topic Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time in Selling

Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

banter0416 — Fri, 13 May 2016 01:39:19 GMT

Hi I would appreciate some advice. My buyer has received an order ffrom me and contacted me to tell me several items were missing. This is the third time this customer has reported missing items from orders I have sent. I have replaced the items from prior orders even though I am sure they were packed. We tick items off as we pack them. So the picker has ticked them and then the packer ticked them. This order it was checked three times as we decided to make sure the order was right and on the 3rd check we called out item numbers and put a third tick next to each item.

Here's the issue I am having, this customer is my best customer and I don't know how to handle this. I want to keep her as a customer but should I allow this to continue and refund the money for the "missing items" again? The items don't add up to a lot - 2% of the total order this time, but she is stealing from me regardless. I am struggling with the morality and don't know what to say to her. Do I insist that the items were packed and not refund her therefore possibly losing her as a customer - I don't want to lose her as a customer but can I/should I allow this to continue? Next time it might be for a much larger amount. What to say to her?

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

kopenhagen5 — Fri, 13 May 2016 01:48:31 GMT

I would be explaining you have multiple documentation showing all items were packed in the parcel.

Then ask if the packages appear to have been tampered with and if a photo is possible as you will probably need to lodge a theft report with Aust Post seeing as this is the 3rd time. And ask if she is prepared to sign a Stat Dec for the police.

It would be interesting to see the reply and can determine what avenue you should take.

Personally if I was sure all items were packed and parcels not tampered with, I wouldn't want her as a customer again.

That's one option, others may have a more diplomatic approach seeing as you want to keep the customer.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

retailtherapist_8 — Fri, 13 May 2016 01:58:16 GMT

Call me suspicious but is she your biggest buyer BECAUSE she gets away with this every time?

I would indulge her this time as the loss is minimal then do as Kopes suggests and tell her if it happens again you will have to refer it to the police and she will need to fill out reports. I am almost sure she will continue to buy and the problem will magically never reoccur.

Frankly if it doesnt work I wouldnt want to do business with this type of person if they are blantantly stealing from you. I do however look after my best buyers with an extra gift or 2 every now and then.

Best wishes to you 🙂

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

digital*ghost — Fri, 13 May 2016 02:20:20 GMT

Unfortunately, in my categories (craft supplies) this kind of thing is quite common. I have made errors (most of which I picked up on not long after I've posted an order) but it started happening so often that along with keeping meticulous stock level records (so I can see if I have the right quantity remaining after an order has been sent) I decided to start taking photos of the addressed package, with all items that were picked and packed next to it.

What I found was that I didn't make anywhere near as many mistakes as my buyers were having me believe.

Now, when someone messages me and says they were missing items from their order, I can get visual confirmation of exactly what was sent to them, and I can work from there.

I don't ever accuse anyone outright of lying to me (because photos of what was sent doesn't 100% confirm what was received), I just reply and confirm that all of my records indicate that all items were sent, ask them to double-check the packaging for any items that may have been missed, and also ask for several other things such as the condition of packaging on arrival and so forth (if mail has been tampered with and items stolen, a police report needs to be made, though we all know that realistically, some unknown third party is unlikely to open a package, take a few items out, then send it on its way, but when you have proof you sent all items, the idea it will become a police matter can often result in the items being found in the discarded packaging after all).

It is a total pain in rear to photograph every package that goes out, but it means I don't have to wonder or question anything and can move forward more decisively (anyone who messages re: missing items and I can see all items were sent is immediately added to my blocked buyer list, unless something else convinces me they're telling the truth - that happens less than 10% of the time someone cries 'missing items').

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

digital*ghost — Fri, 13 May 2016 02:35:09 GMT

@banter0416 wrote:
The items don't add up to a lot - 2% of the total order this time, but she is stealing from me regardless. I am struggling with the morality and don't know what to say to her. Do I insist that the items were packed and not refund her therefore possibly losing her as a customer - I don't want to lose her as a customer but can I/should I allow this to continue? Next time it might be for a much larger amount. What to say to her?

