topic Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items. in Selling

Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

sydney-diecast-kingdom — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 02:03:08 GMT

Q.) What is a safe drop item?

A.) A safe drop item is one that does not require a signature and does not fit in the letterbox.

Safe drop items sometimes have written instructions on the package like:

MAY BE SAFE DROPPED. PLEASE LEAVE IN A SAFE PLACE OUT OF THE WEATHER.

or have very customer specific instructions like:

PLEASE LEAVE ON FRONT PORCH BEHIND POT PLANT.

Other items specifically state:

SIGNATURE REQUIRED. DO NOT SAFE DROP. IF NO ONE HOME PLEASE CARD TO NEAREST POST OFFICE.

As of Monday 6 June 2016 all signature items which have a non-signature safe drop option i.e. (SIGNATURE REQUIRED UNLESS CUSTOMER NOT PRESENT) will require a photograph from delivery personnel as proof of safe drop. Like a mobile phone each scanner is fitted with a camera.

I realise that it won't prevent all dodgy posties or parcel contractors from stuffing up but it may lead to many being more careful with delivery as they will have to provide proof of correct/safe delivery.

Not sure but in the same way parking officers now take photographs of illegally parked cars as proof for people, Australia Post customers may be able to ask for photographic evidence as proof of correct delivery. This is just a guess.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 02:12:28 GMT

You must be joking surely.

The average contractor/courier delivers up to 80 parcels a day. If only half of those require a photo for proof of delivery you can add at least an extra day to the average delivery time.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

sydney-diecast-kingdom — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 02:14:14 GMT

Unfortunately you are 100% correct. I'm sure they will be told a photograph only takes 2 seconds. 😉

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

mbselections00 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 03:13:10 GMT

While I appreciate lyndals comments, that is the best news I've heard in ages. I've had too many Express parcels claimed not received, reasonably high value (by my selling volumes) and in each case I must say I have no reason what-so-ever to doubt the buyers. Aust. Post were absolutely useless when it came to follow up and proof, I was quite disgusted actually at their lack of concern and action. They should be made accountable & the photo idea will surely help. (Of course, I then had to replace.)

Admittedly they were Express Satchels sent without requiring signature, because buyers wanted the items urgently and did not want to risk having the delivery carded. Needless to say, I now refuse to send Express without signature - therefore adding to the cost and the risk of non-delivery if no-one home, but I lost 100's$ in products & postage so won't take the risk anymore.

I could never really understand how Safe Dropping could possibly be proven anyway. When I made enquiries, I was told the postie just has to sign as being delivered on your behalf - are you kidding ?

Taking a quick photo probably won't take any longer than knocking at the door & waiting for a response - they could in fact take the photo while waiting, that way if there is no response it hasn't really taken them any extra time and the jobs done.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 08:36:00 GMT

if the scanner, or technical thing-a-me-jig, has a built in camera that logs the photo to the tracking number then I can't see it taking more than ten seconds to half a minute at the most, especially as they would have the tracking device ready when they try to deliver the parcel.

I know that when I go to Bunnings to buy timber I often take a photo of the yellow price tag on the shelf of the timber so that the counter person can enter the FineLine number (F/L) of the timber to bring it up on the register screen rather than having to search through a folder with their timber range F/L numbers (see example below).

Only takes me a few seconds and I imagine it would be the same for taking a photo of a safe dropped parcel.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 08:36:59 GMT

if the scanner, or technical thing-a-me-jig, has a built in camera that logs the photo to the tracking number then I can't see it taking more than a ten seconds, half a minute at the most.

Only takes me a few seconds and I imagine it could be the same for taking a photo of a safe dropped parcel.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 08:43:03 GMT

I have no idea why my post appears twice. It must be a glitch when I edited it.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

mbselections00 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 08:47:35 GMT

Hahaha, when I saw it twice I thought to myself (nah, haven't been drinking), it's ok sir, we get your message !!

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

digital*ghost — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 09:08:42 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
You must be joking surely.
The average contractor/courier delivers up to 80 parcels a day. If only half of those require a photo for proof of delivery you can add at least an extra day to the average delivery time.

Would half of the day's parcels fulfil all the criteria, though?

i.e. Requires signature, no one present to sign, safe-drop arrangement in place for such items.

