topic Re: Shill bidding in Buying

Shill bidding

queenwaldorf — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 07:02:53 GMT

Just wanted to get a second opinion on this! I was watching a coat recently (273115643378) and it ended when I forgot about it without any bids. It was then relisted at a lower price with the same photos and description under another seller (202269856471). I bid on it and missed out, then a few hours later I got a second chance offer. I'm always wary of these when they come so soon after an auction ends, so I checked on the bids and found that the 'buyer' that had bid against me had the same number and % of feedback as the first seller that had listed the coat. I then checked more items and it looks like the second account has bid on the first seller's items previously and has driven the price up.

Further examples:

1st seller (shill bidder account with 4 feedback listed the coat the second time):

273075851118

273055857132

So does it look like that to anyone else? Or am I paranoid...

Re: Shill bidding

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 07:13:51 GMT

It looks like the Werribee account bid up on the Point Cook account and vice a versa.

Definitely looks sus.

Re: Shill bidding

queenwaldorf — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 09:29:49 GMT

They were both Werribee until this morning, too. Thanks for the second opinion!

Re: Shill bidding

*sparklz* — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 09:46:36 GMT

I would decline the 2nd chance offer and tell them why but you would be willing to pay the amount had you won without their bids.

Re: Shill bidding

go-tazz — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 09:58:25 GMT

@kopenhagen5wrote:
It looks like the Werribee account bid up on the Point Cook account and vice a versa.
Definitely looks sus.

The 17* feedback account is not the other Weribee account,(one listing is Werribie and the other Point Cook)

as when you click on the ID in the bidding history it comes up as n***n and that 17 account only has one n in

it,(it may be another shill account or a nibble bidder as they have bid on other sellers items.

They've added feedback information in the bid history and the seller has 90.5% feedback and the bidder has

91%,(so again different).

The 4 feedback account is suspicious as a possible shill account.

Re: Shill bidding - Shill & Sockpuppet

4channel — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:52:18 GMT

There should be a definition between what Shill Bidding and Sock Puppet bidding is.

* A shill is an ID of someone who does the bidding for another party.

* A sockpuppet is an extra ID that belongs to the person who has the auction. They used that Id or IDs to up the bids on their own auction.

I once reported sockpuppets selling identical items in about 20 different auctions. all accounts ativated at the same time. Obvious it was all the same person. After it was reported all the accounts were cancelled. It was obvious the same person had activated multiple accounts.

Re: Shill bidding - Shill & Sockpuppet

countessalmirena — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 00:10:39 GMT

I believe that under eBay's definition - or rather, eBay's policy - it doesn't matter whether the bidder is the seller him/herself OR someone who knows the seller.

"Shill bidding is when sellers—or someone they know—place a bid on their item to drive the price up and create an artificial bidding war."

- Shill bidding policy.

I would tend to keep the term sock puppet to the OED definition (rather than extend it to include false identities for driving up the price of an online auction listing):

NOUN

2 A false online identity, typically created by a person or group in order to promote their own opinions or views.

There are definitely some very organised groups who are part of international shill-bidding racketeering groups, where identities are created well in advance of their being used. It's almost like seeing "sleepers" being activated!

Re: Shill bidding - Shill & Sockpuppet

4channel — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 02:19:52 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
I believe that under eBay's definition - or rather, eBay's policy - it doesn't matter whether the bidder is the seller him/herself OR someone who knows the seller.

"Shill bidding is when sellers—or someone they know—place a bid on their item to drive the price up and create an artificial bidding war."

- Shill bidding policy.

I would tend to keep the term sock puppet to the OED definition (rather than extend it to include false identities for driving up the price of an online auction listing):

NOUN

2 A false online identity, typically created by a person or group in order to promote their own opinions or views.

There are definitely some very organised groups who are part of international shill-bidding racketeering groups, where identities are created well in advance of their being used. It's almost like seeing "sleepers" being activated!

OK, under Ebay definition, the sock-puppet account is regarded as a shill. Fair enough.

With regard to shill bidding, I have seen amigos helping each other to boost up the bid price in their auctions. Very naughty.

Yes, you're right about the sleepers being activated. Sad business. I guess it's a hard thing to police.

Re: Shill bidding

queenwaldorf — Tue, 15 May 2018 03:45:56 GMT

The same seller is still bidding on their own items. Amazes me how little integrity some people have.

273211731058

Re: Shill bidding

imastawka — Tue, 15 May 2018 04:35:00 GMT

?? I get nothing for that number ??

Re: Shill bidding

queenwaldorf — Tue, 15 May 2018 05:46:20 GMT

It's been removed. I reported it and expected nothing to happen, but there you go!

