topic Re: Query re case refund appeal. in Selling

Query re case refund appeal.

mitzi56 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:47:20 GMT

I recently sold a poster. Sent the item the same day payment was received, emailed the tracking no. to the buyer and thought all was good. Ten days later, buyer sends an email stating the item hadn't arrived even though the Aus. Post system indicated delivery had been made for that tracking no. I opened up a case with Aus. Post. The buyer opened a case on me with eBay and to my disbelief, eBay refunded the buyer in full, so I lost the poster and my funds because eBay said that was the resolution. Am I missing something??????? I appealed, but to this point, no reply from eBay Customer Centre. This just can't be right or fair for sellers surely?

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

bsal6160 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 10:50:22 GMT

Look at it from the buyers perspective. The buyer has paid for the item and not received it. Of course they are entitled to a full refund. Lost in transit is the sellers issues to resolve with Aust Post.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

clarry100 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:11:46 GMT

I must be missing something because you said you had tracking that shows it was delivered. Under those circumstances you should not lose an INR case. Get on the phone to EBay and make sure they check the tracking status. They can refund the buyer of course but it should be their nickel in this case not yours.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

davewil1964 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:12:44 GMT

@bsal6160 wrote:
Look at it from the buyers perspective. The buyer has paid for the item and not received it. Of course they are entitled to a full refund. Lost in transit is the sellers issues to resolve with Aust Post.

With the 'insignificant' rider that in Australia proof of postage is proof of delivery. Therefore, if the seller can prove postage eBay can refund the buyer from their non-taxed revenue.

After all, eBay chose to provide a money back guarantee to onlne shoplifters, most of the terms of which are, politely, not legal.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

black*poppy — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:46:07 GMT

If you have a tracking number that shows the item delivered then you are covered. No argument.

Get on the phone to ebay. Often these cases are resolved automatically by the system - you need to speak to a real person and get them to review the tracking information.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

mitzi56 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:43:35 GMT

Thank you very much for your feedback and yes, I definitely have proof of post and the receipt with the parcel tracking no. that Aus. Post allocated. As the seller, I did attempt to sort out with AP, but they insisted they deal with the buyer, so forwarded the email to him - have not heard anything more from AP. Hadn't thought of a phone call to eBay, but will certainly be doing that tomorrow. Cheers.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:11:36 GMT

Surely when the buyer opened the not received claim you provided ebay with the tracking number, if you didn't then it is hardly ebay's fault if they refunded the buyer.

If you did provide it then why were you wasting your time with AP, their tracking says delivered so what on earth do yoou expect them to do?

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

mitzi56 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:34:54 GMT

The buyer contacted me first and I went straight to Aus. Post. forwarding any and all emails to the buyer that Aus. Post sent to me. The buyer did not advise he was opening a case, but when he did, I stated very clearly that the buyer had a tracking no. and I also gave that to eBay in my response.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

thecatspjs — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:59:41 GMT

As another poster advised, it is best to ring them to sort out.

Even better if the option is there request a callback, so you don't have to wait so long on the phone.

According to their own rules it appears as you should get your $$$ reimbursed, but it might take a few calls to get this result.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

clarry100 — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 22:15:57 GMT

Absolutely...

Ebay can refund under their MBG rules, thats their choice and their funds.

But in this case it appears you have 100% seller protection so this refund should not come out of your funds.

Keep on the case until you get a resolution in your favour.

By the way if they still do not find in your favoiur then open a formal complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

Present all the evidence in the case. This action will get them to reverse their decision.

https://www.fos.org.au/

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

go-tazz — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 23:38:51 GMT

So is the tracking number the free one that AP put on for you,(not registered,express,etc tracking).

If so eBay may be unwilling to to give you a refund as that could impact on their bottom line.

Tracking is tracking and all forms of it should be accepted,(with eBay they may try to say that the free tracking

is not sufficient),

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

black*poppy — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:56:47 GMT

In addition to my previous post, I understand (have not tested this) that if the tracking shows as delivered, it is up to the buyer, NOT the seller, to request an investigation with AP bacause they have to argue the case that they didn't receive it when the tracking shows otherwise.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

dylan11235813 — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:38:22 GMT

@black*poppy wrote:
In addition to my previous post, I understand (have not tested this) that if the tracking shows as delivered, it is up to the buyer, NOT the seller, to request an investigation with AP bacause they have to argue the case that they didn't receive it when the tracking shows otherwise.

That is correct as I contacted Australia Post last week when the tracking said something had been delivered. They specifically said the buyer had to contact them.

