topic Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller! in Buying

Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

vitalproperty — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:41:50 GMT

I bought item from seller.

They sent faulty item i raised it with seller and they refer me to their supplier to exchange it.???

I said no they take ownership and deal with trheir supplier. Refund me or exchange it

Went round in circles with seller just passing tge problem to me.

I didnt hve the time to muck around and just gave them negative feedback.

Next day i get email message from ebay that im in breach of policy. Feedback extortion. So they deleted the feedback without consulting me.

So some other buyer can now get ripped off.

Whats the point of feedback if the negative feedback dont stand. I was dissatisfied how the seller handled

Plus ebay warned me i was in breach.

Called ebay and they said they cannot reinstate the feedback.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

digital*ghost — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:05:47 GMT

It's difficult to comment on this one without understanding the full context or intent of the messages you exchanged with the seller (which I'm not asking for, just pointing out).

One of the reasons I say that, though, is feedback extortion is historically quite difficult to get eBay to accept, i.e. they have a long history of denying what has been blatant extortion and letting feedback stand. Usually, the buyer has to very explicitly make a demand for something they are not entitled to under threat of leaving negative feedback, before eBay will even begin to see it as FB extortion. Just as an example, if for example anything in your messages indicated (or could be interepret in such as way as to suggest) you wanted a refund without returning the item or you would leave a negative, that is something that eBay could agree was extortion.

I'm not saying you did threaten or demand that, BTW, just suggesting there might have been something that could have been interpreted that way.

eBay will also delete negs and such if a buyer does not comply with their return policies - eg if you had opened a request, and failed to return the item in the end, neuts and negs are pretty much off the table.

That being said, I don't know where your seller was located or whether they're a registered business, but if they are an Australian business seller, it is actually a breach of consumer law for them to tell a buyer they have to deal direct with someone else, it can be an option if the buyer prefers it, but they're not supposed to refuse to deal with it themselves.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

countessalmirena — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:18:56 GMT

@vitalproperty,

digital*ghost raises an important point - well, a few important points, particularly in respect of the difficulty in getting eBay to remove negative feedback on the basis of a claim that feedback extortion was occurring.

A look at the feedback that you have given your sellers shows some things that may lead eBay to consider you a high-risk buyer who violates policy.

You've violated policy more than once in giving your own buyers a negative feedback comment with a red positive dot (as sellers have not been able to give negative feedback to their buyers since 2008). You've referred to one of your buyers as a "mongrel".

SOLUTION: Just open an Unpaid Item Case if buyers don't pay, and don't give them any feedback. Unless you can give a positive comment, don't issue any buyer with a green dot.

Some of your most recent negative feedbacks given to sellers indicates that you've been disappointed by poor quality items and fakes from Chinese sellers. You certainly shouldn't have to put up with fakes and sub-standard items. You have the right to receive fit-for-purpose purchases. And of course you have the right to leave a negative if the transaction warrants it. However, if you buy risky items (that is, items from Chinese sellers who sell knock-offs, especially when you want genuine items made with materials that are to standard, when you're not paying the price of the genuine items' RRP here in Australia), you need to assume some of the consequences for those purchases yourself, rather than expect eBay or PayPal to be your safety net for ever. (eBay and PayPal do have some protocols in place with regard to buyer behaviour, especially if their attention is drawn to a buyer. Having been given that warning about being in breach of policy means you are now on eBay's radar. One of the consequences may be that eBay Money Back Guarantee could be limited or cancelled, and ditto with your PayPal Buyer Protection. I mention that as a possibility; you can read this in eBay's MBG page.)

SOLUTION: Make better buying chioces. Click onto the seller's feedback score which links to seller's feedback profile page where it will state where the seller is registered. If seller is in China, etc., just exercise some due vigilance. Check the seller's negative feedback to see if there's a trend in the comments about items being fake or coming from China. Just by doing these two things, you'll be a much more informed buyer with an appreciation that what looked like a good deal may very well turn sour, so it would be best to look elsewhere.

With regard to the instances where you have clearly been refunded in exchange for revised feedback, you should read eBay's policy on feedback. You're not permitted to threaten negative feedback to force a refund, return or replacement that isn't covered in the listing or eBay's MBG. Also... going back to 2011, there are indications that you want refunds or replacements without returning the original item. (E.G., earliest example in October 2011 has the seller replying to you "We would gladly exchange or refund, but you need to send them back first!!" - and subsequent replies in some of your later feedback indicate the same issue.)

SOLUTION: Apart from making better informed buying choices (so that you avoid problem purchases in the first place), just contact sellers if there is a problem. However, ❗❗❗❗ follow a new regime in terms of contacting sellers with a problem. You may want a full refund without returning the item that you consider isn't as described, but that's not how it works. You should read eBay's policies, in particular the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy. If you cannot negotiate a fair remedy through contacting the seller, then use the Resolution Centre process. You are required to request a return if you want a refund; the seller can offer you either a replacement or a refund upon receiving the returned item. ❗❗❗❗Don't, whatever you do, use feedback as a tool for compelling a seller into a refund or replacement, and especially not if you're refusing to send back the original item.

