topic Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti in Selling

Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable time

lasernode — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 01:42:36 GMT

Jebus I tell you what, where is my seller protection??? I've had a number of dippers recently who buy items, then read the description and find out it's not what they want, then request a refund, so I do the refund, and then the dipper HAS THE OPTION OF LEAVING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK??? For f's sake come-on, this is a joke... Anyone refunded within a reasonable time should not be able to wreck a seller's reputation. I try hard to maintain a 100% feedback but realisitically, I realise this may be simply impossible over time due to ebay allowing negative feedback to be left for a seller after a buyer is refunded. Yea, yea, i know the ebay chant, "the buyer leaves feedback to reflect their opinion of the transaction", but in all my cases, the buyer has requested a refund via ebay message and saying they bought the wrong item... now before anyone says I should describe items clearly, I have BIG TEXT on the main pictures, and also in THE VERY FIRST LINE OF THE DESCRIPTION and also in the item specifics stating "Procuct type:this type(for example a service, files, whatever)" that clearly says what is on offer and I have done this to try to stop these types of purchases happening but it's a fact of lift that there is a percentage of idiots out there who buy and then read about what they bought(or even better, i have had a number of buyers who have NEVER READ THE DESCRIPTION.... can you believe this???).

So I have done my best to make it clear what's on offer for my items, and then some dipper comes along, buys it, then realises they bought the wrong thing, requests a refund, so I refund them in full within a short time, and they can then leave me negative feedback???

THIS SHOULD SIMPLY NOT BE ABLE TO HAPPEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

padi*0409 — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:27:45 GMT

Errrr, but you don't have any negs..............................ripper rant though.

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

bsal6160 — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:22:15 GMT

the question should be Why do you refund for change of mind? you could simply ssay NO and if neg feedback left then have it removed???

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

lasernode — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:12:46 GMT

Negagtive feedback can't be removed in that situation according to my phone conversation with eBay support. Only way is if buyer asks for refund, then if i do refund and they then leave neg feedback. Oh also to the other comment about me having no neg, i'm trying to keep it that way but a few dippers are making me sweat on it, one actually did leave neg but i put in a revision request and it turned out ok but it won't always be like this... change-of-mind etc buyers who are refunded shouldn't have the option to leave neg feedback, it's ridiculous.

Say this scenario: I buy something, pay for it, then in a few hours say opps i bought the wrong thing, i want a refund, so the seller hasn't posted the item yet and so refunds me (if they are a reasonable seller), and i am now free to leave whatever feedback i like including negative, if i was a malicious buyer (i'm not) couldn't this sort of tactic be used to give neg feedback just for the sake of leaving neg feedback?

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

*tippy*toes* — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:25:18 GMT

Why would anyone bother? Most people would just be grateful that you refunded them if it was change of mind. You're more likely to get negged after refund if it was not as described.

Why stress over something that hasn't happened yet? Buyers aren't generally evil people you know.

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

amber-eyed-girl — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:43:46 GMT

Once I did an oops. I bought something happily, through the cart, then later bought it again (multiples available). Paying for it alongside the newer items. I just didn't notice it was still in the cart.

Seller refunded the second when I asked nicely. I was grateful. Left them a positive for the first item and excellent, helpful seller on the second.

Selling here can be a bit stressful. Try not to make it harder on yourself until/if situations happen. I'm saying this as I used to be very prone to worry what if this/what if that. Not worth it.

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

lasernode — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:46:07 GMT

I know that and yes 99% are very good buyers, it's that 1% that gives me the **bleep**s, for example the last buyer who prompted this rant, buys one of my items (which was vehicle ECU tune files to suit a tuning device), so I message them that I need the serial number of the device in order to be able to write the tune files and also in order for them to be loadable (which is CLEARLY stated in the item description) then for a week nothing, then i get a message from the buyer, "where's my device?". Just have a look at my items, I don't have a lot so it's easy to spot, see the item with the big writing on the side that says "TUNE FILES ONLY"... and also says this in the first line of the description and also in the "Item Specifics"... I mean seriously, how f'rn stu%id can that person be to buy that, and then expect the actual tuning device???

