topic Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded01! in Selling

Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded01!

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 04:52:35 GMT

Hello Ladies and Gents,

Well its happened for the second time to me (never before Nov last year).

I woke up this morning to find a return request.

The item was claimed as damaged in transit. I have my doubts, as I am a meticulous packer. I mean I REALLY am a meticulous careful packer. I use very strong cardboard, I usually double box. You could easily stand on my items with out breaking them. But I suppose anything can happen. It is possible that the item was damaged.

What I think is more probable is that the item I sold is now being advertised as a "door buster" type special (starting Saturday) and is suddenly being advertised at half its normal price. I have my suspisions that the buyer is taking advantage of the new MBG policy. I cant prove it, I just suspect.

Anyway. What to do?

At first I thought "Oh Wow I am going to have to pay return postage AND everything else AND refund the buyer and then received a broken item return mail" (the original a brand new phone sealed in the box)

But then... I searched on the forums here and read some very interesting posts by tall_bearded01 in this thread.

It seems that eBays own MBG policy does not cover "Items damaged during postage" see policy here

I have already politely emailed the buyer asking for photos and explaining we will need to do an Australia Post investigation.

Obviously, I worry that eBay may just take over and refund her anyway. I am not sure about the defect situation with my account (unclear if I have "earned" one for having a return request initiated) and I do want a fair outcome all 'round.

So how should I proceed folks?

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

beautbots01 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 04:59:22 GMT

Usually where it is claimed damaged in transit, the buyer needs to take the packaging with the item to the PO and ask for their input as to whether the item was packaged securel.y against damage. This would back up your statement and Australia Post would need this as part of their investigation. I know these types of claims can be tricky, a lot rides on the buyer's cooperation.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:09:01 GMT

Right, good point.

And it could get tricky straight away, as you point out.

My item was in a cardboard double "cuccoon" and then in a 500G satchel. It was extremely strongly packed, but they chose not to take all the internal protective cardboard then it would be easy to mislead the Post Office.

I am not at all sure of my buyer's honesty in this case.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

joethenuts — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:07:17 GMT

I think you will find that auspost will only deal with the seller ,as they paid for postage not the buyer,

the biggest problem is was it already damaged [which i dont think so] before sending or by transit.

i would think auspost unless insured parcel will do nothing,but you never know .good luck.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:13:07 GMT

Thanks for the good wishes Joe.

"auspost will only deal with the seller" Only thing is the buyer has the parcel now, naturally.

Good thing is that I used eBay postage, so its tracked all the way there.

Oh one weird point I forgot was that the buyer claims they received the parcel today (Good Friday) which can't be right as there is no post. The tracking shows it delivered yesterday (Thursday AM).

Bit weird.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:25:52 GMT

Reading more on that link I provided in the OP, there seems to be a conflict of advice from eBay. Two ways of looking at the situation and two differing bits of advice.

You have the eBay FAQ stating:

A ‘not as described’ item should be materially different from what the seller described in the item listing. This includes:

Different item or version
Wrong condition e.g. the listing stated the item was ‘new’ when it’s clearly been used
Missing parts or components (e.g. a listing for a camera kit stated it would include a tripod, but it’s missing)
Defective during first use (e.g. TV didn’t turn on)
Counterfeit item
Missing major parts or features, and this wasn’t mentioned in the listing
Damaged during postage

Versus the MBG policy of:

Not covered

Items damaged during pick-up or postage or not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight).

I can easily read the MBG policy two ways. One listing a series of conditions that are not covered when "the buyer arranges freight", the other more like a list of scenarios whan the MBG does not apply including (presumably all) postage.

Very unclear!

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

expanded_perceptions — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:23:01 GMT

@rkxfamily wrote:
Thanks for the good wishes Joe.
"auspost will only deal with the seller" Only thing is the buyer has the parcel now, naturally.
Good thing is that I used eBay postage, so its tracked all the way there.

Oh one weird point I forgot was that the buyer claims they received the parcel today (Good Friday) which can't be right as there is no post. The tracking shows it delivered yesterday (Thursday AM).
Bit weird.

I may be inclined to keep sending them very nice messages and just play dumb and curious. They have already dropped a ball by saying it was delivered today, they may just keep digging themselves a bigger hole? I also would not question the delivery on good friday just yet, but run with it and see what else they slip up on?

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

digital*ghost — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:25:43 GMT

@rkxfamily wrote:

It seems that eBays own MBG policy does not cover "Items damaged during postage" see policy here

I am sorry if you are experiencing a spurious claim, but I think TB's interpretation of that particular part of the policy is a little off-base.

Under not covered, it actually reads (emphasis mine):

Items damaged during pick-up or postage or not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight).

So I think the provision is when the item is picked up (they had the opportunity to inspect, they transported the item themselves, or they arranged and paid for a courier or somesuch to pick the item up on their behalf.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:33:31 GMT

Yes you may well be right about that DG.

I was excited when I saw TB's post as I thought I might be safe, but reading more into it maybe not.

The wording is magnificently unclear lol.

@ichibansknees

Yep I've kept it really light and polite but unfortunately I already asked them if perhaps there was an error or mis-delivery and pointed out the date,

Its amazing how something as simple as a return "gets" to you. (well me anyhow). I am honest with people and I expect the same back.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

digital*ghost — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:33:08 GMT

@rkxfamily wrote:

The wording is magnificently unclear lol.

