topic Re: Licencing and Copyright in Selling

Licencing and Copyright

clarry100 — Fri, 08 May 2015 00:09:17 GMT

We are wondering where one goes to find out if some kind of licence is available to sell certain products. eg Peppa Pig or Frozen products.

And then where do we go to obtain such licences/permissions to sell.

Does the ebay VERO program have a web site where such info might be available?

Re: Licencing and Copyright

joethenuts — Fri, 08 May 2015 01:18:34 GMT

do you have plenty of moolah, and pretty much have to be sold in major stores only..

Re: Licencing and Copyright

digital*ghost — Fri, 08 May 2015 01:53:03 GMT

You need to contact the rights holders - many will have a formal process in place, and the costs are usually quite high (especially for something like Frozen, which is Disney - for Disney, your business needs to meet certain requirements, as do the products you intend to manufacture / sell.

Here's some independent info specifically related to Disney:

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/license-sell-disney-characters-products-21576.html

Re: Licencing and Copyright

thecatspjs — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:04:21 GMT

Disneys address in Oz is:

Australia
Licensing Proposal –
The Walt Disney Company (Australia) Pty Limited
South Yarra, Victoria, Australia 3141

Google is your friend.

Cut and paste from a cut and paste in an etsy discussion on similar topic

The Walt Disney Company is committed to the promotion and maintenance of responsible international labor practices in its licensing and direct sourcing operations throughout the world. Contracted Disney licensees are responsible for adhering to the same practices. For more information on this program, visit our corporate website.

How to Submit a Proposal
Disney licensees should meet the following requirements:
1) Your company must have a minimum of five years experience in manufacturing and distribution.
2) Your company must be a manufacturer, NOT a middleman or distributor.
3) Your company must have five years prior experience in the product category being proposed.

Please note: Meeting these qualifications in no way implies or guarantees that you will be granted a Disney license.

If your company meets the above criteria, please send us the following information:
(please note that we do not accept fax or email submissions)

Information about your company
Company name:
Company address:
Company phone number:
Executive contact:
Key executive biographies:
Past company experience in consumer products
Manufacturing:
Distribution:
Top line public financial information about your company:
Short explanation of why you want to become a Disney Licensee:
Send us your product catalog or sell sheets
Proposed product category (see below for category descriptions):
Do not send proprietary creative ideas

Divisions and Categories:
Please identify the division and categories to whom you would like to make a proposal.
Apparel, Accessories & Footwear

Re: Licencing and Copyright

clarry100 — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:05:59 GMT

Thanks DG, I will look at that site in detail.

The other side of this is if/when we buy stock in the form of the raw materials we will use to make up our products it will come in the form of rolls of ribbon, buttons and such like pre-printed with the characters already on it. This stuff is all made in China of course.

So somehow we will need to establish if the Chinese wholesaler is manufacturing licensed products as well. We don't want a box of stock to turn up in customs here only to have it impounded because it is not licenced but some kind of fake copy that may look real.

It's entirely possible that it all may get too hard and too expensive to do stuff like this, but I would like to study and investigate this first.

We have seen quite a bit of this kind of product selling here on ebay and ETSY so one would assume (hope) that those sellers have all the appropriate licences in place. At least on ebay they would be removed under the VERO program if they were not licenced I would think. Not too sure how ETSY handle these policies.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

pennyforum14 — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:28:50 GMT

Never assume, we all know what that does, lol.

There is a lot of discussion of this in the Etsy forums as well, and the general feeling is that many of the sellers of such things are NOT licensed. Disney is a stringent defender of its rights and will take action when breaches come to its attention, but there are so many....

There is also a grey area in the legal stuff that means that the license only extends to the original sale. In other words, in the case of fabrics made with the Disney design, the manufacturers of these fabrics must have a license to use the Disney images and character names, but once the licensed fabric is produced, a craftsman who purchases it and makes it into a garment does not require a license to offer that garment for sale. Second hand goods are also not required to prove license status (going by what was stated in a post in the Etsy forums by a copyright lawyer awhile back, and that is in the US, may be different here).