I actually thought (though of course readily admit I can only speak as a recipient, having never been a delivery driver etc) if they had to knock on the door to check if anyone was home, placing the package and taking a snap probably would take a comparable amount of time to getting the signature on the little device thingy if someone had been home.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 09:22:32 GMT

But how is a photograph of a parcel going to prove anything unless it is photographed in such a way as to show where it was delivered....a photo showing the actual house/address etc.

There is still the potential for a driver to leave it at the wrong address and no-one would know....or a dishonest driver could just take a photo of the parcel and take it home with him.

Photo says delivered....sorry, we have done our job and you (the customer) lose AGAIN.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 09:32:21 GMT

if a driver leaves it at the wrong address then the buyer would know, and be able to prove it, because the photo would not match their physical address. They wouldn't take a close up of the parcel, they would take a wide enough shot to show some of the area around where the parcel was left. A buyer who does not receive their item could then seek compensation from Aust Post as Aust Post would see clearly that the item went to the wrong residence. That way sellers would not be subjected to claims as AP would have stuffed up.

As for drivers taking a photo and then taking the parcel home . . . . they would only be able to do this once as subsequent claims to AP about parcels delivered by that driver would show a pattern.

I can't see any problem with requiring a photo to be taken, and if implemented, then any problems that do arise can be sorted out.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

digital*ghost — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 09:34:18 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
But how is a photograph of a parcel going to prove anything unless it is photographed in such a way as to show where it was delivered....a photo showing the actual house/address etc.
There is still the potential for a driver to leave it at the wrong address and no-one would know....or a dishonest driver could just take a photo of the parcel and take it home with him.
Photo says delivered....sorry, we have done our job and you (the customer) lose AGAIN.

I'm thinking it's more for the benefit of the recipients who see a tracking status of delivered but don't receive the parcel, and assumed that the image would have to contain enough to show a recognisable location, so they could say "well, that's not my porch", in cases where it was misdelivered.

Personally, I always untick the box to allow customers to select safe drop when I choose SOD on an AP parcel, primarily because SOD is the only thing that can ensure it's not safedropped and I would prefer not to have to try and deal with a high value package that is stolen after delivery.

I agree there's potential for dishonest drivers to take the parcel after photographing, but they could do that with or without having to take a photo. I guess this way, they just would have to go to a little bit more effort to stage the theft.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

mbselections00 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 11:08:51 GMT

Any evidence is better than none in my opinion. It would have been great to see a photo of where one of my missing items was 'safe dropped' - when the replacement delivery was attempted, it was carded with the notation 'could not gain access' - well really, where was the first item safe dropped then - on the street ? Still not sufficient evidence for Aust. Post to do anything though or offer any compensation

Since I posted earlier this year that our postie will no longer safe drop (and to the best of my knowledge, no other posties that operate locally do either as I have checked with our local PO and they maintained it was no longer permitted), my local postie has told me she gets heaps of complaints, some quite rude and aggressive as you can imagine, because they won't safe drop. Several of us in the neighbourhood offered to sign requests for her to safe drop, which we had in place with the previous postie, but she said they also were no longer permitted. She says it's not worth their livelihood as long term posties (having been posties for some 25 years), so I have been happy to accept her word, even though I find it annoying as we live on acreage and the chances of someone stealing from my front door are next to none.

If something was left at my front door and I saw a photo of it, providing it was taken from a reasonable distance, there are plenty of items that would identify immediately it was my front porch. And no doubt the photo would have a date and time imprint as well, so I'd know if I was home. Granted it's not foolproof but it's certainly better than a postie's signature imo

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 11:53:37 GMT

@mbselections00 wrote:
Any evidence is better than none in my opinion. . . . .

. . . . . And no doubt the photo would have a date and time imprint as well, so I'd know if I was home. Granted it's not foolproof but it's certainly better than a postie's signature imo

the thing about current technology is that it can also incorporate GPS data that would not only show time and date, but physical location.

I tried out GPS stamping on photos I took on my mobile and it showed the street address (street, number and suburb) of where I took my photo.

If the postie has a GPS enabled device this would also help buyers and sellers when parcels are claimed to have been misdelivered.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

mbselections00 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:56:57 GMT

What a brilliant idea !! Seriously, you should get on to Aust. Post and suggest it because surely they would have the technology for that !!

Problems solved !!

