topic Re: DSR blackmail? in Selling

DSR blackmail?

jiggity-jig — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:43:13 GMT

Sold an item yesterday and the buyer included the following message with the PayPal payment.

"Do not leave at front door, do not safe drop, if this is dropped at my door you will get NO stars. Sorry but this has happened to many times."

I contacted Australia Post and they say I can attach instructions to the package but this does not guarantee it will not be left anyway. I also contacted eBay and their advice is that the buyer would be within his rights to leave a low DSR to reflect an unsatisfactory buying experience but that the circumstances could be "reviewed" later.

My items are listed as free postage with reference to Australia Post regular parcel post and a notation under conditions to contact me prior to purchase for any specific shipping requirements. I've sent a message to the buyer including all this and indicating that once the item has been lodged with AP it is beyond my control requesting that he contact me with instructions for a different delivery method or cancel the transaction as I cannot meet those conditions.

No reply as yet though it's still early but I would be interested in thoughts on how I should proceed if he doesn't respond.

Re: DSR blackmail?

pennyforum14 — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:05:05 GMT

I would email the customer and tell her, "I am happy to put a large notation on the parcel "DO NOT SAFE DROP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES", and send you a photograph of the parcel showing the instruction, to put your your mind at ease and to assure you that I have done all within my power to prevent AP from safe dropping your item. It will then be up to AP, but I do not think it is fair of you to penalise me for something over which I have no control."

Re: DSR blackmail?

dylan11235813 — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:20:37 GMT

Tell them sorry but you have cancelled the sale (unless you really do want to deal with them). Requesting a service outside what is offered is against the rules./....;.I have had ebay say the same thing and they should know better......Put a complaint in with the department of fair trading in NSW..

I get similar requests sometimes (with no threats) but I just post as normal and nothing has ever happened as far as I know. No stars is like 5 stars isn;t it?

Re: DSR blackmail?

*tippy*toes* — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:49:05 GMT

If the buyer wants to leave NO stars, then that's a good thing as no stars can't hurt you. It's only if they decide to leave one star that it will hurt you.

I would be suggesting to the buyer, if parcels being left on the front door step is such an issue, they should request from sellers signature on delivery (BEFORE they pay). They can pay the extra however much it is and they have to go to the PO to sign for it when they get carded for it. They need to ask before they pay so the extra can be added to the invoice.

I had a buyer months ago who was buying quite a few things and sent a message asking that when I send the invoice, could I add signature on delivery as she had had lots of issues with things being stolen from her front door. No problems at all. As it was, she spent a few hundred bucks, so I didn't end up charging her anything for postage, but she still got her signature on delivery and was happy. She came back a few times to buy more stuff.

Your buyer should have mentioned this prior to paying so that you could have charged them for signature on delivery (or registered post if it was being sent as a large letter).

Re: DSR blackmail?

joethenuts — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:12:00 GMT

hi dylan ,, as long as the buyer pays for an alternative aranged shiping , the buyer is allowed to. as soon as a buyer pays its theres. and if a buyer wants it signed and pays extra for it , no problem. if the buyer has not aranged a different service , then the seller can just send as normal.

Re: DSR blackmail?

jiggity-jig — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:28:23 GMT

Thanks everyone for your input.

I could attach the instructions and send the item thus fulfilling my obligations but given that he has indicated vehemently that there is an issue with safe dropping that really won't help if the item is left and stolen, which i assume is the problem.

My inclination if he doesn't respond soon is to return his payment and cancel the transaction on the basis that I am unable to meet the additional conditions imposed post sale.

I wonder if he realises that no stars will not have the desired effect.

Re: DSR blackmail?

*tippy*toes* — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:57:44 GMT

If you do cancel (and I can't blame you if you do), he can still leave you feedback and trash your stars. Make sure you keep the messages between you so that if he does decide to trash your feedback, you have evidence that he was making unreasonable demands after payment had been made. The other option is to ask him to pay the extra for signature on delivery and then there would be no problem.

I would also include in your next message that if you don't hear back then you will have no choice buy to cancel the transaction. That way he has been warned and eBay will be able to see that in the event it does go pear shaped.

Please keep us posted with the outcome.

Re: DSR blackmail?

dylan11235813 — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:58:41 GMT

The thing is once someone purchases something they have agreed to the terms........refunding will earn you a defect.....If someone is requesting something outside of the terms then ebay should cancel the sale. Good luck with that.......

Re: DSR blackmail?

saarzi — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 01:20:35 GMT

"Hi blah blah,

We're sure you can understand the actions or policies of a third party company or their individual employees that we do not control over (Auspost) are beyond our reach. Therefore, we cannot guarantee where they will or wont leave a parcel. In addition, threatening to leave negative feedback or low / no stars could be considered DSR blackmail, which is strictly against EBay policy, and could see your account suspended. Because your account is linked to your credit cards and personal details, your email to us could leave a black mark against your name for a long time to come, if reported.

We very much appreciate your business though, and have two options that might help you -

1. We can send the parcel REGISTERED post. This would cost an addition $3.50, and you would need to sign for the item on delivery, or pick it up from the post office. However, its probably the safest way to ensure you recieve your parcel.

2. We can cancel the sale. We understand sometimes that things dont work, and are happy to process a mutual cancelation in this instance.

Please let us know what you would like to do. We aim to help our customers as much as we can and look forward to your positive feedback and 5 star rating.

Many thanks"

Its direct and takes control of the situation without being too unprofessional. Note *could*, result in suspension etc. therefore, you arent lying. They wont be silly enough to leave a neg or low stars after that.