I used to work in importing and the company I worked for imprted a lot of licensed goods including Disney. WE had to ensure the Asian suppliers we dealt with had the appropriate licenses and the only way to be sure was to take out licenses in our company name and then contracct the manufacturers to make products to the license standards exclusively for us. Disney was incredibly complex, they had such stringent standards for quality, safety and reliability, the boss didn't trust anyone to deal with their licensing but himself. We wholesaled to retail outlets and there were often limitations on who could and could not stock our licensed product, all in the name of protecting Disney's brand.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

thecatspjs — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:29:43 GMT

You would definately need a licence to create and market new products such as you describe, even if your supplier is a licenced distributer.

For most goods in Oz you can resell without a licence if the products you are reselling have been produced/purchased from a licenced manufacturer/distributer) and you are not claiming to be licenced distributer or using any of the companies logos etc that would infringe on intellectual property rights (copyright, trademark or patent).

Re: Licencing and Copyright

digital*ghost — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:28:17 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:

So somehow we will need to establish if the Chinese wholesaler is manufacturing licensed products as well.

We have seen quite a bit of this kind of product selling here on ebay and E**Y so one would assume (hope) that those sellers have all the appropriate licences in place.

I can almost categorically guarantee the answer to both is no.... The Chinese just tend to make the stuff, and you'll find officially licensed products will have appropriate labeling, safety standards etc.

The other site (got slapped for mentioning them the other day, so not naming them ) deals with it in a similar way to eBay - the rights holder needs to submit a formal complaint, after which the seller is given the opportunity to defend the claim (which you don't get here). However, they do enforce a 3 strikes and you're out system, they'll close down a shop, any and all associated IDs, and prevent you from opening a new one as soon as the third breach is made. Sellers there often don't know or understand (or don't care) that they can't make and sell products featuring someone else's IP without permission.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

digital*ghost — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:33:07 GMT

@pennyforum14 wrote:

There is also a grey area in the legal stuff that means that the license only extends to the original sale. In other words, in the case of fabrics made with the Disney design, the manufacturers of these fabrics must have a license to use the Disney images and character names, but once the licensed fabric is produced, a craftsman who purchases it and makes it into a garment does not require a license to offer that garment for sale. Second hand goods are also not required to prove license status (going by what was stated in a post in the E**y forums by a copyright lawyer awhile back, and that is in the US, may be different here).

I remember reading one thread there that mentioned some fabrics featuring trademarked designs are licensed for personal use only - there was some discussion about whether that could be enforced, though.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

clarry100 — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:44:38 GMT

Tehe!

We don't meet rule #1 or rule #3.

So looks like all this is just getting too hard.

Might just have to put it to bed and forget it until we are millionaires with a billion dollar company.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

digital*ghost — Fri, 08 May 2015 02:51:29 GMT

Maybe look at some smaller fish first, to wet your feet (so to speak, and to mix metaphors in a gross kind of way if you think about it. )

Anyway, what I mean is, there's probably some smaller, independent companies with characters, themes etc, that might be suitable for you, and it might help create some niche lines, too. They don't necessarily have to be children's characters etc, there are lots of parents who dress up their kids in Star Wars stuff, so you could find something along those kinds of lines, too.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

joethenuts — Fri, 08 May 2015 03:01:28 GMT

correct as my first words were do you have plenty of moolah.

i remember being invollved maybe 25 years ago in a major toy company that had the license to use bananas in pyjamas foam pull out sofas , which you can buy from target and co , a standard kids sofa would sell at wholesale price $17 a banana in pyjamas kids sofa same material same factory $29 $ 12 license fee for evey pull out kids sofa aprox 40% ouch

Re: Licencing and Copyright

clarry100 — Fri, 08 May 2015 05:23:43 GMT

I actually contacted a larger seller of these kind of product lines on that other site (aforementioned E***Y) and asked about her problems getting licences to sell this kind of product. She sells lots of this kinda stuff other than just Disney across many platfroms including ebay. We found her presence on at least five selling platforms.

She replied very quickly and without actually saying outright she does not have any licences she said you don't need a licence as she has been selling this stuff for 3-years now and has only once had a problem where she was asked to take down an Octanauts listing.

Her listings are all present loud & clear on ebay too including the Octanauts one.

So even ebay have not given her any grief in selling these items.

