topic Re: Excessive Postage Costs? in Buying

Excessive Postage Costs?

cactusfever01 — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:05:53 GMT

Interested in the general consensus; seller is selling a motorcycle part (headlight) for $220.

Postage is $60 (I believe this to be excessive considering the size and weight of the item.

I asked if pick up was okay; seller responded in the affirmative but the total cost would be $260.

Can a seller include the postage cost in the item price?

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

countessalmirena — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 16:14:54 GMT

@cactusfever01,

Without knowing the size and weight of the item, and how it is to be packed for safe postage, and whether the item is to be cubed, etc., it's hard to say if the postage cost is excessive. At any rate, the seller can charge $60, and you as the potential buyer can decide whether or not you are happy to pay this.

If you request something not included on the listing - i.e., pick-up - I think the seller has the right to let you know that there will be a cost involved in obliging with that request. For instance, the seller may have to stay home when he/she has work to do or appointments to keep; the seller may have to unpack the already packaged item; and so on. It could be that the seller really doesn't like the idea of offering pick-up for whatever reason it may be - privacy, anxiety with strangers, past experience of buyers mucking him/her about and not turning up at the agreed time, etc.

eBay does allow sellers to charge a handling charge when selecting calculated postage, hence eBay obviously views handling charges as sometimes being appropriate. eBay also state ❝You can include reasonable charges for postage and handling❞ and add that sellers ❝need to make sure that any charges such as these are clearly stated in [their] listing❞, but by what you've posted, the seller has not actually included local pick-up in the listing, hence the requirement to state a charge (for a service not offered!) doesn't apply. It's a bit of a tricky question, as this isn't specifically covered in any eBay policy page so I can't quote any relevant section. If one searches for an item that is listed with local pick-up, eBay shows it as ❝Free local pick-up❞, so it's clear that eBay don't allow sellers to charge a handling fee or any other cost if they list the item with local pick-up. However, if the seller doesn't list it with local pick-up, and the buyer requests this as an extra service, I can't see that eBay can prevent the seller from stating that this extra service (and it is an extra service, not included in the original listing) will incur an additional charge.

(Charging $40 as the pick-up fee may strike me as rather high, but the seller has the right to value his/her time at a certain dollar figure. The seller doesn't have to agree to offer pick-up at all.)

But as I've said, this is the view I've come to after looking through the various options.

The ball is in your court really. If you've not actually purchased yet, then you can choose whether or not to buy based on the seller's response and/or total cost. If you have already purchased, then you purchased in the knowledge that the total price was going to be $280 with no pick-up option, and in that case it's only post-sale that you asked about the option of pickup up the item instead.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:42:54 GMT

What is the size and weight of the item and where is it being sent from/going to

What packing materials will be required to comply with Australia Post recommendations ?

Without knowing any of these, it is hard to say if I think $60 is over the top

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

springyzone — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 20:35:13 GMT

The postage cost of $60 sounds high but may be reasonable once you factor in packing plus the actual postage charges. I have been unpleasantly surprised myself a couple of times lately about just how expensive it has been to post off a few (very light!) parcels.

But you could always go on the Aust post website to calculate a rough estimate, add extra for boxes etc & see then if it is in the ball park.

However, I believe charging $40 as a pick up fee is unreasonable.

I'm well aware that time is valuable for all of us, including the seller & it can be a pain waiting around for someone to pick up.

But I feel I have learnt a few things in the years I have been reading these boards-mainly the views from both sides of the fence, I guess, and if i were the seller, I'd have jacked up the price of the helmet by eg $20, made postage $40 & if it didn't suit me to allow pick up, just said no, sorry, it is not available.

The seller is in the position of power when it comes to a query like this as they can (nicely) dictate the terms & times of pick up. For instance, they can give 2 or 3 narrow time/date ranges it will be available for pick up & state that if it is not picked up then, it will need to be posted. They do not have to agree to sitting around all day to wait.

And again, they can always say no to pick up.

The expectation of just about every buyer on ebay is that if they pick up, they won't have to pay postage costs. I'm guessing if a seller gave a good reason for some extra charge eg they had already wrapped the item & boxed a parcel and needed reimbursement for the box etc, then a buyer might be happy enough to cover the costs for those. But an extra $40? No.

That's the fast track to bad feeling & lukewarm feedback I would say.

And bingo, you're feeling like this is a rip off, you're feeling resentful, aren't you! Predictable you would. I would too.

