topic Re: Misery Loves Company... in Selling

Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:31:52 GMT

I'm actually pretty annoyed at the moment, and kind of venting before I contact my customer about this issue so that I don't taint my communication with how annoyed I am (the issue is 100% not the fault of the customer, and I will be relying on their honesty to get a good outcome).

So, feel free to just read and either chime in with whatever, commiserate, or (preferably, lol) tell me you experienced something similar and all ended well. (If, on the other hand you're annoyed that I'm mostly venting and not really asking a question, sorry n' stuff).

Ok, so... My issue is with Australia Post.

A customer in the US asked for a bulk order for one of my items ($140 value after bulk discount), which was required for an upcoming event they were hosting. I posted the order via express courier international, 2-4 days delivery time quoted on APs website ($55-odd P&H, $10 extra cover on $100).

Item posted 24th February, left the country 26th February, then..... nothing.

By the 4th of March, both the customer and I were very concerned, so an inquiry was lodged, first online as it was a Friday evening, but then I called the following Monday morning, by this stage, the package had been in transit for nearly 2 weeks. No information, no further tracking, so I said to the rep, given the amount of time that has passed, and based on your experience, how likely is it that the package will eventually turn up and be delivered to my customer. She replied that it was very unlikely, consulted with a colleague while I listened on the phone, and the exact words used were "they won't get it".

Ultimately, they kept the inquiry open, putting a resolution deadline of 24th March, after which point the package would be officially lost and compensation payable. (I bet you can see where this is going now ).

I related all of this info to the customer and offered 3 options (resend express, resend standard and refund the extra for express, or full refund), they opted to wait until the 17th just in case, and when that date arrived with still no further updates, asked for a refund, which I promptly issued in full, thinking at least I'd get most of it back after the 24th...

Cut to today, 4pm and an email arrives in my inbox....

Aus Post are pleased to inform me that my package has arrived in the US and delivery attempted (yesterday). Oh, and in future, I can subscribe to email alerts so I can be kept up to date on the progress of a package and (presumably) not hassle them as to the whereabouts of said packages.

I know I was looking for a legitimate reason to use this smiley, but I wanted to be amused by it, not actually feel like this:

(I guess if I have one question, it would be - has anyone ever got their money back for postage at least, from AP in similar circumstances? They closed the case, but I sent a message back saying this is so not resolved, and request the cost back in full).

Re: Misery Loves Company...

casbit33 — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:39:27 GMT

i really do feel for you. This is a bad situation that Aust post put you in.

Will your buyer repay you? Are they honest enough to do that? Maybe contacting paypal about this would help. They may be able to convince the buyer to repay you. If not all you can do is keep contacting Aust post for compensation.

This is why I never sell internationally. It's just too hard.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:51:03 GMT

Thanks, they seemed pretty genuine so I just hope they will reply and either refuse delivery (RTS), or if they still want the stuff, be willing to repay (not the postage, I wouldn't ask them for that, just the item price, probably with a discount).

The thing is, yesterday was Good Friday, I had no idea USPS would have been working. They're quite dedicated when it's a missing package, perhaps, especially since if it hadn't been found, AP would have been up for about $150 in compensation.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

soundtraxcds — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:56:26 GMT

Apparently the US do not observe a public holiday for Good Friday like we do here.

Sounds like your buyer is reasonable, so no reason why they won't repay the amount.

Fingers crossed!

Re: Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 11:12:55 GMT

@soundtraxcds wrote:
Apparently the US do not observe a public holiday for Good Friday like we do here.

Facts ruining another good conspiracy theory, dagnabbit!

I managed to cobble together a message that was hopefully not too depserate and pleading, and from my dealings with them so far, I remain hopeful.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

247newdeals — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 12:26:00 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
@soundtraxcds wrote:
Apparently the US do not observe a public holiday for Good Friday like we do here.

Facts ruining another good conspiracy theory, dagnabbit!

I managed to cobble together a message that was hopefully not too depserate and pleading, and from my dealings with them so far, I remain hopeful.

Because of time differences it would of been Thursday 24th in the US

I hope you at least get the item money back IMHO AusPost should, out of common decency, payout on this one as it was 100% their fault not that they are likely to though. I find it funny how AusPost squeezes every holiday they can but make sure they have someone there to email you so they do not have to pay out

Re: Misery Loves Company...

*tippy*toes* — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 12:39:50 GMT

I know with domestic express post they will refund the postage cost if it takes too long. It would be worth finding out from them if it's the same for international. Of course they will blame the US, but still worth grilling them about it and not taking no for an answer.