I know that doesnt make it right, it just means she has not been caught yet.

I suspect tho that if the IP holders get wind of it she may come crashing down.

Either that or there really is no licence requirement.

I need to fish around some more.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

cherry*135 — Fri, 08 May 2015 06:29:22 GMT

Either that or there really is no licence requirement.

Definitely a licence requirement needed for manufacturing/ selling Disney themed items e.g. Frozen themed items are a current big seller, Disney aren't going to let every Tom, Dick and Harry tap into that market with no cut for themselves.

It is not fair to buyers either, if item is claimed to be Disney but it isn't one of their licensed products.

This is from the other e site, late last year, in the US. (I have abbr other sites names)

Disney is really aggressively going after people on all venues. Especially for any items pertaining to Frozen. They have shut down a ton of shops on A in the last couple weeks. Looks like they are sweeping through Ebay and E too.

If you are selling Disney items without a license you may want to rethink that asap. I guess there is a ton of counterfeit Frozen items on the market and they are going after them.

One of the A sellers got served a lawsuit since they sold such a high volume. A is freezing their money owed them as Disney says its theirs. And I suspect Disney is right and will get their money.

I am all for Disney protecting their brand but just thought some sellers might need another warning. I see so much Disney Frozen stuff on here its not even funny.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

digital*ghost — Fri, 08 May 2015 07:04:57 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:

Her listings are all present loud & clear on ebay too including the Octanauts one.
So even ebay have not given her any grief in selling these items.

None of the selling platforms, like eBay, are likely to do or say anything, unless and until the rights holder files a complaint, because the venues don't ask for verification of licensed products, and wouldn't know who has or hasn't got a license to sell those kind of items.

They tends to respond and take action immediately if they receive a complaint from the rights holder, though. The seller you mention sounds dangerous, IMHO, specifically saying things like "you don't need a license" is bad form when people could be taking her business as an example (obviously no one should, but a lot of newer sellers would probably think she knows what she's talking about). Dangerous to herself, too - there's no way I'd ever build a business on someone else's foundation - imagine doing that for years, building it to such a success that it's your sole source of income etc, and then one day not only does your business get instantly shut down for good, but you owe a significant chunk of money you no longer have to other people.

You migh actually be quite surprised by the kinds of things you can and can't sell without risking ramefications, and how even celebrities are trying to cash in on things (in conjunction with preventing others from making a profit on it). Beyonce didn't like people selling items with 'feyonce' on them (in place of fiance), and sicced her lawyers onto a lot of E**y sellers, despite many people pointing out she didn't really have proper legal grounds, Katy Perry took similar issue after the whole 'left shark' thing, and I can't remember who it was now, but one singer trademarked a whole bunch of utterly generic phrases after using them in her lyrics (that shouldn't be alllowed. but it seems at least in the US, you can trademark just about anything you want if you have the cash).

Re: Licencing and Copyright

everard6920 — Fri, 08 May 2015 10:03:27 GMT

Please someone correct me if you know I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you can re-sell goods that you've purchased from a licensed distributor/retailer. A quick search for Disney's Frozen gets over 28,000 results. I'm sure most of those are not from licensed distributors/retailers. They're from people who've bought the items in stores and are re-selling them.

If you weren't allowed to re-sell goods that you'd purchased from distributors/retailers on eBay, I suspect that the number of listings on eBay would just about halve.

Creating goods is another matter entirely.

Re: Licencing and Copyright

digital*ghost — Fri, 08 May 2015 11:26:33 GMT

@everard6920 wrote:
Please someone correct me if you know I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you can re-sell goods that you've purchased from a licensed distributor/retailer.

In general, that's true, the main issue is ensuring the goods are licensed to begin with, no matter where they actually come from - it's very easy to get products with Disney characters on them, the vast majority of the ones being sold direct by Chinese wholesalers are unlicensed, which means people shouldn't be buying and selling them, and are taking a risk to do so - I just searched for "Frozen necklace", and in the first page of 50 results, only 3 were verifiably licensed products. Many of the rest, I know exactly where they come from, and I know they're not licensed... One even has Frozen characters on the item and packaging, but the packaging says "The Snow Queen" - dead give-away of an unlicensed product.