looked at the bidding history of those auctions, they would see the same person bidding and winning repeatedly.

It is hard to prove shilling these days with anonymous ID's. It's also made harder by more people using a VPN. That said, the shilling accounts would have to have been created using the VPN and then only accessed when it's turned on. The instant they open the account without the VPN, the true IP address is recorded and can be checked, even if all future access is done with the VPN on. If they had multiple shilling accounts, they would need to have multiple devices running at the same time. Even the most diligent person can stuff up and open the wrong account on the wrong device. Eventually all accounts will be linked by IP addresses.

I have reported so many blatant attempts at shill bidding. All eBay did was not allow them to run auctions for a month. One was so bad at it, the accounts she was using had very similar names, e.g bluebird1 and bluebird2 (not real ID's, just made them up for the purpose of the example). Each time she'd create a new selling account, the accounts would buy from each other to inflate the feedback, which is how I knew what the account names were. EBay even admitted they could see that with the feedback and did nothing. As far as I'm aware, this member is still committing fraud on a daily basis. I gave up trying as it was doing my head in. None of the other members I reported were affected in any way and are probably also committing fraud daily.

Re: shrill bidding

4green2000 — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:50:52 GMT

@gimegimeyogo wrote:
I have noticed a diamond jewellery seller is regularly using other accounts to pump up the auction price. I have reported them to Ebay via the normal Report Item tab many times over the past months but this seller still gets to sell. What is the point in reporting them if Ebay continues to ignore and allow this seller to basically defraud buyers??

did you ever stop and think for a minute that ebay DID check them out and found all was legitimate and that there was NO problem ????

Re: shrill bidding

gimegimeyogo — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:27:44 GMT

Another Ebay mole trying to justfy the lack of due diligence when it comes to fraud being clearly identified on Ebay!

Re: shrill bidding

maranock — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:16:18 GMT

Ahhh, another 'If I don't like your answer you must be an Ebay mole'

The standard response by newbies to the boards when they don't get experienced people, who know what they are talking about, agreeing with them.

Re: shrill bidding

esayaf — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:51:26 GMT

If you don't like shill bidding don't buy anything via auction. Easy, use your brain for more than holding your ears apart

Re: shrill bidding

gimegimeyogo — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:51:37 GMT

Having been on Ebay for over 10 years, red many 100s of forums on the boards, the coincidences of this happening happens far too often for it not to be a coincidence. And FYI - this seller continues to trade today ripping innocent people off with every sale and in essence with your pathetic justification and defence of Ebay, empower both guilty parties to continue to do so!

Re: shrill bidding

esayaf — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:58:11 GMT

If you're so concerned about others buy a cape and wear your undies on the outside. Then you will have a better chance of helping them. Or you could just accept that if others decide to give their money to con men then that's up to them isn't it. Or are you one of those that thinks only they should decide what everyone gets to do cause you're such an expert at everything

Re: shrill bidding

collect247 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 23:02:38 GMT

I know who all the ebay moles are and so far you have picked 0