Have you signed up for My Post? I think the link is up the top of the AP home page. Might be worth it if you haven't. Every time you post something, you give them your My Post card to scan (which they scan after each parcel, so you have to give it to them with the first parcel) and you have full tracking via your computer or phone/device app. The app is still in its infancy so has its limitations, but for keeping an eye on tracking if need be, it's worth it. When they scan your card, it uploads that tracking number into the app. Occasionally one doesn't make it, so you can put it in manually.

If you log in to the My Post website you can set each transaction for notifications. That will send an email every time there is a tracking event. You even get one when it's due for delivery that day and again when it's delivered. There's a bit of a delay in notifications, but it's only like 10 or 15 minutes.

When you post, you can also give the PO the buyers email address, which they put into the system and then the buyer gets email notifications of each tracking event. I've only done that once, I wasn't sure if it was something buyers would want, or whether they may feel it's over the top.

The app will show you when the tracking numbers appear, then notify you when they're delivered. If you've ticked the notification box on the website, it will notifiy you of tracking events. You can set it so you don't get emails as well. I don't worry about the notifications, I'm just happy for it to tell me when they're delivered.

You can add a description of sorts to the tracking numbers, so I put the buyers name and ID and I've just started putting the ETA as well. That way I know who's parcel has been delivered and how close to the ETA it was (all have arrived before the first date). It saves having to go back and match up tracking numbers in eBay to the tracking numbers in the app. It's also easy to see at a glance if you have a buyer who says their item hasn't arrived yet. You can go straight to their tracking number.

It could be worth using it even if it's just for your international items.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 13:06:15 GMT

@247newdeals wrote:
Because of time differences it would of been Thursday 24th in the US

It's actually the USPS site that shows the item appeared back in the system earlier today (Saturday here, Friday there), my choice of words was bad, though - Friday is yesterday to me. It just seemed awfully convenient for AP that suddenly it's found in the final hour, and decidedly the most inconvenient (and possibly costly) turn of events for me. >_>

@tippy, I do have a My Post account and card, but I'm pretty lazy with it. At this point in time, though, AP can try to blame anyone they want, all that matters to me is that I / we didn't get the service that was paid for, so I'll go to the PIO if I have to. Although I don't feel the need to justify (to Aus Post) my demand for a refund, I've spent thousands with them over the years, had my fair share of missing parcels and even a few late (domestic) express parcels and never once insisted on compensation before, this one I'm not prepared to let go.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

*tippy*toes* — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:50:17 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
I do have a My Post account and card, but I'm pretty lazy with it. At this point in time, though, AP can try to blame anyone they want, all that matters to me is that I / we didn't get the service that was paid for, so I'll go to the PIO if I have to. Although I don't feel the need to justify (to Aus Post) my demand for a refund, I've spent thousands with them over the years, had my fair share of missing parcels and even a few late (domestic) express parcels and never once insisted on compensation before, this one I'm not prepared to let go.

It's funny you should say that. I was talking to my local postmaster the other day and he said when My Post was first introduced, hundreds upon hundreds of people signed up at my local. I'm one of only 6 or 7 people that actually use it at that PO! It certainly has its place for both eBay buyer and sellers.

It can be useful for a lot of buyers because they can access parcel lockers (which are only in the city), or parcel collect. Parcel collect means all their parcels are sent to the PO or agency of their choice and they are sent an sms, an email, or both when their parcel is ready for collection. It's especially good for those that live in units where parcels might be left unattended, or people like me where pedestrians can just walk in and snatch stuff from the front door (which has happened).

It's also useful for buyers who work, they can have it sent to the PO closest to their work place. It doesn't have to be their local, it can be any PO in the country.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

soundtraxcds — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 21:38:39 GMT

I usually use the My Post card as ID for picking up parcels at my local post office, and I guess they don't see many as they always ask me my address even though it's printed on the back.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

lane-ends — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 22:32:06 GMT

The bottom line issue here from the buyers point of view is that they didn't get what they wanted. The package within a reasonable delivery time. They could repay you but, but ultimately they will be paying for something they hadn't contracted for.

I guess it comes down to how inconvenienced or useful the item now is, given they wanted it in a hurry in the first place.

I think it is one of those PRE exercises were you can leave it to the customer to offer. Thats probably what I would do.,

I guess AP found it as it is standard procedure to do a final check before closing off a case.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

go-tazz — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 23:56:02 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:

Aus Post are pleased to inform me that my package has arrived in the US and delivery attempted (yesterday). Oh, and in future, I can subscribe to email alerts so I can be kept up to date on the progress of a package and (presumably) not hassle them as to the whereabouts of said packages.