Some of the feedback you've given does seem unfair; you had buyer's remorse over finding the item cheaper elsewhere, and gave the seller a neutral on account of that. If you're unhappy post-sale when you KNEW the conditions of the sale and those conditions haven't changed, a negative or a neutral are (in my opinion) unfair. eBay's feedback pages state that your feedback must be fair and factual, and must be in relation to your transaction with the seller. Giving a neutral or a negative because you paid a higher price for an item that you could have bought more cheaply elsewhere but the cheaper one wouldn't have arrived in time is not a fair use of feedback, and sellers can contact eBay in such instances to have the feedback removed; it would almost certainly go on your record.

SOLUTION: Do your research beforehand. Don't buy until you're satisfied that you're happy to go ahead with the purchase. If you buy knowing that you're going to give a negative or neutral, that could conceivably be seen as feedback manipulation - which is covered in another eBay policy. You've got so many choices as a buyer; buy wisely. And... I wish you very happy and safe buying for the future.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

countessalmirena — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:39:33 GMT

CORRECTION:

"negative feedback comment with a red positive dot" should have been "negative feedback comment with a green positive dot."

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

springyzone — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:55:25 GMT

Forget the feedback for a moment.

I agree with you that on ebay it is the seller's responsibility to fix up a problem with faulty goods. .

You don't have to accept an exchange. Sometimes a seller will offer to send out a replacement of a cheap item but usually it's a case of return the item for a refund. When a seller gives you the run around, stop messaging & deal with the problem directly.

When did you buy this item?

Why not just open an official item not as described claim on ebay? Be factual, state the problem with the item, take a photo if you can as evidence.

Most likely, if your claim looks valid, ebay will support you & order the seller to refund, although keep in mind you will probably be expected to return the item, which can be a real pain with overseas purchases. At least if you had bought in Australia, the seller could issue you with a free return postage label.

With feedback in future, keep it really factual & never, never say in a message to a seller that you will give them bad feedback if.... etc

They already know that you or any buyer can give bad feedback, you don't need to mention it.

But money back is more important than feedback, that's your first priority.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

perniau — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 23:13:44 GMT

If it's the same seller that left you positive feedback recently - take a look at this thread...

https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Buying/What-to-do-when-feedback-keeps-being-removed/td-p/2126788/highlight/true

I've been 'watching' their neg feedback being removed for months now...very entertaining!!
Negs never seem to stick for very long

On 19/12/2018 - 16 current month negs
8/1/2019 - 9 current negs
14/1/2019 - 20 current negs
16/1/2019 - 9 negs.
17/1/2019 - 14 negs

Now most of these negs are for current month & they seem to 'magically' disappear & never carry to 6-12 months.
How do they do it??? Are they ebay staff??

Their revised feedback of 39 has been that number since 12/11/2018

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

vitalproperty — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:42:00 GMT

I bought the item. It was faulty straight out of the box. The seller immediately refers me straight to their supplier to sort it out? Sends me forms about warranty claims. I told him he sent it to me faulty and he can sort it with his supplier. To exchange or refund.

Then he goes cold.. no more replies. So i said if he dont act fairly i will gove negative feedback.. more automated messages and i was fed up. Negative feedback. Then all of a sudden deleted by ebay. Thats the whole story.

The post earlier where i called a seller a mongrel.. he sells me a car badge which i used on a customers car. The badge falls off after 30 mins. The adhesive was no good. I politely ask the seller about it.. his/ her response... go stick it on your forehead he said??? What? Then he said the badge dont make the car go faster and was being rude.. so i gave bad feedback and called him a mongrel.. well he was?

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

vitalproperty — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:46:39 GMT

Also ive bought and sold over a 1000 items. I dont give negative feedback for nothing..

If im unhappy i gove negative feedback, isnt that whats its for? So other buyers dont get burnt? To create a trusted marketplace?

I suspect this seller has had feedback deleted before and i was burnt as a result.. i know their ebay name changed...wonder why

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

lyndal1838 — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:47:39 GMT

You have left 3 negatives out of the 5 transactions you have had in the last 6 months.

I am surprised that only one has been removed by ebay.....your language leaves a lot to be desired.

If you break the rules of feedback ebay will remove it.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

vitalproperty — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:11:20 GMT

Im sorry but if its one negative or 100 negative so be it.. sellers need to do the right thing.

If i am so bad why is my own feedback as a seller overwelmingly positive? Its because i do everything i can to make my buyers happy and make sure they get a fair deal.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

countessalmirena — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:06:31 GMT

Sometimes even a good seller can fail to satisfy their buyer. I don't think you'd have been pleased by the wording of the couple of negatives and the neutral you've received as a seller, just to put things into perspective. Those buyers will no doubt consider that the negs they gave and the comments they included were justified... Everyone has their own bird's-eye view of a transaction.

vitalproperty, if you don't want to take on advice about how to avoid bad transactions, so be it. Your buying choices are your buying choices. If you don't want to take on advice about how to avoid risking the loss of your eBay MBG protection, so be it - again, your choice. If you don't want to take on advice about avoiding breaching eBay policy on feedback, you can continue doing what you are doing, of course. If eBay take action against your account, you will have to take it up with eBay.