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

k1ooo-slr-sales — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 14:04:36 GMT

@mbselections00 wrote:
What a brilliant idea !! Seriously, you should get on to Aust. Post and suggest it because surely they would have the technology for that !!

Problems solved !!

The technology to tag photos with GPS location is on most smart phones now, and the components are getting cheaper. Think about how much a GPS device cost when they first came out, now most smart phones can be used as GPS devices. I know that when I go to Sydney I use my phone for directions and live GPS tracking.

I think lyndal once posted that courier drivers or AP contractors had some GPS tracking systems now . . . . . . but I may be wrong about this.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

mbselections00 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 14:22:23 GMT

@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
The technology to tag photos with GPS location is on most smart phones now, and the components are getting cheaper. Think about how much a GPS device cost when they first came out, now most smart phones can be used as GPS devices. I know that when I go to Sydney I use my phone for directions and live GPS tracking.

I think lyndal once posted that courier drivers or AP contractors had some GPS tracking systems now . . . . . . but I may be wrong about this.

You are so correct. I still use an old Nav man or whatever it was called from time to time although my daughter gives my husband and I her hand me down phones, so I do have a smart phone, but I'm not one for all the modern technology so don't use it to it's full potential But recently when she had to take me to the city she used hers for the GPS - of course being young she uses hers for just about everything !

I do know a lot of companies have GPS tracking systems in their vehicles these days, mainly / often intended to keep tabs on the whereabouts of their staff I believe, but it would also be very useful for Aust Post to use in this particular application

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 16:01:07 GMT

It is pretty obvious that none of you have any idea of the capabilities of the AP/StarTrack scanner.....or the length of time taken to implement the various functions.

I cannot say for sure that StarTrack and the AP contractors have the very same scanners but they do use the same software so all sections of Australia Post are integrated.

I might add, it is software that has been superseded. When StarTrack was issued with their new you beaut scanners my OH was talking to a Toll driver who told him Toll had given that software the flick months ago as it was unreliable.

The scanners do have GPS capabilities which were activated several weeks ago.....the company can track the parcel, the vehicle and the driver....drivers even have to report when they take a toilet break. Would any of you like to be treated like a school kid while doing your job?

So far the photo capability has not been activated in the StarTrack scanners but heaven help the drivers when it is. At present there is a 20-25% chance that the scanners will not work properly and everything has to be entered manually.....it more than doubles the time it takes to deliver a parcel and scan it.

StarTrack probably has more Signature Required deliveries than AP contractors but they are getting more Authority to Leave (safe drop) parcels. At present when they get a signature they then have to enter whether it is a Commercial premises, Private home or Shopping centre, along with several other buttons to push before hitting Enter to send the information back to base. It can take in excess of 15 seconds for the information to send.....the delivery has not ended with the recipient signing on the screen. Goodness knows how much longer a photo might take to send.

And if the information does not send first time the driver then has to manually download it.

So those of you who think it will take 2 seconds to take a photo of a delivery.....maybe get some idea of the processes involved in the delivery of AP mail before you make stupid statements.

And I might add.....if AP made sure that their contractors were paid on time they might get more loyalty from their workers....more of them may go out of their way to give even better service than they do now.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

digital*ghost — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 17:32:48 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:

So those of you who think it will take 2 seconds to take a photo of a delivery.....maybe get some idea of the processes involved in the delivery of AP mail before you make stupid statements.

Or.... Maybe someone who knows the things we don't know can tell us about them without implying we're stupid for not knowing them, and if questions are asked (you'll recall I did ask a question, which was - funnily enough - designed to get "some idea" of how something like this might affect the driver's delivery times. You could have just answered and clarified, preferably without the insults, but you didn't, you just asked questions in reply (which I answered).

But in hindsight, perhaps it is profoundly stupid to presume Australia Post provides working and efficient devices when they decide to require new functions.

Re: Australia Post to Photograph Safe Drop Items.

lyndal1838 — Sat, 04 Jun 2016 18:52:56 GMT

OK Digi, point taken, but I have been clarifying AP delivery processes for weeks now and it seems that no-one takes the slightest bit of notice. They go off into flights of fancy as to what contractors should do and how long it will take without the faintest idea of the equipment being used.

And yes, the equipment does leave a lot to be desired but that is the fault of the top brass, not the contractors who have to make it work.