It's a fact of life that there exists, in the general community, an unavoidable percentage of idiots, and there's your proof right there...

Then when I questioned the buyer (nicely) as to what did they base their decision to purchase the item on, I get a return message, and I quote: "Well that is stupid, when are you refunding my money"... This is the intelligence of the minority that by trading on eBay, you have to deal with, and anyway I canceled the order, using the reason the buyer requested it (which they did) and now this minority person, who is obviously a sandwich short of a picnic, NOW HAS THE OPTION TO LEAVE ME NEG FEEDBACK...

Yes, if it happens I'll be on the phone to eBay support as many times as it takes to get it removed, but it should never come to this, I have done nothing wrong yet I can potentially have my rating wrecked by dippers like this, and there have been more than one like this.... like I said... there exists in the general community...

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

lasernode — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:50:08 GMT

Oh just in case you can't find it, it's at this link:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231924062871

Now I ask you, how can that listing be mis-interpreted as to what the item is???

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

imastawka — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:07:54 GMT

Mis-interpreted?

I don't have a clue what it is I'm looking at.

Glad I don't want one

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

lasernode — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:15:14 GMT

Ummm.... lol... look ok it's a particular specific thing which is probably not common knowledge in the general community, I'll admit that, but come on, if you don't know what an item is, would (and should) you buy it? (remember the listing states no refunds but this is actually moot, both eBay and PayPal can and will force it if they choose)...

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

digital*ghost — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:28:27 GMT

@lasernode wrote:
Oh just in case you can't find it, it's at this link:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231924062871

Now I ask you, how can that listing be mis-interpreted as to what the item is???

I get that you've made an effort to make things clear, and they are in the first line of the description, but - and I don't want this to be interpreted as criticism, except in the most constructive of ways - when something happens more than once, it can often be an indication something can be changed or improved.

I'm not saying your rant is 100% unjustified, just that there's a couple of small things you might be able to do to help take the edge off... In other words, you can either keep doing what you're doing and keep getting ticked off at anyone who doesn't pay close enough attention (and there will always be people who don't), or you can make a couple of adjustments and help minimise the occurances if not eliminate them.

I'm mostly referring to the "Tune files only" text in the gallery image - that it's sideways and "tune" is twice as large as "files only" - consider not only the colour choice and orientation, but also the size of that image for someone viewing on a mobile phone etc. I know zip about the device, but if your gallery image is for a product the buyer won't receive, it might be time to rethink that too.

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:23:08 GMT

What are you going to say to ebay when they check your listing and see that it is digitally delivered and so shouldn't be listed on ebay anyway?

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

*tippy*toes* — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:21:57 GMT

Given a lot of buyers use mobile devices these days to do their buying, I can tell you with absolute certainty that majority of them look at the photo only. Rarely do they click on the item description or item specifics. Therefore, it would easily be assumed by those buyers that they are getting the device, regardless of what is written sideways on the main photo.

I listed some small items with a coin to show a size comparison. Some with a 10c coin, others with a 5c coin. I had several buyers contact me asking why they didn't get the coin. I then added to the description that the coin was not part of the listing it was for size comparison only. I still got buyers asking why they didn't receive the coin. I stopped using coins as size comparisons!

Photos should only show what is for sale in the listing. Most buyers are fine, but you do get a few numpty's that are going to carry on like pork chops because they didn't get what was in the photo.

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

lasernode — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 06:42:55 GMT

To: phorum_junkie*
Digital delivery (email) is a second delivery method as well as the device being sent into us to manually load the item (tune files) so I can't see this as being digital-delivered-only-goods because it's not.

To:digital*ghost
You actually make some very good points which I didn't consider so thanks for that, I thinking of taking your suggestions on-board and changing a few things.