Such is the unfortunate habit of eBay, you're hardly ever sure of where you stand, which makes defending yourself against their processes and decisions all the more difficult. 😞

I hope you're able to work it out with the buyer.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

expanded_perceptions — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:40:17 GMT

@rkxfamily wrote:

Yes you may well be right about that DG.
I was excited when I saw TB's post as I thought I might be safe, but reading more into it maybe not.
The wording is magnificently unclear lol.

@@expanded_perceptions
Yep I've kept it really light and polite but unfortunately I already asked them if perhaps there was an error or mis-delivery and pointed out the date,
Its amazing how something as simple as a return "gets" to you. (well me anyhow). I am honest with people and I expect the same back.

No of course, I would be the same! Easy for me to sit here saying be polite, I would be fuming, especially as like you, I pack my items ultra carefully, often double box, bubble wrap, label accordingly, photograph during packing, after packing, at the PO on the weighing scales etc... and I am honest like yourself. I possibly would have my adrenaline pumping like a Mike Tyson opponent in the 80's, so my advice is probably more theory than personal practice good luck though, and keep reaching out to these boards, as they really are supportive in these cases!!

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

joethenuts — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 05:41:31 GMT

you are 100% ghost , because me and TB dont see eye to eye ,as some of the posters have said before ,he writes what he wants you to read and leaves out very important words sometimes ,oh well lets hope rkx wins this one.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

thecatspjs — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:28:19 GMT

Whilst policy wording is problematic, or some make it so,

the eBay MBG does cover items damaged during post - see eBay FAQs

http://pages2.ebay.com.au/eBay_Money_Back_Guarantee/FAQs

"What determines if an item is ‘not as described’?

A ‘not as described’ item should be materially different from what the seller described in the item listing. This includes:

Different item or version
Wrong condition e.g. the listing stated the item was ‘new’ when it’s clearly been used
Missing parts or components (e.g. a listing for a camera kit stated it would include a tripod, but it’s missing)
Defective during first use (e.g. TV didn’t turn on)
Counterfeit item
Missing major parts or features, and this wasn’t mentioned in the listing
Damaged during postage"

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:34:21 GMT

Sotty but you have lost as far as claiming through Aus Post is concerned if you posted in a prepaid satchel. Mobile phones must be sent by regular post with a road only sticker on them. If you ask AP for compensation you could well be in trouble when they see what was in the satchel.

You are within your rights to ask for a photo of the damage and if they won't provide one or a condition report from a qualified 3rd party then you can contest the claim.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

beautbots01 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:44:11 GMT

@joethenuts wrote:
I think you will find that auspost will only deal with the seller ,as they paid for postage not the buyer,
the biggest problem is was it already damaged [which i dont think so] before sending or by transit.
i would think auspost unless insured parcel will do nothing,but you never know .good luck.

In order to substantiate a "damaged in transit" against AP, the BUYER is the only one who can present the "damaged" goods with the packaging. The seller is normally the only one the AP will discuss lost items, but this is not the case here. BTW I have successfully solved a missing item (as a buyer) with AP without the seller's involvement.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:55:10 GMT

OK, good to know, thanks PJ.

I have asked the buyer for photos, so it will be interesting to see what appears, or doesnt as the case may be.

@ CPJs

Yes I saw that CPJs. I was speculating above if it contrasts with the MBG policy. Seems its all in the reading or emphasis. Or emphaaaarsis lol. Anyway, this from TB1 is what first gave me some hope with the case:

Versus the MBG policy of:

"Not covered

Items damaged during pick-up or postage or not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)"

I can easily read the MBG policy two ways. One listing a series of conditions that are not covered when "the buyer arranges freight", the other more like a list of scenarios whan the MBG does not apply including (presumably all) postage.

But I am now thinking it must be the former.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

beautbots01 — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:07:43 GMT

I don't know how this would work, but if there is a dispute over ownership of the phone (ie if eBay decide that the seller must refund the buyer) whether the seller then has the right to take back ownership of the item's IMEI, which would only pass to the buyer if the transaction was successful?

And what I am saying here is, if that buyer has designs on reselling an item which is described by them a damaged, then it would be worthless if it could not be used.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

thecatspjs — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:10:35 GMT

Sorry rkx I now realise looking through the whole thread you had noted that. My mistake.

As you (and others) have also noted, the policy statement being discussed is not inconsistent with with the FAQ sheet - and references the MBG not applying to pick up items or those where the buyer organises freight themselves.

Agree with DG in that "Items damaged during pick-up or postage or not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)"

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:36:35 GMT

I would email them and ask for the required proof and tell them if they provide it you will be blocking the IMEI numer until it arrives back so it will not work.

Re: Item claimed damaged in post - return requested, how to correctly proceed? Calling tall_bearded0

rkxfamily — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 08:46:48 GMT

I will do that PJ.

This has got me thinking; is there any requirement or onus on the buyers to prove the items are actually damaged in such a case with eBay's MBG policy? What proof is required other than their "word"?

This is the request sent this morning BTW:

03 Apr:

The buyer (xxxxxxxxx) requested a return (5007902678)

Reason for return:

It arrived damaged

Comments:

Item was at door when I went outside this morning. I opened the packaging and found phone screen cracked. It doesn t work because of this.

So, what would happen if the buyer simply puts in their return request claim to eBay and "stonewalls" me. IE fails to respond in any way to me. If they just wait out the seven days without answering, will they automatically get their refund? Surely they must provide some reasonable proof?