topic Re: paypal in Selling

paypal

surfocollecto — Mon, 25 May 2015 00:59:28 GMT

Here's one I'm sure you have all heard before. Been with eBay since US inception, been with PayPal since it's inception. Retired from professional selling some 10 years ago but kept accounts with eBay & accounts (multiple) with Paypal.

Mostly used the eBay accounts to buy but we are moving house so want to offload some of our household stuff locally & listed items on eBay. eBay make it compulsory to include Paypal as an option for payment.

All goes well, we sell some stuff, everybody is happy they get bargains because we sell cheap.

I state on all my listings that we much prefer cash on pick up but some guy buys 2 quality bedside table with a couple of matching bedside lamps thrown in for $35 ---- for some reason he pays with Paypal. All seems OK, the bloke picks up his stuff, can't believe it's so cheap & leaves positive feedback.

I check my Paypal account & they have frozen the funds ($35-commission) because they claim 1) We are new sellers& they need to verify we are legit? (after 15 years trading) 2) They need to verify the buyer has been sent the item & is satisfied with it & leaves positive feedback when this is obvious.

Fiirstly I reported fraudulent behaviour within Paypal's internal system stating they had stolem my funds to which I received a nonsensical email reply explaining the funds were in my account but held until they verified the buyer had been shipped the item & they were happy with it. What part of positive feedback translates into "buyer is not happy"!

So i telehone Paypal & get a nice Philipino person who keeps spouting the Paypal regulations about how they are obliged, in the interests of buyer &seller to steal my money for 21 days (or longer if they see fit) waiting to see if the buyer is happy or I am a "fraudulent seller".

Of course the nice Philipino person was not authorised to help me so he passed me on to another nice Philipino person (in Manilla) who supposedly is more senior. I asked the nice Philipino representative if he was actually in direct employ of the criminal organisation know as Paypal or simply answered the phone in Manilla from a call centre. Didn't really get a definite answer on that one. Anyway end of the day the crims at Paypal have my money & the bloke who took my stuff is probably also being debited so they have double dipped.

I know it makes no difference to eBay or Papal that my next step will be to cancel our Paypal accounts & I will discuss with my wife whether we may also just cancel our several eBay accounts after 15 or so years. Basically I just feel I should not support what this online trading company has become.

If you have been gypped by these people as well please comment on this post & let's see how long it takes for them to delete it.

Peace.

Re: paypal

the_great_she_elephant — Mon, 25 May 2015 02:52:40 GMT

You really need to post this on the Selling board. There are experienced sellers there who will be able to advise you. This is a chat board for non e-bay related topics.

Re: paypal

imastawka — Mon, 25 May 2015 02:56:05 GMT

Also good info on this thread -

http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/21-DAY-HOLD-FINANCIAL-SERVICE-OMBUDSMAN-WANTS-TO-HEAR-FROM-YOU/m-p/1649917/highlight/true#M87050

Re: paypal

surfocollecto — Mon, 25 May 2015 03:16:09 GMT

I posted on here because I believe it should be brought to the general public's attention. I don't expect advice from eBay boards on how to retrieve money from the thieves. It's only $35 less commission so I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. But what it has taught me is these crooks are totally untrustworthy so I won't be caught again, I'll simply cancel them as an acceptable form of payment.

Thanks.

Re: paypal

surfocollecto — Mon, 25 May 2015 03:17:05 GMT

Thanks for the link, I'm very happy to see that there is some gov't body who are investigating these criminals. I will add my complaint to the others.

It's not only the blatant lack of common decency these people exhibit, the situation proves (yet again) that unlike most corporate businesses eBay has no loyalty to it's customers. When this happens eventually the business suffers so hopefully people will keep up the pressure by complaining.

Re: paypal

imastawka — Mon, 25 May 2015 03:22:59 GMT

The thing is, if you report them to FSO they will release your money immediately.

It costs them money if the FSO investigates apparently

To sell on ebay, you must offer paypal. I don't see them as a problem.

You've just got your goat up. Calm down and all will be well

Paypal and ebay are in the process of splitting.

They will be 2 different entities then

Re: paypal

j*oono — Mon, 25 May 2015 03:30:28 GMT

Yes, it would really be annoying but not something to take personally as it's something that Paypal do occasionally. I have seen it happen to very big sellers that have switched lines or if they haven't sold on that account for a while. It does seem strange that they have frozen the funds on something that you already have feedback for.

I would be very careful of allowing anyone to pay with Paypal if you sell that home gym. I wouldn't be letting it leave my home without the cash in my hand.

Re: paypal

clarry100 — Mon, 25 May 2015 05:16:39 GMT

Even tho your account is a long registerd one the fact that you sell infrequently and therefore below their threshold is what brings them to treat you as tho you are an untrusted newbie.

We raised a formal complaint with the FOS when they did this to us. Within 48-hours the funds were released and they have never done it again.