Re: Shill bidding

4channel — Tue, 22 May 2018 07:01:09 GMT

@queenwaldorf wrote:
It's been removed. I reported it and expected nothing to happen, but there you go!

What do you think queenwaldorf , was it the seller with a sock-puppet ID bidding in his/her own auction or a shill friend or associate helping out?

Anyway, good eBay has taken action and had it removed.

Re: Shill bidding

wing-less — Tue, 22 May 2018 09:41:51 GMT

I recently noticed a similar thing with jewellery and 5 different sellrs who all had someone bid on all of their items- each seller had a different bidder but all had the same number of feedbacks 4 and the same first initial.

I made some bids before I thought that it was sus when I looked at their completed listings and there were only things sold for either a tiny amount- won by the bidder who had bidded on everything back 6 months or for $12.50 by different winners but the other bidder had bid on every item right up until $12,50. this may be a coincidence- if so it is a weird one or a shop bidding on things to onsell but really, it seemed very sus to me.

I found it even more sus when I suddenly won something on the site that I know that I was losing until right at the end when I guess the bids above m were withdrawn, unfortunately for me it waas my test bids to see how what price the bids would go up to- so I "won" and item for a lot more that I would have paid for and therefore will cop the unpaid items as there is no way that I will pay for them after that scam

Re: Shill bidding

queenwaldorf — Wed, 23 May 2018 02:54:03 GMT

It's the seller bidding on her own stuff. She made the mistake of listing one of her items on the shill account, which is how I found out and called her out on it. She's still doing it though, whenever one of her items gets a bid on it her shill account then bids. I keep reporting and they keep getting removed so maybe she'll get the hint eventually.

Re: Shill bidding

*tippy*toes* — Wed, 23 May 2018 09:56:39 GMT

They don't, because they think they are invincable. I reported one seller repeatedly for shilling, which was coupled with feedback manipulation. The usernames were so similar it was so obvious. (Not real usernames) Like, hairymary1 vs hairymary2. Yet, eBay kept allowing her to sell and shill and feedback manipulate. One of the accounts became NARU, but after a few weeks became active again. I gave up reporting because eBay was clearly not interested in doing anything about it. No, it wasn't in China, the seller was in Melbourne.

Re: Shill bidding

4channel — Thu, 31 May 2018 07:01:36 GMT

@queenwaldorf wrote:
It's the seller bidding on her own stuff. She made the mistake of listing one of her items on the shill account, which is how I found out and called her out on it. She's still doing it though, whenever one of her items gets a bid on it her shill account then bids. I keep reporting and they keep getting removed so maybe she'll get the hint eventually.

Well, she's doing a very immoral thing then. I hope that she wins her own auction at a high price and gets lumped with the fees.

Come to think of it, in the past I think I have been a victim of someone else shill-bidding and upping the price.

Re: Shill bidding

collect247 — Thu, 31 May 2018 07:18:24 GMT

But if the seller wins then once the seller cancels the transactions they get their fees back excluding some PayPal fees so no real loss.

Re: Shill bidding

4channel — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 02:16:59 GMT

@collect247 wrote:
But if the seller wins then once the seller cancels the transactions they get their fees back excluding some PayPal fees so no real loss.

I suppose that has been done. Yes easily enogh done with a sockpuppet account and for a amigo operating as shill then the same too I guess. I wonder how many times this happens before being picked up on the radar.

Re: Shill bidding

tazzieterror — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 08:42:08 GMT

@4channel wrote:
@collect247 wrote:
But if the seller wins then once the seller cancels the transactions they get their fees back excluding some PayPal fees so no real loss.
I suppose that has been done. Yes easily enogh done with a sockpuppet account and for a amigo operating as shill then the same too I guess. I wonder how many times this happens before being picked up on the radar.

It should be very easy for eBay to detect, but they truly have no interest in discouraging this kind of behaviour - higher prices equals higher FVFs for them, so it's in their immediate financial interests to turn a blind eye.

I've reported a number of auctions over the past couple of years where obvious shill bidding has taken place, and eBay hasn't done anything about it. And by obvious I mean the seller has been quite stupid in how they've gone about it - two accounts with similar names (or they've changed the name on the first account, then later used a slight variation to name their second account), and they're selling items on both accounts that have been photographed on the same distinctive surface, and each account is bidding up items on the other one. Just real dumbs**t dishonesty. Yet despite detailed messages from me pointing it all out, nothing happends to the auctions or the accounts.

eBay don't care. They quite simply do not give a stuff.

Re: Shill bidding

queenwaldorf — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 03:39:03 GMT

I report it under the 'Counterfeit item' tag in the reporting list. It isn't, but it seems to get more attention than any other one.