You don't have to bid though.

Do you have to pay extra for pick up?

I don't know if ebay covers this scenario exactly but it may allow sellers to charge a bit extra as countessa says.

But forget ebay for a second. In practical terms, if you go to the seller's home & won't pay over the price he asks, he won't hand you the helmet, so yes, you'll have to pay the extra if you want it.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

eol-products — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 21:29:46 GMT

$60 is way to high for an item that must be close enough to be able to pick up. My guess is they have factored in the fees for the item into the postage rate.

When buying you need to look at the total price as some sellers will always try and cover costs in the postage component instead of the item price and you either pay the total or go to someone else. If another seller has one you could always try and use the price and see if they will better theres.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

springyzone — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 22:09:33 GMT

On re-reading your post, I now think the seller is mad.

He is selling a headlight ie item with lots of glass in it, and he isn't jumping at the offer of pick up by a buyer?

I'd be doing the happy dance, myself. Too much room for ebay claims or scams with this one, much safer with pick up I would say.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

eol-products — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 23:58:18 GMT

Don't forget a cash payment, so zero chance for disputes.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

digital*ghost — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 00:41:20 GMT

@cactusfever01 wrote:

Can a seller include the postage cost in the item price?

A seller can charge for pick up.

eBay do provide an option for this when a seller chooses to offer pick-up (see screencap below from the eBay listing form).

If it's not agreeable, just say no.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

gutterpunkz05 — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 01:23:13 GMT

Its pretty simple, rather than whining about how a seller sets their prices, is the item worth $280.00 (to You) delivered to your door.

If yes, be happy and buy it.

If Not, forget it or make an offer.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

springyzone — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 03:14:42 GMT

That might be logical, gutterpunz, but it flies in the face of human nature.

People don't like feeling they may have been overcharged on postage & they are always going to whinge about it, so sellers need to be a bit more cunning how they set their prices.

Time after time I see sellers here saying-it's the total price that counts, not how much postage you get charged etc and while that is correct, buyer perception doesn't work that way.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

digital*ghost — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 04:33:14 GMT

@springyzone wrote:
That might be logical, gutterpunz, but it flies in the face of human nature.
People don't like feeling they may have been overcharged on postage & they are always going to whinge about it, so sellers need to be a bit more cunning how they set their prices.

Time after time I see sellers here saying-it's the total price that counts, not how much postage you get charged etc and while that is correct, buyer perception doesn't work that way.

But, at the same time, advice is tailored to the person asking the question.

If a seller was asking in the forum about how to set up their pricing and postage costs, or which costs are best put under which heading, 99% of the advice would be to keep the P&H as low as is feasible, and have all other costs covered in the item price, precisely because of the perception of these costs for the majority, which is not about reailty, but feelings based on pre-conceived ideas or (in some cases) personal principles. The advice to a seller is designed to minimise avoidable issues, if they so choose.

Conversely, when a buyer asks questions like this, or if it's ok for sellers to charge more than actual postage costs, or charge for pick-up, the answer is almost invariably yes of course they can, because the advice should be about reality, not feelings / ideas, which is also designed to minimise avoidable issues for the buyer. When someone suggests or implies that the seller is doing something inherently wrong, it perpetuates the perception of the non-reality and encourages poor judgement of any seller who doesn't conform to those expectations, without considering anything from the seller's side, when there are myriad, perfectly legitimate reasons for them to want or need to charge those costs. (I am speaking generally here, rather than about this specific scenario).

The fact that this perception exists is of course the reailty for sellers, so they then get to choose whether they will conform to that or not, but the point is changing or expanding perceptions is never a bad thing, and the buyer still gets to decide what is acceptable to them in terms of total paid.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

gutterpunkz05 — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:56:14 GMT

@springyzone wrote:
That might be logical, gutterpunz, but it flies in the face of human nature.
People don't like feeling they may have been overcharged on postage & they are always going to whinge about it, so sellers need to be a bit more cunning how they set their prices.

Time after time I see sellers here saying-it's the total price that counts, not how much postage you get charged etc and while that is correct, buyer perception doesn't work that way.