I want to address this specifically, and separately, and this is just a personal opinion so I'm not telling you what to think or say about this situation, just sharing what I think.... 🙂

I've been selling on eBay seriously for about 5 years now. When I started, I did a lot of things, and compromised a lot, out of "customer care", but over time I realised that it was to my own detriment and I was allowing people to take advantage of me - now, I would rather lose business than accept customers who have no respect for me, and I don't care how much they have spent in the past.

I have a right to be treated fairly, and I firmly believe that each party to a transaction deserves just as much respect as the other. If a buyer lies to me for their own personal gain, how much that gain is to them (or how much the loss is to me) is completely irrelevant, the only thing that matters is that they're the kind of person who thinks it's ok to lie and steal, and who knows how that will escalate over time.

I have no tolerance at all for people who lie to me and steal from me - they are not customers, they are theives. It doesn't matter to me if they stole 2% or 100% of the order, I will not deal with such a person ever again.

Consider not only the immediate finiancial loss of refunding ot replacing the missing items, but the time spent on all the follow-up organising replacements or refunds etc, you'll probably find that once everything is taken into consideration, the losses are a bit higher than 2%.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

davidc4430 — Fri, 13 May 2016 03:19:17 GMT

here is another thing to do.

i see some sellers recycling boxes for reducing their costs. a reused box is difficult to know if its been opened before the recipient recieves it.

i allways use new boxes, tape every along every joint then place 'fragile' stickers accross top and bottom joints.

so if anyone tries to open it before the recipient it'll be obvious.

if all the items are in there when taped up, they are there when buyer opens the box. if not houdini must be somewhere between here and there.

you could put some kind of security sticker onto joins in old boxes i guess so if they were cut it would show.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

pennyforum14 — Fri, 13 May 2016 03:38:42 GMT

A friend and I were chatting over coffee awhile back, she sells here too, and the subject of incomplete orders came up and she told me when this happens to her, she asks the buyer to send photos of what she received and the packaging, and tells them she will check the warehouse closed circuit TV footage and see if she can determine whether a packing error occurred. If no error is evident, she will forward them a stat dec which they will need to sign so that she can lodge both a claim with Auspost and a police report for mail theft. She adds that they may receive a call from the police if they require a formal statement from her.

She has even designed an official looking Missing Item Procedure form outlining the above, complete with an OFFICE USE ONLY BOX with Date Processed and check boxes for CCTV Checked and Stat Dec enclosed (very realistic looking) and she actually posts this along with a Stat Dec form to the customer. She said she has never had one returned and never hears any more about it. There is usually a lengthy gap before the buyer returns to order again, but most do return.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

typhoon4u — Fri, 13 May 2016 03:39:46 GMT

I would refund or replace this time but give her strict instructions about your actions if it happens again.

Don't accuse her of anything. Make it look like you want to work WITH her to solve the issue.

List stat dec, police report, ebay enquiry, paypal enquiry and Auspost investigation. (think up as much as you can).

Say you will be taking pics of the parcel and if she could take pics on arrival this would be a big help.

Say you really want to find out what is happening to these items.

Basically "scare her straight".

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

banter0416 — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:02:52 GMT

Brilliant idea, but how sad that you have to go to these lengths to combat people stealing from you.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

banter0416 — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:09:35 GMT

Thanks Ghost I can see that this is one of your buttons too. I don't blame you at all in fact I agree totally. I lost my business 10 years ago because of employee (mainly) and customer theft and I went through a dreadful period afterwards. I am still trying to get back a decent livelihood after starting again, and it really boils my blood when people lie and steal from me now.

Thank you for your frank words, I will take them on board when I construct a reply to this woman.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

digital*ghost — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:12:55 GMT

@pennyforum14 wrote:
There is usually a lengthy gap before the buyer returns to order again, but most do return.

Kudos to your friend's procedure, more and more of my practices have become along similar lines, sadly. I couldn't let them buy from me again, though, aside from the fact that I take it kinda personally when someone tries to pull one over on me, lying to me, or attempting to lie = automatic loss of all buying privileges from me, no correspondence can be entered into... sometimes I even kind of want people to attempt to buy and find that they're blocked, just so they know that I know, and feel the burn of my knowing, angry glare when that notification telling them I'm not accepting purchases from them anymore pops up on their screen....