Re: paypal

allfixelectrical — Mon, 25 May 2015 05:23:03 GMT

Go straight to the Financial Ombudsman and file a complaint against PayPal.

https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute

Re: paypal

surfocollecto — Mon, 25 May 2015 07:11:30 GMT

Thank you all for your interest & advice. I have registered a complaint with FOS Australia & it has been acknowledged in an email. I fully understand all the modified bs that eBay & paypal have concoct with the barrages of updates which only inform you of yet another ammendment to TOS that will only be their way & never yours (ours).

This time eBay may have lost me as a buyer, therefore it impacts on the sellers of eBay, they hav ecertainly lost me in future as a seller, once my current stuff is ended I won't use eBay again. My wife & I have several IDs on eBay & all of them over the years have a great feedback response from our buyers, we used to run 2 businesses very successfully but retired more than 10 years back. eBay was a very good platform to reach a local & international market & we already had an established streetfront business so we accepted every form of credit cards & never used paypal for selling.

We have simply wanted to offload some of our excess household stuff lately because we are moving house, other than that we usually use eBay as a first stop for IT stuff & other items, I have bought training stuff from eBay people, not always because it's cheap but I support small business enterprise whenver I can. Sadly I no longer wish to continue, this episode with Paypal has soured the whole process of online buying & selling.

Cheers.

Re: paypal

surfocollecto — Mon, 25 May 2015 07:21:46 GMT

Thanks for your interest, however eBay only allows paypal as a payment option for credit cards unless you have your own bank facilities. This is usually not viable for a private person who only wants to sell personal excess items. Calming down has nothing to do with it, Paypal was used contrary to my instructions & thereafter Paypal STOLE my money. When somebody takes your stuff & won't give it back to you it is THEFT/STEALING. Of course my "goat is up" somebody stole from me! Not only that they are covering it up by claiming they have the right to do so because they changed the original agreement I had with them. The way paypal operates is contrary to Australian consumer laws & practices.

Re: paypal

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 25 May 2015 09:55:11 GMT

Sorry but annoying and unfair as it may be you agreed to abide by Paypal policies at the time you opened the account and any changes you were informed of in the future. Every member received an email prior to when the 21 day hold was going to be implemented which laid out the new policy and told the recipient that if they agreed to abide by the revised terms they need do nothing but if they didn't agree they had to close their account. It is not true that Paypal is the only way of accepting payments if you do not have a merchant facility, Paymate is also a recognised, allowed payment method.

The reason Paypal is backing down when people complain is simply because it would cost them tme and money to fight their corner but should they decide to do so I fear they would win.

Re: paypal

digital*ghost — Mon, 25 May 2015 12:17:01 GMT

@phorum_junkie* wrote:

The reason Paypal is backing down when people complain is simply because it would cost them tme and money to fight their corner but should they decide to do so I fear they would win.

My understanding is that only successful complaints cost PayPal money (in terms of paying out a third party, there may be minor costs involved in having their decisions investigated, can't see it really costing that much to say "but we have a right to, and here's why", in all reality), but if they were so confident in this policy, it would be better for them to stand their ground, surely, and put a stop to all these investigations (I daresay if they conceded to the investigations and the decision was in favour of PP, people would stop advising sellers to make complaints, at any rate).

Besides which, it's an eBay policy. In other words, it's ebay instructing PayPal to put a hold on the funds - eBay, who have no hand in the payment processing, but like their finger in the pie, anyway. I would venture to say that's why they cave, because they only do it at the say so of a third-party who really shouldn't be having a say in what happens to the money in the first place, despite the fact that eBay's user agreement now contains certain authorisation permissions. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, though).

Re: paypal

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 26 May 2015 10:27:29 GMT

Although it may be that ebay is now asking Paypal to enforce the 21 day hold the ability for Paypal to do this was writtten into the terms and conditions some years ago, it made a bit of a minor splash on the boards at the time but as it was rarely used in Australia I guess folk just forgot about it.

Re: paypal

surfocollecto — Wed, 27 May 2015 07:59:42 GMT

Just a slight correction, not that anybody gives a rat's, with my earliest ID I have been with eBay for 17 years. Over that period by eBay's new system of accounting my average sale per item has been over US$200. Lots of happy camper customers, only one complaint from a person who obviously forgot to take their meds. none of this matters, eBay/PayPal decided to steal my money using the excuse that I haven't traded enough & also they can't be sure the buyer is satisfied I haven't sold them something they may not be satisfied with even though they picked up the item & left highly complementary feedback.

Bunch of crooks, Ned Kelly had nothing on these people!.

Re: paypal

surfocollecto — Wed, 27 May 2015 23:23:16 GMT

3 days after contacting the ombudsman & filing a complaint PaPal released my funds. Thanks for all the advice on this board.