That says delivery attempted,(so was the buyer home?).

They may not have the package or even get it?

So until the buyer actually gets it they haven't done their job,(then the parcel would have to be sent back of course).

They may have scanned it without trying to deliver it within the time frame.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

*tippy*toes* — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 23:56:17 GMT

@lane-ends wrote:
The bottom line issue here from the buyers point of view is that they didn't get what they wanted. The package within a reasonable delivery time. They could repay you but, but ultimately they will be paying for something they hadn't contracted for.

I guess it comes down to how inconvenienced or useful the item now is, given they wanted it in a hurry in the first place.

I think it is one of those PRE exercises were you can leave it to the customer to offer. Thats probably what I would do.,

I guess AP found it as it is standard procedure to do a final check before closing off a case.

I have filed a few disputes over different things via the dispute process on their website. They often close the case before you have even had a chance to respond. You send your issue, they respond and case closed. When that happens, I either open a new case or contact them again via their Facebook page. They are usually pretty good if you contact them via their Facebook page.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 01:36:33 GMT

@lane-ends wrote:
The bottom line issue here from the buyers point of view is that they didn't get what they wanted. The package within a reasonable delivery time. They could repay you but, but ultimately they will be paying for something they hadn't contracted for.

I guess it comes down to how inconvenienced or useful the item now is, given they wanted it in a hurry in the first place.

I think it is one of those PRE exercises were you can leave it to the customer to offer. Thats probably what I would do.,

I guess AP found it as it is standard procedure to do a final check before closing off a case.

When I sent the message, I just asked them to assist in getting the package returned, and didn't mention anything about repaying etc, as I didn't want to ask for money for something they may no longer want and figured it would be better to wait and see whether they suggested keeping and repaying.

It's possible, though, because the original delivery date was for one event, and when they said they would wait until the 17th, that was for a different event (the buyer runs a business, and has these events a couple of times a month I think, and when we were first negotiating the purchase, she bought as many of them as I could supply at the time, saying if they're popular, she'd want more in the future, and also said "we'll try again in the future" when I had to refund - she might've just been saying that to be nice, though). Kind of sucks really, because after the purchase, I bought a large amount of supplies to make sure I could provide more in the future, and it's not a particularly popular item.

@tazz, the tracking is a bit weird, the AP site says "attempted delivery", USPS site doesn't, and just says "business closed", the delivery addresss is a business address, though, so that might be the same thing.

They're going to hold it for 5 days, which I guess means they won't re-attempt delivery? (Will probably have to contact USPS to check) and on this package I had to indicate what happens if not delivered (I ticked return to me), so if it doesn't get delivered / collected, it should just automatically make its way back to me and maybe I'll get it 3 months down the track... It's possible she won't even see my message (even when I was trying to organise what to do once it was lost, there was sometimes a couple of days between her replies, so she may not be checking at all).

Re: Misery Loves Company...

mbselections00 — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 01:55:47 GMT

digi, this is terrible ! And what makes it even worse to me is that you are not a person who gets annoyed too easily - you're the cool, calm, collected member

I've never had a problem with International - touch wood - (well actually I have had 2, but not relevant to this discussion) however I have had 2 local ones - neither of which would be encouraging.

The first one was an Express which according to the Buyer never arrived. I had never added SOD to Express as I'd never had a problem, but Aust Post insisted it was delivered to her address. Buyer couldn't understand how as it was a gated property.

Sure enough I send the replacement Registered (this was an $80+ order btw) too late for the original occasion the buyer wanted it for, hence Express originally, but she still wanted the items - gets carded - Unable to gain access. No amount of discussion got me anywhere with AP, they were adamant the Express Parcel was delivered.

Second one, sent Express with SOD - still under investigation and every time I call back I'm put on hold for so long (around an hour) the battery on my cordless goes dead. I've rung 4 times. I haven't fussed too much, because the buyer did eventually receive her order, but Express was a complete waste of money and Tracking still shows it hasn't been delivered - NO SOD !

Initially I was so upset about this one because it was a brain cancer awareness bracelet, so I think when the customer advised it had arrived I was so relieved - all that mattered was that she received it.

I would be sticking to my guns in discussions with Aust. Post - it was sent for a special event and did not arrive in time for that, so for them to not uphold the Express delivery (2 - 4 days) is just not good enough. Never mind it turned up before the case was due to be closed weeks later. If the customer is happy pay for the items, I would certainly be pushing for a FULL refund of postage and passing that on.

