topic Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands in Selling

Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

bdstratton — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:10:11 GMT

I need help I sold a Generator on Ebay this week that was listed as an 11 KVA Generator with close up pictures of the model number and ports etc.

It was listed as pick up only in Melbourne

I sold it to a man in Sydney who insisted on driving 11 hours to come pick it up. When he arrived he accpted the generator and signed an invoice to say he had accpted the item in it's condition and he paid in cash and took it home.

The next day the buyer called saying the Generator was not as described he said i lied about the Kilowatts Amps of the Generator. He claims it's only 8amps

i did not lie on the listing - i used the original advert details and specs from the place I bought it from.

This is were it got disturbing the buyer called my parents a number and made threats to call the Police, His Lawyer etc if we did not meet his demands,

he kept calling over and over bullying my parents (he had their number because they were helping with the sale)

he yelled at my father and was really aggressive

To try to resolve the issue i offered to pay for a courier to collect the generator and bring it back to melbourne but he refused that.

and then i would refund the item once it was returned

The buyer refused the offer

He is demading i refund the cost of the drive to and from his house in sydney. (An 11 hour drive)

And he wants the refund as well for the item

I think these demands are unreasonable - what should i do? Any advise would be appreaciated as i'm not sure how to deal with this guy.

He is one of the worst buyer's weve ever come across.

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

*tippy*toes* — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:18:25 GMT

Keep a copy of the ad and ignore any further calls from this person. Suggest your parents do the same. Assuming his number comes up on caller ID? As the item was pick up, he has NO buyer protection, so you owe him nothing. Yes, he could try and take you to court, but it will end up costing him more than a new generator. In the event that he does try and take you to court, your ad will win the case for you and he will have egg on his face. There are several threads I have seen in regards to sellers being taken to court (and winning).

If you know which phone carrier he uses (often you can tell by the phone number if it's a mobile), contact that provider and let them know their customer is harrassing you. I would also get onto your phone provider and get his number blocked from their end. You can block his number from your phone but apparently they can still send text messages (according to a close friend who is being harrassed and stalked by her husbands ex wife).

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

amber-eyed-girl — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 14:59:50 GMT

Mobile numbers are portable and can be any provider. The best bet is to keep all written messages in case of any further trouble. Advise eBay of the nature of the calls so it can go on the buyer ID's record.

On an iPhone (with up-to-date software) blocking a number should block texts also. The sender won't know, the intended recipient won't get them.

However, I would want to know if the buyer was sending any potentially threatening texts. I just would not respond to them. Particularly as the buyer knows where the seller lives (albeit 11 hours away).

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

mbselections00 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 15:05:39 GMT

What a horrible person that buyer is !! Definitely have no more communication of any type with them.

As well as what tippy has advised, I would also ring eBay and report the buyer for harassment and give them all the details.

If in the interim period he rings again, I wouldn't answer (assuming you have calling number display & his number isn't private), but keep a record of the times of the phone calls, even if they do show as Private - long story, nothing to do with eBay and to be honest I cannot remember exact specifics, but I do recall, once they have harassed you 5 times, your telephone provider and/or the police can and will intervene - they can trace the 'Private' number, but the time of the calls is critical. Once the Police have determined it is the same person each time, they will visit the caller - should put a stop to any further threats.

Best of luck, try not to stress about it, my understanding is they don't have a leg to stand on - they inspected the item before taking it and signed the invoice ! When he arrived he accpted the generator and signed an invoice to say he had accpted the item in it's condition and he paid in cash and took it home.

Keep us posted . . . . . . . .

Hahaha, I'm a slow typer : as well as what amber said also

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

mbselections00 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 15:21:42 GMT

@*tippy*toes* wrote:
As the item was pick up, he has NO buyer protection, so you owe him nothing. Yes, he could try and take you to court, but it will end up costing him more than a new generator. In the event that he does try and take you to court, your ad will win the case for you and he will have egg on his face. There are several threads I have seen in regards to sellers being taken to court (and winning).