ಠ_ಠ

(I don't mean it's a privilige to be able to buy from me in the elitist sense, just to clarify )

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

banter0416 — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:14:32 GMT

Yes I like this approach, particularly the Stat Dec. I have had several buyers over the last couple of months tell me that they have not received items in their orders, when I am almost certain that they were included and this was backed up by stock counts. Time to put some procedures in place I think.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

banter0416 — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:17:39 GMT

Yes suspicious indeed! I think you are right but I wanted to keep her as a customer but I couldn't really accuse her of lying so I just refunded her. No more. Thanks for your help!

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

digital*ghost — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:22:47 GMT

@banter0416 wrote:
Thanks Ghost I can see that this is one of your buttons too. I don't blame you at all in fact I agree totally. I lost my business 10 years ago because of employee (mainly) and customer theft and I went through a dreadful period afterwards. I am still trying to get back a decent livelihood after starting again, and it really boils my blood when people lie and steal from me now.
Thank you for your frank words, I will take them on board when I construct a reply to this woman.

I meant to add this in one of my previous replies, as sometimes it helps, but never be afraid to tell someone the truth (by which I mean facts as you know them).

So, this person has made a claim, and the facts you have on hand contradict their claim somewhat. You can keep things relatively amicable if all you do is list facts in a calm and friendly manner, and in a way that (as suggested above) reassures someone you'll work with them.

If it helps at all, I'd probably start out with phrases like... I'm sorry to hear your order was missing items, as well as very surprised and concerned as this order was subject to several stringent checks prior to shipping. I've thoroughly rechecked all of records and so far have not been able to determine where or how this oversight occurred as our remaining stock levels, order records, and recorded package weight all indicate that all items were sent. (then you can continue on with asking some clarifying questions about what they received, ask them to double-check the packaging, remind them the info is required so that you can continue to improve your order processing etc so they don't feel like they're getting the third degree and become defensive, determine what you'll do if they insist the items are missing and refer to it briefly, but don't offer anything specifically unless / until they reply and insist the items were missing).

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

banter0416 — Fri, 13 May 2016 11:29:24 GMT

Yes I have craft Items too and I have noticed the same thing. Taking photos does seem like a pain in the rear. We use ticks against items by each person who handles the order i.e. the picker places a tick for each item and when they order more than one of the same item - say three, then they put three ticks next to the item as they place them in the bag. The packer them ticks off each item in the same manner in a different colour pen, so we are pretty sure the item is in the parcel. However like your photos it does not count as proof.

I am leaning towards the advice from most respondents here and asking about packaging condition, Stat Dec. Police report etc. That should put the wind up here.

Many thanks

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

justkidzbiz — Fri, 13 May 2016 15:18:03 GMT

Maybe email her and just politely advise that due to several orders having "missing" items could she photograph the next order package she receives before opening it. At least that way you should be able to tell if it has been tampered with, although if she is simply stealing the items she claims are missing it wouldn't be hard to open the parcel take out a couple of items and reseal it, then photograph to show its been tampered with.

it might be worth contacting AP and letting them know that this person has claimed missing items several times and is there anyway they can put some kind of "watch" on her parcel deliveries.

i guess at the end of the day the only other option is send all her orders separately without combining them.

Re: Buyer said items missing from delivery for the third time

amber-eyed-girl — Fri, 13 May 2016 17:16:45 GMT

After the third order, AP should be notified regardless of "scaring" the buyer straight.

For a couple of reasons.

Possibly, there is a magpie in the system at the buyer's sorting centre/delivery chain (unlikely...but...)

AP might like to know they are essentially, being accused of theft, if all items are accounted for prior to lodgement.

Definitely ask the buyer about the condition of the package upon receipt. Also, AP are pretty good at taping any accidentally opened parcels (torn, tape loose, etc.), to show they were damaged in transit and not "tampered" with.