topic Re: chargeback in Selling

chargeback

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 03:01:21 GMT

So, it happened! Just got message from PP that somebody has made a charge back for $340 for something sold in mid February; they claim unauthorised use of CC. I answered it with the C&S tracking info, and mentioned the fact they left positive FB.

Howerver, I am bit concerned because when I looked at the tracking it shows as still waiting at the PO. Obviously, they have collected it, but it is bit worrying that AP does not update the info when they did sign for it.

I have also messaged the buyer that unless they stop the chargeback the matter will be handed over to the Fraud Squad.

Will keep you posted 🙂

Re: chargeback

foxette-in-sox — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 04:18:54 GMT

Ring AP & make sure it WAS signed for on delivery & ask why not updated on website.

Re: chargeback

kopenhagen5 — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 04:21:33 GMT

😮

Well at least it happened to someone with nouse.

Very keen to hear outcome. Good Luck Clarifying 🙂

Re: chargeback

songqi13 — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 04:41:47 GMT

same thing happen me long time before

my company not win paypal claim or police claim because real ebay person not bad people

police tell card used by bad person to buy items and run away from same house and make big trouble for real ebay person

real person find out problem many week later when get card papers from bank to pay

my company loose money but claim for loss to taxmen at end year so not loose in end

Re: chargeback

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 06:30:53 GMT

Ring AP & make sure it WAS signed for on delivery & ask why not updated on website.

I have emailed AP asking why it does not show as collected; although I know the answer, simple, they did not scan it. X-( There was another couple like that; I occasionally check tracking just to get an idea how fast is delivery to some areas, and I saw that some items are supposedly sitting at the PO couple of months later, when I know they are NOT, as the buyers left very lovely FBs 🙂

It is just not good enough, when you pay for signature, on line tracking & extra insurance for expensive item, and they do not do such a simple thing as run the scanner over it when it is collected.

I guess I am lucky that having few hundred dollars impounded is not going to make any difference to me; however I can sympathise with people who would be counting on the money. But it is still annoying; I have other things to do than chasing this up.

Re: chargeback

centrelinegraphics_cg — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 06:43:29 GMT

Just to let you know that I received a cc chargeback via PayPal a couple of months ago and even tho PayPal 'fought' on my behalf i lost the case. I sent to the address that came through PayPal, sent by trackable means, showed as delivered to the address, the customer left me postitive feedback but still the customer won. So they got their money back and a free hoodie. I was so angry (and still am). PayPals Seller Protection is a farce. They couldnt even tell me why I lost. I supposedly followed all PayPals rules to be protected and it was for naught.

Good luck and I hope you win.

Re: chargeback

kustomizer99 — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:02:42 GMT

This happened to me a few years ago - -the buyer was in the USA. Firstly the buyer claimed the item never arrived, and PayPal froze the funds in my account. After I proved that it HAD arrived and was signed for, Paypal still wouldn't release my money and I had to involve the Finanical Ombudsman.

So my funds were released, but almost immediately the buyer issued a chargeback and Paypal froze my funds again. I had to go back to the ombudsman again.

Anyway, after about five weeks of this nonsense I got my money and the buyer got kicked off eBay. Thanks again to the awesome bloke who helped me out with this... Owen, you there?

Key message - - go to the Financial Ombudsman.

Re: chargeback

digital*ghost — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:09:42 GMT

Howerver, I am bit concerned because when I looked at the tracking it shows as still waiting at the PO. Obviously, they have collected it, but it is bit worrying that AP does not update the info when they did sign for it.

The online tracking is largely irrelevant, though, as long as it shows it was scanned into the system, then all you need to give PayPal is proof that it was sent to the right address and you should qualify for Seller Protection.

(Just as an aside, the fraud squad is unlikely do anything unless the buyer gets their money back from you and refuses to repay it, after a specified period of time).

Re: chargeback

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:21:26 GMT

The online tracking is largely irrelevant, though, as long as it shows it was scanned into the system, then all you need to give PayPal is proof that it was sent to the right address and you should qualify for Seller Protection.

That is what I thought too, but when looking at PP info about CC chargebacks they talk about proof of delivery (NOT postage) and the best is to provide the copy of the signature!!! Looks like it is going to be a long process; if all else fails there is always the ombudsman.

I know that the Fraud Squad will not get my money back; just hope that if a kid put the item on her parents CC, they will realise that they have a choice to stop the chargeback or have charges laid against their daughter.

Re: chargeback

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:30:27 GMT

New development 🙂

Message just came through from the buyer:

"Hi,

Thank you for emailing me about this situation.

Unfortunately, my PayPal account is hacked around the same time that I made my purchase through you and PayPal have locked down my account while this is being looked at. I believe that what this means, is that all money that was sent through my PayPal account at that time is now being recalled and held pending the investigation.

I have receiving the item, thus positive feedback.

I am trying to getting to the bottom of this as soon as possible.

I am very sorry for all the inconvenience this causes you.

Regards,

XYZ"

If I was in her position I would have contacted all the sellers before they heard from PP, we will see.......