The listing for the generator had 30 day Return Policy with Refund - just for laddybugs peace of mind (and my curiosity) - is this definitely over ridden with Cash on Pick Up ? My understanding is it is, but then again I have never experienced it being put to the test. And also, even if it was applicable, the buyer would be responsible for return in same condition - yes ?

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

bdstratton — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:01:44 GMT

i did not deny the refund

i haven't even spent his money (i have stored it in a safe in case he does return the generator)

I have offered the refund to the buyer as long as he returns the generator

and i also offered to pay a courier to pick it up for him

but he is demanding i also pay his travel costs from sydney to melbourne which i think is unfair because i did not make the decision to drive all this way to melbourne to buy the generator

that was the buyers decision and he is being unreasonable

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

digupatin — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:32:16 GMT

If the buyer continues to abuse you or make threats let them know that you will be reporting them to ACORN and follow through if they continue to harass you.

https://report.acorn.gov.au/

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

mbselections00 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:54:06 GMT

@laddybug-2011 wrote:
i did not deny the refund

i haven't even spent his money (i have stored it in a safe in case he does return the generator)

I have offered the refund to the buyer as long as he returns the generator

and i also offered to pay a courier to pick it up for him

but he is demanding i also pay his travel costs from sydney to melbourne which i think is unfair because i did not make the decision to drive all this way to melbourne to buy the generator

that was the buyers decision and he is being unreasonable

Sorry if I caused any confusion. I don't think he has a leg to stand on as it was Cash on Pick up and he inspected the goods. It was his choice to drive 11 hours, not your problem. Under NO circumstances pay for a Courier to collect it - he could give the courier anything - even an empty box !

I only posted about your Return Policy on the listing because I thought you may have felt obliged to honour it, where in fact I don't think you have to - and personally, in your case, after the abuse you and your parents have suffered, if I did not have to honour it, I most certainly wouldn't. Whatever his argument, he inspected it before paying and taking it.

It sounds to me because you have been more than reasonable - ie offering a refund AND to pay for Courier to collect, he thinks he can intimidate you by making threats - as I said previously, this is one horrible buyer.

Make sure you ring eBay

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

erg-auto-electrical-wholesalers — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:52:30 GMT

Offer a refund, and yes I have had a similar situation.
It was his choice to drive that far.
I sold a motorcycle as is, and he drove 4 hours. I took the photos and said if you come you take it as is, regardless of if it works or as it is described.
Solved a lot of issues.

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

erg-auto-electrical-wholesalers — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 22:53:46 GMT

What is your return policy on that item?

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

mbselections00 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 23:08:51 GMT

@electrical-rebuilders-group wrote:
What is your return policy on that item?

When I checked the Sold listing it was 30 day / Refund, BUT my understanding is that with Cash on Pick up, the Return Policy no longer applies as the buyer has the opportunity to inspect and decide not to go ahead, hence my previous post. I am just not 100% certain and have never experienced this situation myself.

Am hoping someone who has been there, done that, so to speak will drop by and clarify that point for laddybugs peace of mind

Edit : Even if Return / Refund does apply, it will still be up to Buyer to return AT HIS EXPENSE in same condition - if he can somehow claim under Australian Law as opposed to eBay Policy - but he did sign dor receipt etc, so as tippy said, he probably wouldn't stand a chance in court & he probably knows that too

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 23:15:16 GMT

Are you sure it is an 11kva as stated in the listing and not an 8kva ?

But even so, with such unruly behaviour, I wouldn't be assisting the buyer now.

He doesn't deserve the respect if he treated your parents so poorly.

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

phorum_junkie* — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 23:54:04 GMT

The buyer inspected the goods and accepted them As Is. I would not have offered to supply a courier to return it and the very fact he has refused that more than generous offer makes me think he is trying to scam you.

I would not reply to any more emails and if he calls again tell him that you are recording his calls and any further harassment will be reported to the police.

I would then buy a very loud whistle and if he rings again give him a blast..