I have contacted Australia Post 3 times in the past year for items that say had been delivered when not, then the item gets delivered a day or two later (according to the buyers). It has always been with express post items for me.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

wendshees-rocks — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:38:18 GMT

I had an express post item stolen from my front door a month ago. My bedroom is right next to the front door. I was awake but still in bed . I heard the delivery bloke drop it on the ground and as I knew what was in it, I knew it was the right sound hitting the ground.

A minute later I heard footsteps again and thought he must have missed something and brought it in. I got straight up, went straight to the door and nothing. The second footsteps was someone coming in and stealing my package. I suppose a bright yellow satchel stuck out like dogs doodles and was too tempting for the low life. Not a thing I could do about it.

If I was a nasty person I could have told the seller it didn't arrive, but I would assume the tracking would have said delivered (he didn't give me the number ).

I have to wonder if some of the items that are saying delivered where the buyer hasn't got it, if they too may have been stolen. Especially if they were express items sitting at the front door. Mine was taken in under 90 seconds so I could assume in some cases it could be possible.

My delivery guy did confirm that he had dropped that express satchel off the day before.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

cq_tech — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:03:31 GMT

Jesus, my delivery contractor doesn't leave me anything at all unless I sign for it, and I've lived here 27 years!

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

mitzi56 — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 22:53:05 GMT

UPDATE: After innumerable emails back and forth to eBay from me and them (generally a different signature each time), the upshot seems to be that because I gave the tracking no. direct to the buyer and didn't log it into the system, I am at fault and should be attempting to sort it out with Aus. Post. eBay stated in an email that (really) I have to be responsibile for the delivery of the article - not sure how one does that, perhaps ride shot-gun in the AP truck on its way south 3000kms!!!!!!!! I have tried until I'm breathless to convince them that the buyer had all the information when he lodged the case, but to no avail. I will pusue this to the enth degree, as in my mind I couldn't possibly have done more than I did, but still get penalised and have funds removed from my account. The last email advised the case was closed and they had no further control over it - just gets better and better!!

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

cq_tech — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 00:01:15 GMT

Paypal have quite clearly breached their own terms and conditions in this case, so rather than continuing to bash your head against the corporate brick wall, go straight to https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute and lodge an on-line dispute with the FOS, explaining everything you've stated in here, and I'll virtually guarantee that Paypal will refund all of your money (plus an apology).

I'd personally be inclined to speak one last time with a Paypal CS rep and tell them exactly what you're doing, as it's quite possible they'll back down and pay up once you've made it quite clear that you intend carrying out your threat, but if they still refuse, go ahead and lodge your complaint, and if the FOS find Paypal to have erred in their decision (which they clearly have), not only will the FOS instruct Paypal to refund you immediately, they will also levy a fairly substantial fine on Paypal as well - something in the order of a couple of thousand dollars or more, so it's definitely in Paypal's best interest for them to accede to your request, before it costs them 100s of $$$s more than it needs to. BTW, do so via phone, and definitely NOT email as these are routinely ignored.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

englishrosegardens — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 00:36:51 GMT

If people put the tracking numbers on ebay it'd deter a lot of scammers because they can see it and know it's in the system. Yes, it takes time to do it but I'd much rather spend a few seconds entering the number in the system than waste hours trying to defend a case later on. Tracking numbers are a deterrent and insurance, but only if used properly.

I also believe entering the tracking number as soon as an item is posted creates goodwill between the seller and buyer, and I'd do it for that reason alone. I get annoyed when sellers leave me wondering what's going on and I'm not likely to leave as good a feedback as I otherwise would have when the goods arrive.

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

allfixelectrical — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 04:31:01 GMT

Report ebay to Acorn and if the money was taken from a PayPal account, report PayPal to the financial ombudsman.

https://report.acorn.gov.au/

https://forms.fos.org.au/onlinedispute

Re: Query re case refund appeal.

ambercat16 — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 04:39:13 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
Paypal have quite clearly breached their own terms and conditions in this case, so rather than continuing to bash your head against the corporate brick wall, go straight to https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute and lodge an on-line dispute with the FOS, explaining everything you've stated in here, and I'll virtually guarantee that Paypal will refund all of your money (plus an apology).

I'd personally be inclined to speak one last time with a Paypal CS rep and tell them exactly what you're doing, as it's quite possible they'll back down and pay up once you've made it quite clear that you intend carrying out your threat, but if they still refuse, go ahead and lodge your complaint, and if the FOS find Paypal to have erred in their decision (which they clearly have), not only will the FOS instruct Paypal to refund you immediately, they will also levy a fairly substantial fine on Paypal as well - something in the order of a couple of thousand dollars or more, so it's definitely in Paypal's best interest for them to accede to your request, before it costs them 100s of $$$s more than it needs to. BTW, do so via phone, and definitely NOT email as these are routinely ignored.

It looks like the buyer opened the case with eBay not Paypal. Is it still possible to involve the FOS?