Sorry if I've missed something in original post - am rushing a bit.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:07:19 GMT

@mbselections00 wrote:

The first one was an Express which according to the Buyer never arrived. I had never added SOD to Express as I'd never had a problem, but Aust Post insisted it was delivered to her address. Buyer couldn't understand how as it was a gated property.
Sure enough I send the replacement Registered (this was an $80+ order btw) too late for the original occasion the buyer wanted it for, hence Express originally, but she still wanted the items - gets carded - Unable to gain access. No amount of discussion got me anywhere with AP, they were adamant the Express Parcel was delivered.

Second one, sent Express with SOD - still under investigation and every time I call back I'm put on hold for so long (around an hour) the battery on my cordless goes dead. I've rung 4 times. I haven't fussed too much, because the buyer did eventually receive her order, but Express was a complete waste of money and Tracking still shows it hasn't been delivered - NO SOD !
Initially I was so upset about this one because it was a brain cancer awareness bracelet, so I think when the customer advised it had arrived I was so relieved - all that mattered was that she received it.

Why is it nearly always the express packages I wonder? Every major delivery problem I've ever had has been with express packages. I suppose similar things can occur with normal packages, but when something is required by a certain date, there's more urgency and the smallest hiccup can be magnified, but even still, the number of times I've paid for express and the package was lost in the system for a few days or so, is ridiculous - not to mention costly to me.

Not too long ago I sent a domestic order express, which went MIA and I ended up resending the order a few days later, again by express. The customer received both on the same day, and thankfully she returned the original package - when I got that back at my PO box, AP wanted to charge me for the return.

Needless to say they didn't get a cent from me.

Re: Misery Loves Company...

mbselections00 — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 05:17:30 GMT

Yes, it is strange, I rarely have a problem with plain old large letter - but these days I dread anyone mentioning Express. I used to use my usual large padded envelopes and the PO staff wrapped EXPRESS tape around them, but one of the staff told me the actual PO satchel is better as it's bigger - so now I pop the padded envelope into one of those, but it still doesn't seem to stop them getting lost.

Can't help but wonder if Registered with Priority added wouldn't work just as well, because I've found for a long time now, (before the two tier system started) Registered arrives before large letter by a day or two every time.

. . . . .. . she returned the original package - when I got that back at my PO box, AP wanted to charge me for the return.

Needless to say they didn't get a cent from me.

I should hope not !

Re: Misery Loves Company...

*tippy*toes* — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 05:25:23 GMT

Have you tried contacting them via their Facebook page? I've got the best results doing it that way. They will reply to you with a link to lodge a dispute and ask you to PM them with a case number. They then bend over backwards to assist, even if the case handler has closed the dispute (which they did on me each time). I feel they are more responsive on the site because it's public and they don't want to be shamed, so they do help as much as they can.

I've dealt with 3 different members and they have all be wonderful. I always make sure I put a public thank you on the page so others that go on there ranting can see that if you're civilised, they will do what they can to help. If you don't have a Facebook page, it would be worth opening one just for that. You can always shut it down again when you're done, but would be worth leaving it there idle in case there's a next time. You don't have to use your real name (I don't), but AP do require your real name to discuss the issue with you (a privacy thing).

Re: Misery Loves Company...

englishrosegardens — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 08:53:36 GMT

@mbselections00 wrote:

Can't help but wonder if Registered with Priority added wouldn't work just as well, because I've found for a long time now, (before the two tier system started) Registered arrives before large letter by a day or two every time.

I have the opposite experience - reg'd letters and parcels always takes a day longer than ordinary letters, at least within Victoria (I can't tell what 'normal' is for other states so it's a bit hard to judge).

Re: Misery Loves Company...

digital*ghost — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 11:07:16 GMT

@*tippy*toes* wrote:
Have you tried contacting them via their Facebook page? I've got the best results doing it that way. They will reply to you with a link to lodge a dispute and ask you to PM them with a case number. They then bend over backwards to assist, even if the case handler has closed the dispute (which they did on me each time). I feel they are more responsive on the site because it's public and they don't want to be shamed, so they do help as much as they can.

I'll see if I get a response to my comment on the case on Tuesday, but if not (or I don't like it ) I'll take it to FB, I usually find that a bit hit and miss, but it can't hurt to try every avenue before taking it any higher.

Re: registered and priority, I haven't sent very many letters registered since priority came in, but those have been about half standard and half with priority stickers, and unfortunately the priority stickers didn't seem to have any affect on the speed of delivery at all. They seem to when they're not registered, but non-priority and priority registered letters have been arriving in exactly the same time frame (about 6 business days).