Dont see any buyers going Gee that was cheap postage. Sellers often loose out on shipping costs, depending on destination,

WA & SA especially, and set flat rate post costs accordingly. By my calculations, if the hat in question was sent in a box, the total costwould be close to $40.00. I bet we would not see the OP offering to send the extra to the seller. If as the OP claims in feedback, that the hat was damaged, then it should have been returned for a full refund. There was recently a very good article relating to the falicy of Free Post and the subsidisation of post to the majority of Australia by the residents of 2 cities. If the majority of Australia was required to pay actual costs then they would not be buying online at all and probably would not have a delivery service anyway.

Cubing isnt it fun. just sent a boxed item, total weight 10Kg Cubed weight 49.9Kg Postage cost just over $102. Packing

costs about $20 Time to Pack approx 30min. Now it just has to magically get itself 30km to the post office.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

countessalmirena — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:26:52 GMT

I need to play with my draft item for testing purposes a little more. I couldn't see the option to charge for pick-up and assumed it had been done away with.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

davewil1964 — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:32:42 GMT

It's available on all my listings. Maybe you are using the (very stripped down) 'quick' lister?

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

countessalmirena — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:33:58 GMT

Gutterpunkz, I think you conflated the headlight in this thread with the hat in another recent thread (the one about box rather than satchel)...? Mind you, I think I could get away with a Melbourne Cup headgear extravaganza featuring glossy feathers, ribbons, and a motorcycle headlight... (but I'd have a killer headache after that sort of weight on my head!)

Every other point in your post - agreed.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

countessalmirena — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:35:15 GMT

No, I made sure that I had the "Advancef" option. I will have another look.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

digital*ghost — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:51:09 GMT

I'm not sure the option has always been available, as I don't offer pick-up and also have vague memories of it being something that had to be specifically mentioned in descriptions (i.e. you could charge for pick-up, but only if it was mentioned up front). This might be way back when, when postage costs didn't have to be specified in listings (I was still pretty much a newby back then, mostly buying, and by the time I really got into selling, things had shifted a bit and quoting domestic postage was mandatory, so my memories of seller rules from then are fallible, and I couldn't even begin to tell you whether that field for adding a charge has always been there - I only checked because I couldn't find anything mentioning charges for pick-up in policies yet was sure there was some kind of provision for it. Edit: if you're not seeing it in the listing form, try checking for it under extra options, add or remove options or whatever it says these days, as some features aren't visible unless you've selected them to appear).

I suspect, too, that if it wasn't always available, the advent of larger stores that operate out of warehouses but don't have retail storefronts and still allow pick-up, made it necessary - many people think strictly in terms of picking up from someone's house and there being no direct, out of pocket expenses for a seller for the buyer to pick up, but if a postage charge includes the cost of warehouse staff to locate and prepare the item for transit, they may still have to do that when someone picks it up, and they still have to be paid for doing that. (I know people will argue it's better to have that in the item price, but the seller may charge it separately so it is not multipled many times if someone purchases multiples).

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

gutterpunkz05 — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:05:19 GMT

Your right there countess, was back out in the paddock and thought, hang on what thread did I reply to. Ah well as someone once said, it happens.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

countessalmirena — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:07:24 GMT

Aha!

davewil, digital*ghost, I can see how eBay have set this up. It is decidedly weird.

If I select "Flat: same cost to all buyers", I can set up postage rates based on domestic postal zones (although... I stll need to play with this). This also enables me to select "Offer local pickup" with a cost option.

If I select "Calculated: Cost varies by buyer location", I can also select "Offer local pickup". However, there's no option to select cost for pickup. There is an option to select handling cost, but it comes with a stern "– calculated postage only" caveat.

If I select "Freight: Large and bulky items", there's no option to offer pickup at all, let alone set a cost for pickup.

All of this seems very inconsistent and lacking in logic.

Re: Excessive Postage Costs?

wide-world-of-stamps — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 20:47:16 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
Aha!

davewil, digital*ghost, I can see how eBay have set this up. It is decidedly weird.

If I select "Flat: same cost to all buyers", I can set up postage rates based on domestic postal zones (although... I stll need to play with this). This also enables me to select "Offer local pickup" with a cost option.

If I select "Calculated: Cost varies by buyer location", I can also select "Offer local pickup". However, there's no option to select cost for pickup. There is an option to select handling cost, but it comes with a stern "– calculated postage only" caveat.

If I select "Freight: Large and bulky items", there's no option to offer pickup at all, let alone set a cost for pickup.

All of this seems very inconsistent and lacking in logic.

The dictionary definition of Ebay.