I think that you're probably a good seller in the main. I hope that you will perhaps have better buying experiences in the future. I'll leave it at that.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

lyndal1838 — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:16:51 GMT

@vitalproperty wrote:
Im sorry but if its one negative or 100 negative so be it.. sellers need to do the right thing.

If i am so bad why is my own feedback as a seller overwelmingly positive? Its because i do everything i can to make my buyers happy and make sure they get a fair deal.

You can leave all the negatives you like but if you don't want it removed by ebay you need to follow the rules of feedback.....no mention of disputes, ebay stepping in or bad language.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

wide-world-of-stamps — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:18:55 GMT

@vitalproperty wrote:
I bought the item. It was faulty straight out of the box. The seller immediately refers me straight to their supplier to sort it out? Sends me forms about warranty claims. I told him he sent it to me faulty and he can sort it with his supplier. To exchange or refund.

Then he goes cold.. no more replies. So i said if he dont act fairly i will gove negative feedback.. more automated messages and i was fed up. Negative feedback. Then all of a sudden deleted by ebay. Thats the whole story.

The post earlier where i called a seller a mongrel.. he sells me a car badge which i used on a customers car. The badge falls off after 30 mins. The adhesive was no good. I politely ask the seller about it.. his/ her response... go stick it on your forehead he said??? What? Then he said the badge dont make the car go faster and was being rude.. so i gave bad feedback and called him a mongrel.. well he was?

The words highlighted in red are the reason your feedback would have been removed.

Although you probably meant them as fair warning to the seller to give them a chance to do the right thing, Ebay would see them as "feedback extortion" which is not allowed.

This is one area in which Ebay usually sides with the seller.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

vitalproperty — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 23:37:00 GMT

Isnt that ridiculous.. i try to give the seller an opoortunity to make good as i was set on bad feedback.. and its called extortion? Next time no warning.

The comment made earlier is lrob the best advice.. sellers know you can leave positive, neutral or negative feedback so it dont need to be said.

But its odd that if i dont warn them its fair feedback but if i give them the opportunity to make good its extortion?

Many sellers in their comments write dont leave negative feedback, contact us for resolution..

But if you contact them its considered extortion

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

imastawka — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 00:54:21 GMT

You can certainly give them the opportunity to make good.

Just don't mention feedback.

I don't see the need for that, unless it's a threat.

Which is why it's called extortion.

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 01:18:31 GMT

If you contact them and 'threaten' them with a red dot,eBay do indeed consider that extortion

Not sure how that prevents you contacting them though ? can't one conatct a seller requesting a resolution without even mentioning the big red dot?

If the seller won't help or makes up nonsense excuses, just leave the dot (within the rules if you don't want it removed)

I must be missing something?

Re: Ebay deleted my negative feedback for a dodgy seller!

digital*ghost — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 01:45:50 GMT

@vitalproperty wrote:
I bought the item. It was faulty straight out of the box. The seller immediately refers me straight to their supplier to sort it out? Sends me forms about warranty claims. I told him he sent it to me faulty and he can sort it with his supplier. To exchange or refund.

Then he goes cold.. no more replies. So i said if he dont act fairly i will gove negative feedback.. more automated messages and i was fed up. Negative feedback. Then all of a sudden deleted by ebay. Thats the whole story.

That in and of itself is not technically feedback extortion.

Extortion, by ebay's policies, is to ask for or demand something you are not entitled to, under the threat of a negative. A very blatant example of FB extortion would be for a buyer to want a full or partial refund on an item just because they didn't like it, or wanted to get it cheaper, and threatened to leave a neg if they didn't get it.

ebay's own example of what is not FB extortion is along the lines of "if my item doesn't arrive by X date, I will be leaving a negative". As a seller yourself, I'm sure you can see how utterly unreasonable such a threat is, but it is not extortion by eBay's standards.

What it may come down to is the requests you made for exchange or refund, if it could be construed you were asking for a replacement or refund without returning the original, or something similar (because buyers aren't entitled to keep items and also get a remedy). It's possible refusing to deal with (and consequently return the item to) the supplier could have been interpreted that way, even though under Australian consumer law you have the right to deal with the seller directly - opening a return request would have ensured that happened, BTW.

Alternatively, the seller might just have an account manager that - let's just say - empathises with the seller very strongly. There are a few of those around, particularly for high volume sellers.

I agree with everyone else, though, mentioning negs doesn't help buyers in the vast majority of cases - this kind of issue aside, all it does is take focus off the actual problem buyers are bringing to the seller's attention, and instead makes them focus on a different problem the buyer themselves created, and the seller will be less inclined to focus on fixing the problem, rather they will focus on avoiding the neg. Buyers might think they are the same thing, because they're saying "this is what I want, and if I don't get it, I'm leaving a neg", but it just doesn't work like that, as what the seller hears instead is "I'm a problematic buyer, and you need to do the bare minimum possible to get rid of me ASAP".