Re: DSR blackmail?

joethenuts — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 01:25:21 GMT

hi jig , in what should of happen is the buyer should of contacted you first and spoke to you , about the parcel.

but he did not , but there are other reasons that nobody has stated why he does not want it dropped off at the front door. as i have seen with my eyes a few times a parcel gets dropped off at your front door and they dont ring the bell, because they would have to wait for the person to answere it, maybe the buyer is disabled on a wheel chair , and does not go to the front that often.and does not want the parcel to stay there for a while.

Re: DSR blackmail?

cathyjoyjoy — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 02:06:37 GMT

A difficult customer. Someone who states they may leave you NO STARS may actually mean LOW STARS for all you know. You have NO control over how Australia Post deals with the article UNLESS the buyer pays extra for registered post. I'm astounded that you have no recourse on this and you received the response you did from ebay. Try contacting them again and ask for a callback and ask to speak to a supervisor if you get a similar answer.

Otherwise, buyers could place all sorts of requests AFTER they have paid for a particular delivery service ........ "If the article is not placed on the third chair on my verandah, I'll trash your stars".

Make sure you block this buyer once all has been sorted.

Re: DSR blackmail?

cathyjoyjoy — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 02:11:52 GMT

That is a very professional response Sarrzi, but if someone wants to neg you in the end, they will.

And not everything we see as feedback extortion is interpreted by ebay in the same way unfortunately.

Re: DSR blackmail?

*tippy*toes* — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 02:12:04 GMT

@cathyjoyjoy wrote:
A difficult customer. Someone who states they may leave you NO STARS may actually mean LOW STARS for all you know. You have NO control over how Australia Post deals with the article UNLESS the buyer pays extra for registered post. I'm astounded that you have no recourse on this and you received the response you did from ebay. Try contacting them again and ask for a callback and ask to speak to a supervisor if you get a similar answer.

Otherwise, buyers could place all sorts of requests AFTER they have paid for a particular delivery service ........ "If the article is not placed on the third chair on my verandah, I'll trash your stars".

Make sure you block this buyer once all has been sorted.

I'd be blocking them now so they can't buy anything else. It won't affect the current transaction.

Re: DSR blackmail?

jiggity-jig — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 02:35:38 GMT

Thanks again to everyone for the comments.

The basic issue is that the buyer didn't read the listing properly before purchase particularly relating to the shipping, which surpries nobody of course, and then goes on to compound the problem by not communicating.

I'll try eBay again as cathyjoyjoy has suggested and unless they can give me a definitive course of action I will give the buyer until tonight to respond before doing anything as it was after hours when the purchase was made yesterday. I also have a phone number but I'm reluctant at this point to move outside the eBay message system.

Whatever happens I suspect I'll be wearing some sort of negative.

Re: DSR blackmail?

everard6920 — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 02:38:43 GMT

I'd post with a signature (it's only a few dollars more) so that there is no chance of a safe drop. And then I'd block her so you never have to deal with her again.

Re: DSR blackmail?

digital*ghost — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:56:25 GMT

Australia Post pretty much made it so getting signature on delivery is the only way a parcel won't be safe-dropped. They first withdrew it as a delivery instruction on C&S, and then stopped issuing the stickers, while deliverers were instructed to outright ignore the instruction on any package (excepting where SOD is required, I suppose).

I would have personally informed the buyer of the above, because they need to understand their expectations are impossible and they are not purchasing the right postage service in order to ensure their needs are met.

I'm probably going to get a bit of criticism for this (and I actually completely understand why), but I adjusted my site settings to prevent buyers from leaving me messages during checkout. I didn't really want to do that, but the fact was that I got notes on maybe 2% of orders, and 95% of those notes were nothing more than demands that didn't do anything except annoy me (postage instructions not relevant to the service I use, post ASAP!!!!! leave me feedback, only send me A-grade ones [when they bought the b-grade] etc etc etc). So... enough was enough. 😞

Now, people have to actually write to me properly and ask, not just leave a quick note and then expect their wish is my command, and I've found virtually no one will message unless it's actually genuinely important.

Re: DSR blackmail?

jiggity-jig — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:04:56 GMT

Thank you very much everyone for taking the time to post your comments and suggestions.

My buyer finally made contact and we managed to work it out. He agreed to have this one sent with Signature on Delivery, though he claims to have had them left in the past with nobody home (me too), and for future purchases he is going to set up Parcel Collect with his local PO, a service that he wasn't aware existed. A very frustrated man who works long hours and has had several parcels disappear when left on his front porch in plain view of the street.

I also managed to get more sense from an eBay call back this afternoon with the rep agreeing that it was an unrealistic expectation on the part of the buyer and that he could see from the messages that I was making every effort possible.

Re: DSR blackmail?

falconsportspack — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:51:50 GMT

@joethenuts wrote:
but there are other reasons that nobody has stated why he does not want it dropped off at the front door. as i have seen with my eyes a few times a parcel gets dropped off at your front door and they dont ring the bell, because they would have to wait for the person to answere it,

This happened to me about 8 1/2 years ago the day I received some very important documents. The parcel contractor must have been very quiet for me not to hear them & I only found the documents late in the afternoon sitting at the front door. I was not very happy about that. This was at the house I used to live in & the front door was only about 6 metres from the road.

The photo below shows where I was sitting in relation to the front door when the contractor would have stealthily delivered the documents. As I said, the contractor must have been very quiet.

And what were those documents? Only the contracts for the house that I now own & live in!

Re: DSR blackmail?

rocket2retro — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:10:34 GMT

Australia Post have their own red DO NOT DROP SHIP stickers If you ask your post office person they will be able to put them on for you (I'd get him/her to 'plaster' the parcel with them for this buyer!)