To: *tippy*toes*
You also actually make some good points I will consider

To everyone, thanks for your comments as they have been helpful.

But I feel we are getting off topic, that is:

Why should a buyer who has requested a refund due to them buying the wrong item, be allowed to leave feedback (potenially neg) after recieving a full refund, at no fault of the seller?

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

davewil1964 — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:13:22 GMT

Because a cancelled transaction is still, according to eBay, a transaction. Which means feedback can be left. However, as has been stated, you haven't received any negative feedback, so it is a hypothetical point, not something that has affected you. And eBay won't change it, so there is no point sweating it.

I wouldn't want to test a definition of delivery, that entails the buyer having to ship goods to you, in a court. Surely you have enough margin to send the files out on a USB?

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

davidc4430 — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:49:00 GMT

ooh ooh, i know mr kotter, its a flash thingy, you point it at people and their clothes fall off?

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

imastawka — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:51:18 GMT

Here.....use this next time...........

And where's the note from ya mum, Epstein?

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

imastawka — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:53:23 GMT

If what I read is true, I'm blowed if I would send my equipment to a seller

to load up and then trust that I'll get it back.

Not happenin' - Nuh Uh

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

erg-auto-electrical-wholesalers — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:17:02 GMT

I agree,

After refund it should be locked out.

Re: Buyers should NOT be allowed to leave ANY feedback after being refunded in full in reasonable ti

digital*ghost — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:43:17 GMT

@lasernode wrote:

To:digital*ghost
You actually make some very good points which I didn't consider so thanks for that, I thinking of taking your suggestions on-board and changing a few things.

....

But I feel we are getting off topic, that is:

Why should a buyer who has requested a refund due to them buying the wrong item, be allowed to leave feedback (potenially neg) after recieving a full refund, at no fault of the seller?

The reason I chose to make those points rather than discuss the issue of buyers being able to leave feedback for a cancelled transaction is because the latter is something you can not control, you can't even for a 100% successful and completed transaction - no matter how perfectly and professionally you handle any type of transaction, the buyer has the chance to leave a negative for whichever reason they desire, and the success rate of getting unfair negs removed is not wholly encouraging.

You have much more control over the instances where a buyer has the opportunity to leave feedback for a cancelled sale, so I just personally tend to focus on the areas where I do have control.

I do understand where you're coming from, if I received a neg from a buyer who made a mistake with their purchase and requested a refund, I'd be pretty ticked off if I had sorted it for them quickly and politely (I have in fact received a couple of negs and neuts over buyer mistakes - some I've had removed, some I've had to live with for 12 months). So, the first thing I would do is contact eBay and request its removal - I may not be successful, but it's always worth a shot, or two, or five. The point is, the FB isn't necessarily final, so again there's not much use spending the energy on the what-if scenario.

Once upon a time... (if you'll indulge me for a moment 😄 ) members were able to leave feedback for one another regardless of whether they had entered into a transaction. I'm sure you can see the drawbacks of that system, and it was thankfully changed to where members could only leave feedback for specific transactions, however a non-paying buyer could still leave a neg.

The system was changed again to either prevent that via the UPI process, or if bad FB was left for an unpaid item before the process was finalised, it should be removed either automatically or at request.

That was a couple of years ago, so you never know, maybe eBay will remove the opportunity for FB to be left over cancelled transations, but I personally wouldn't hold my breath, because in some circumstances it would be entirely appropriate (this is where contacting eBay to get bad FB removed comes into play - they can't automatically know or predict how a transaction will turn out, exactly why it was cancelled, or how either party behaved until contacted and things like messages between buyer and seller are reviewed. If a seller responded to a cancellation request by swearing at the buyer and said something like "sc*ew you for wasting my time you $&#*#!", perhaps a neg for their poor attitude / customer service skills would be considered warranted, despite them also issuing an immediate refund).