Re: chargeback

cq_tech — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:54:54 GMT

Well at least she's once again acknowledged receipt in writing so it appears she may be telling the truth; only time will tell, but I agree that she should have let her seller's know in advance.

I'd also stay closely in touch with Paypal, and perhaps even forward them a CC of your buyer's email, just in case.

Re: chargeback

*sparklz* — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:01:36 GMT

But surly if the buyer was to contact paypal and tell them which funds are ok to be released back to the sellers they could do that and the buyer just gets the disputed amount kept on hold.

Re: chargeback

digital*ghost — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:02:19 GMT

That is what I thought too, but when looking at PP info about CC chargebacks they talk about proof of delivery (NOT postage) and the best is to provide the copy of the signature!!! Looks like it is going to be a long process; if all else fails there is always the ombudsman.

PayPal kind of muddy the waters with chargebacks, because they occur on and off eBay, therefore there's two ways they can effectively be defended. Seller Protection is only available for eBay transactions, and only requires proof of postage to qualify - the bank (not PayPal, unless it is an unauthorised PP account usage of existing funds type of chargeback) makes the decision, and even if the bank grants the buyer (or themselves) the funds back, you won't pay if you qualify.

Chargebacks can be fought regardless of where the item was sold, and regardless of whether the seller has proof of postage/delivery (though a seller would have a relatively weak case without it). So some of the information on the PP website (IMHO) pertains to having to fight a chargeback for an off-eBay sale, where there is no Seller Protection and the only way you don't lose the funds is if you successfully defend against the dispute (hence proof of delivery to say the card owners address would be a good start).

Re: chargeback

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:03:49 GMT

I'd also stay closely in touch with Paypal, and perhaps even forward them a CC of your buyer's email, just in case.

Done 😉 Actually she replied through eBay message, so I assume they can also look at it 🙂

Re: chargeback

kopenhagen5 — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:14:05 GMT

I am sure you know super, but don't assume anything. Keep and provide everything. Sometimes one can get a staff member that is a little lax.

It sounds like you have proof positive, just make sure it falls on decision makers not automated computer systems or scripting responders.

Re: chargeback

ozsse — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:14:53 GMT

I am not that optimistic.

I had a similar case last year buyer bought a $300 product from me, exchanged good feedback as usual. FIVE months later he emailed me 2am in the morning asking what that paypal payment was for, and 5 minutes later he opened a Unauthorised payment case.

The next day I dig deep to find the consignment note and sent all the proof to paypal but I felt something's not right. I called the number on the consignment note and talked to this guy and he first said he has no problem with the received item and he didn't open the case and in a later phone call he said he cannot close the case etc etc just all kind of rubbish that doesn't make sense, so I know he's probably a scammer as he seems to know very well that an unauthorised payment case can be opened as far as FIVE months down the track (as I found out later) and he bet I no longer have any proof of shipment.

I won the case at the end but I want to advise you not to trust what the buyer had to say, in my case the buyer lied to me in the phone call, and it's even easier to talk rubbish in email.

The email from your buyer does not free you up from the trouble, nor it can be used as evidence, I would not believe anything she said, what these people do is to comfort you while leaving the case runs it course, they have nothing to lose do they? In fact they have a good chance to get their money back.

Remember paypal protects the buyers NOT sellers (99% of the time) so it is not a fair game, Paypal and buyers do NOT lose 99% of the time, even you may have all the seller's proof in the world but there is no guarantee you are protected.

Re: chargeback

***super_nova*** — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:46:28 GMT

I won the case at the end but I want to advise you not to trust what the buyer had to say, in my case the buyer lied to me in the phone call, and it's even easier to talk rubbish in email.

Do not worry I do not trust her; to start with she says she did not authorise the bank to do chargeback. PP says she did. I contacted all the sellers she dealt with; there are only 1/2 dozen, one replied they have not received chargeback, one did for $600, and the others have not replied as yet. that sounds strange, I would have thought if the bank automatically started chargebacks, they would do it for all the items.

But I am not happy with PP either; after sending them the copy of her eBay message admitting she authorised the payment, they replied saying that they will consider all the info when they make their decision IF they will fight the chargeback or not, and it will take 30 days!!!! Time to call PP, I think.

Re: chargeback

jensmanchester-australia — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:58:37 GMT

Super_nova - when you ring Paypal make sure you stress to them that as you are an Australian Seller you are covered under the Australian Paypal Seller Protection Policy as you have provided proof of postage as required.

Other countries have different criteria so it is important to make sure they are aware that only proof of postage is required and not proof of delivery.

Ask them to check that the documentation you have provided is sufficient or if there is anything else you need to provide - which there shouldn't be.

Once you have established that they have the documentation required advise them that you would like the funds returned to your account ASAP as you are covered under the Paypal Seller Protection Policy.

I would then give them approximately 14 days and if the funds have not been returned to your account by then I would ring them again and advise them if the funds haven't been returned within 48 hours you will contact the ombudsman.

The email regarding the 30 days is a standard email they sent out.