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

bdstratton — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:57:36 GMT

my policy was item was sold as it

but if change of mind from buyer

i would refund if returned within 30 days from the sale date

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

bdstratton — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 01:06:45 GMT

look im not an expert on generator's ill admit

I used the auction title from the original ebay advert i saw my generator on when i bought it myself

i posted a close up of the model number and I gave the supplier details to the buyer

the photo attached is from the original advert

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

kopenhagen5 — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 01:11:40 GMT

In that case, I would be only offering the refund as per your listing BUT the buyer needs to return the item.

You are not interesting in helping a person whom abuses, so just take the stand of being professional only, and don't bend.

There appears to be some of the same model 11kva and some 8.4kva.

Perhaps buyer looked it up and seeing as the majority seem to be the 8.4, he thinks it is.

He may have jumped the gun and be incorrect.

Edit - I thought you may have gone from your seller's specs and if you are to communicate any further with your buyer, I would attach that pic in messages. The only ambiguous part is the OSE part.

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

mbselections00 — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 01:20:22 GMT

If they are the ones I am thinking of - he may have since read up on them and be having buyers remorse

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

clarry100 — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 01:34:50 GMT

Rating generators in Kva is really a marketing gimmick to make them seem more powerful than they really are.

But your buyer should have done the research and known this before he assumed that 11Kva meant it would deliver 11,000 watts continuously.

Kva has a power factor built into the equation and that is usually about 0.8.

So to get somewhere closer to what it will actually deliver in Watts you have to multiply by the 0.8.

So 11Kva x 0.8 = approx 8,800 watts.

And this may be a peak load for short durations. ie NOT continuous.

What it can deliver safely continuously may be even less than that.

There are very few manufacturers who will state the real actual power their generator can deliver continuously as it makes them appear less powerful than the rest who use Kva.

So I think your buyer has gone away and done his research after he found it would not run his application and is trying to blame you for his technical error of judgement.

In short I would not pander to him especially after his arrogant treatment of your family.

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

iainlouden — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 02:05:26 GMT

It is possible to redirect incoming calls from selected phone numbers to another number.

I haven't used this feature for a few years now but I'm sure it is still available.

I have used it to redirect threatening/stalking calls to a Pysch center or the talking clock...and in one case I redirected a pest's mobile calls to their own home phone and visa versa.

Just google Selective Call Forwarding and see if your parent's phone provider has this feature.

You have made a more than generous offer of a courier to collect the generator and this has been rejected so just ignore the buyer from now on and block them from being able to buy from you again or from contacting you in the future.

They will not win any Ebay dispute and can only leave a negative feedback for you at worst.

Re: Agressive Buyer Making Threats and Unreasonable demands

dazzledayz — Mon, 22 Feb 2016 04:00:06 GMT

@laddybug-2011 wrote:

The next day the buyer called saying the Generator was not as described he said i lied about the Kilowatts Amps of the Generator. He claims it's only 8amps

i did not lie on the listing - i used the original advert details and specs from the place I bought it from.

Mr Dazzledayz (Col) replying here.

You are both right and wrong unfortunately.

The problem is the term OSE (Other Seller Equivalent)

@This is not the "Continuous Output" but rather a factored rating @Cos 0.8.

11Kva x 0.08 = 8.8Kva

It probably does produce 11Kva on start up but can only produce the lower output in continuous use (and then not for protracted continuous use).

I you were looking to power heavy draw appliance like a say a big welder, you would need to allow a continuous genset output rating at least 50% greater thatn the appliances requirements.

This is pretty much the same as audio amplifiers, especially in the car domain, where you will often see an amplifier advertised or promoted as providing 1000 Watts output.

Will it produce 1000 Watts?

Yes and no. The figure is usually the peak power output (or PMPO in audio terms).

Most times the actual RMS output is well below these figures.

So effectively neither of you understood the artificiality of the gensets output rating.

In a perfect world manufacturers wouldn't try to con customers in this way but marketing depts are always looking for an edge.

I'd explain this to your customer and try to come to some sort of agreement.

He needs to take responsibility for not doing his homework before driving to Melbourne (Geez Louise)!

You need to take responsibility for inadvertently misdescribing the output by automatically regurgitating the manufacturers falsehood.

You would win any legal contest but what's the point in that?

Your offer of a courier pickup is more than generous so don't offer more than that.